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Old 11-23-10, 04:16 PM   #1
wunderkind
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Pedestrian hit by cyclist... and died.

Speeding may be the cause and the man jay walked. Then again alot of people here jay walk.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1809538/
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Old 11-23-10, 05:02 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post
and the man jay walked.
Really?

Quote:
The release said Mr. Chan was hit at 6:30 a.m., but he didn't leave the house until almost 7:30. It says he was crossing the street “mid-block” when he was hit by a northbound cyclist and that he was just stepping out into traffic when he was hit.

Family members said that this part of Main has a pedestrian-controlled crosswalk mid-block because of a jog in the street alignment of 20th, and that their father would never have jaywalked.
"Jaywalking" isn't illegal everywhere, by the way. (I have no idea if it is illegal in Vancouver.)
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Old 11-23-10, 05:18 PM   #3
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Mr. Chan died apparently because of bleeding in the brain caused by a skull fracture.
Why wasn't the pedestrian wearing a helmet? Walking around an urban area, at his age and without head protection, he's got no one to blame but himself. Looks like it's time for mandatory walking helmet laws in Vancouver.
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Old 11-23-10, 05:22 PM   #4
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The article says the pedestrian was 80 years old and lived with his parents in their house. ??
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Old 11-23-10, 05:27 PM   #5
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^^^^
The surviving Mr. Chan lives with his parents, not the deceased Mr. Chan.
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Old 11-23-10, 05:31 PM   #6
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^^^^
The surviving Mr. Chan lives with his parents, not the deceased Mr. Chan.
That's better.
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Old 11-23-10, 06:54 PM   #7
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“All I know is what I was told when I went to VGH, I was told by a nurse that … it was a cyclist going at high speed, going 50 kilometres an hour,” said George Chan, one of Kwok Chan’s five children.
Really, 30 mph as determined by a nurse at the hospital.
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Old 11-23-10, 07:04 PM   #8
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Based on the article, this appears to be the location:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=map+Ma...00986&t=h&z=20

Note how the cross streets do not align.
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Old 11-24-10, 01:34 AM   #9
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That's sad but realistically, it was just an awful accident. No criminal charges should be filed.
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Old 11-24-10, 03:32 AM   #10
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Why wasn't the pedestrian wearing a helmet?
hehehe

Car drivers too should be made to wear helmets - think of the lives that would be saved!!
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Old 11-24-10, 05:37 AM   #11
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That's sad but realistically, it was just an awful accident. No criminal charges should be filed.
If we as cyclists demand that motor vehicle drivers face criminal charges when a fellow cyclist is hit, shouldn't we hold ourselves to the same standard when a cyclist hits a pedestrian?
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Old 11-24-10, 10:27 AM   #12
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If we as cyclists demand that motor vehicle drivers face criminal charges when a fellow cyclist is hit, shouldn't we hold ourselves to the same standard when a cyclist hits a pedestrian?
I'm with you on this one. There really aren't enough details in the article to make a judgement though. I wouldn't hold a driver responsible if a bicycle shot out of a driveway into the street right in front of him, and I wouldn't hold a driver or a guy on a bike responsible for a pedestrian stepping in front of them. I do try to ring the hell out of my bell whenever I see a person who might step in front of me, but if the guy on the bike really was somehow going 50kph (an astounding feat if you ask me), he might not have had time to react.

In all of theses cases what's really needed is investigation and I think reporters muddy that by getting quotes from anyone who'll talk to them. How could a nurse possibly know how fast the cyclist was moving? The guy hit his head on the ground, not on the bike...
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Old 11-24-10, 04:21 PM   #13
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^^^
Exactly. If the ped was crossing legally at a controlled crosswalk, then the cyclists is at fault. But if the ped just stepped out in front of the cyclist, then the ped is at fault. If the cyclist was doing 50 kph in a 30 kph zone, then the cyclist could certainly be found at fault. But I don't know how anyone could determine the cyclist's speed, unless his computer froze at the exact moment of impact.

But 50 kph isn't that astounding of a feat, it's only 26 mph. I can hit that in a hard sprint on my mountain bike with road tires. Someone with an equivalent or higher level of fitness as myself (of which there are many, I'm sure) could easily exceed that on a skinny tired road bike. Pro cyclists average 25 mph over the course of the TDF, and can hit 40 mph in hard sprints on flat terrain!
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Old 11-26-10, 09:21 AM   #14
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A few points of clarification from that article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Globe
The most famous case in Canada is of CBC producer Joan Donaldson, who was hit by a cyclist in Montreal in 1990.
Joan was struck as she stepped off the curb into traffic, a mistake anyone could have made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Globe
She remained in a coma until she died in 2006.
Incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Globe
A Toronto woman died after being hit by a 15-year-old who was riding his bike on a sidewalk last year
The bicycle was being ridden on the sidewalk in accordance with all Toronto by-laws and the HTA. Speed was determined not to have been a factor.

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Originally Posted by The Globe
which prompted a call for bike licensing in the city.
Incorrect.
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Old 11-26-10, 10:08 AM   #15
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But 50 kph isn't that astounding of a feat, it's only 26 mph.
31 mph.

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Old 11-26-10, 11:12 AM   #16
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The speed limit in Vancouver is 50 kph

The Vancouver Sun has reported, So far, police have found no fault with the cyclist

(and almost 10 X the amount of pedestrians die than cyclists, almost all from head injury)
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Old 11-26-10, 02:33 PM   #17
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This is the location shown in the article picture. No crosswalks here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...=12,99.03,,0,5
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Old 11-26-10, 04:27 PM   #18
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31 mph.

Speedo
Whoops, had the conversion program set to nautical miles.
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Old 11-26-10, 06:43 PM   #19
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Very sad. No one should joke about a man's death with snarky pedestrian helmet comments. (don't see a problem with using pedestrian helmets as a point of argument, though).

Just as drivers who may not "be at fault" in certain accidents, but may have avoided killing someone by exercising care and vigilance, we cyclists should not use the bare minimums of legal responsibility to guide our general exercise of caution.
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Old 11-26-10, 10:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Grillparzer View Post
If we as cyclists demand that motor vehicle drivers face criminal charges when a fellow cyclist is hit, shouldn't we hold ourselves to the same standard when a cyclist hits a pedestrian?
For those who do that, yes they should. However, I'm not one of those who believe that every cyclist-car collision is a criminal act.
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Old 11-27-10, 12:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post
Speeding may be the cause and the man jay walked. Then again a lot of people here jay walk.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1809538/
That is sad.

I almost slammed into a jay-walking pedestrian the other day. I managed to see him in time, to slam on my brakes.
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Old 11-27-10, 07:41 AM   #22
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That is sad.

I almost slammed into a jay-walking pedestrian the other day. I managed to see him in time, to slam on my brakes.
Once the fall time change happens, pedestrian collisions jump. Part of it is the weather too. Peds often just walk out into a roadway without looking. Many is a time I've had a ped just cross right into my path. There's reasons these collisions happen more often at certain times of the year than other times. Some people just don't take the extra care needed for conditions.
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Old 11-27-10, 09:14 AM   #23
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I forgot to look on my closet door when I got my bike out for the commute this morning but... I have a clipping stuck on it from an article in the paper after there was some bike/ ped/ car collision.

A VPD spokesman said that there wasn't a bike problem in Vancouver, but there is a pedestrian problem. They get hit, hurt, and killed far more often in the city than cyclists are.
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Old 11-27-10, 04:56 PM   #24
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This is the location shown in the article picture. No crosswalks here.
The article picture is a google streets view of something on the "3500 block". It is north of the 20th ave jog. There isn't any indication that the image is "exactly" where the accident occurred.
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Old 11-27-10, 10:26 PM   #25
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The article picture is a google streets view of something on the "3500 block". It is north of the 20th ave jog. There isn't any indication that the image is "exactly" where the accident occurred.
Stop being a jerk and inferring that I said that is exactly where the collision occurred. The article does say
Quote:
A cyclist was riding northbound in the curb lane of the 3500 block of Main Street last week when a pedestrian began to cross the street mid-block and was struck.
Quote:
The man was in the 3500-block of Main Street when he tried to cross the street in the middle of the block when he was struck by a northbound cyclist in the curb lane at about 6:30 a.m. last Wednesday.
My post provides a link to the street view section shown in the article for BF members to explore street view for themselves.

On the east side of Main Street, E 20 Ave is the south end of the 3500 block and E 19 Ave is the north end of the 3500 block.
The alley pictured next to the Bakers Dozen Antiques address of 3520 Main Street is exactly mid-block of the 3500 block of main street, so my link is pretty dam close to the collision location based on the two quotes in the article.
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