Trying to ban Dangerous Drains...
#1
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
Trying to ban Dangerous Drains...
Sent the following email to a member of a statewide bike advocacy group (The BTA), and a bike injury attorney. I had to break the message up across multiple posts due to the number of images involved.
I'd like to request the BTA's help in getting some changes made to local and state road/building codes to further eliminate the possibility of cyclists and wheelchairists being injured by storm drain grates. There are three types of drain grates that I repeatedly see that have the potential to injure: Square, Round, and Poorly Designed/Placed Rectangular.
Square Grates are often found in parking lots. Some with, and unfortunately many without, welded straps to prevent wheels from getting caught. In the following image, this cyclist's rear wheel was broken when she didn't see it while riding. She was fortunate however, because it wasn't her front wheel that got caught.
That grate didn't have any straps welded across it. Often, I find that welded straps break off and are not replaced.
Combine the wide, open slots with the inability to prevent them from being installed improperly (upside down and/or rotated parallel to the direction of travel), and you have a recipe for injury. I've approached agencies such as Beaverton's Code Services, and am told there is nothing that they can be do (legally) to compel property owners to fix them once they are installed and pass building inspection. I'd like to change the code to prohibit new construction from using square grates.
Square Grates are often found in parking lots. Some with, and unfortunately many without, welded straps to prevent wheels from getting caught. In the following image, this cyclist's rear wheel was broken when she didn't see it while riding. She was fortunate however, because it wasn't her front wheel that got caught.
That grate didn't have any straps welded across it. Often, I find that welded straps break off and are not replaced.
Combine the wide, open slots with the inability to prevent them from being installed improperly (upside down and/or rotated parallel to the direction of travel), and you have a recipe for injury. I've approached agencies such as Beaverton's Code Services, and am told there is nothing that they can be do (legally) to compel property owners to fix them once they are installed and pass building inspection. I'd like to change the code to prohibit new construction from using square grates.
Last edited by K'Tesh; 12-12-10 at 03:11 PM.
#2
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
Had to break this email up to add all the images.
Circular Grates are like the square grates, often suffering from missing or broken welded straps. Unlike Square Grates, Circular Grates can change their direction on their own when traffic drives over them. I observed this happening at the McDonald's restaurant where I took the following pictures.
Other Circular Grates may have a single strap built into them, but that won't stop a wheel from dropping suddenly, and possibly causing a cyclist to crash.
Again, the wide, open slots of this style of grate make them a hazard to cyclists, and wheelchairists.
Other Circular Grates may have a single strap built into them, but that won't stop a wheel from dropping suddenly, and possibly causing a cyclist to crash.
Again, the wide, open slots of this style of grate make them a hazard to cyclists, and wheelchairists.
Last edited by K'Tesh; 12-12-10 at 03:13 PM.
#3
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
Had to break this email up to add all the images.
Poorly Designed/Placed Rectangular Grates come in a variety of styles, which I've named: Latitudinal, Longitudinal, and Wavy.
Latitudinal Grates are grates where the slots are perpendicular to the long side of the rectangle. They are safe when up against curbs, but can catch wheels at ramps or grade level crossings. Such as this one next to the MAX Tracks at Skidmore Fountain.
That grate was eventually replaced, with the grate seen in the following image.
However, the replacement still isn't safe, as it can still catch the small coaster wheels of wheelchairs. Whichever agency replaced that grate would have been better advised to use an ADA safe style of a Longitudinal Grate. An example of that can be seen in the following photo.
That grate was eventually replaced, with the grate seen in the following image.
However, the replacement still isn't safe, as it can still catch the small coaster wheels of wheelchairs. Whichever agency replaced that grate would have been better advised to use an ADA safe style of a Longitudinal Grate. An example of that can be seen in the following photo.
Last edited by K'Tesh; 12-12-10 at 03:13 PM.
#4
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
Had to break this email up to add all the images.
Last edited by K'Tesh; 12-12-10 at 03:14 PM.
#5
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
Had to break this email up to add all the images.
Please contact me if you need any additional information, or images.
Many thanks
I've seen larger versions of these grates along SW 110th Ave Beaverton, I-5 (which IS a legal bikeway), and the Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway. Examples are seen in the next two images.
These grates are installed so that the slots are parallel to the direction of travel. If a cyclist is riding close to the curb due to traffic conditions, and doesn't see the damaged grate, they could fall in.
Wavy Grates are a variation of Longitudinal Grates. Like them, the slots are parallel with the long side of the rectangle, but they don't have straight slots. These next two photos show them and their risk.
They suffer from all the same problems of Longitudinal Grates, and one other. It seems to me that officials feel that due to their shape, they aren't a hazard. This makes these grates some of the most difficult to get replaced or fixed.
My proposal would make it a requirement that no Square Grates, Circular Grates, or the Poorly Designed/Placed Rectangular Grates would be permitted in any new road or building project. I'd add that any future project would be required to have grates installed that are only capable of proper installation. Welded straps would have to be integral to the construction to prevent breakage and loss. These grates would be incapable of catching a wheelchair or bicycle wheel, as they would never line up with the direction of travel. These grates are installed so that the slots are parallel to the direction of travel. If a cyclist is riding close to the curb due to traffic conditions, and doesn't see the damaged grate, they could fall in.
Wavy Grates are a variation of Longitudinal Grates. Like them, the slots are parallel with the long side of the rectangle, but they don't have straight slots. These next two photos show them and their risk.
They suffer from all the same problems of Longitudinal Grates, and one other. It seems to me that officials feel that due to their shape, they aren't a hazard. This makes these grates some of the most difficult to get replaced or fixed.
Please contact me if you need any additional information, or images.
Many thanks
Last edited by K'Tesh; 12-12-10 at 03:15 PM.
#7
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
I think that the pics are pretty compelling... however, I've been going through my collection of photos, and found some more that would have been good to add to the email... such as this:
That's the damaged rear wheel from the crash that lead to the first photograph in the first part of this thread.
Here's an example of what could have happened:
Or in the driveway of a nearby apartment complex.
Or McDonald's
Or on the Providence Bridge Pedal:
I've pulled out over 600 photos of the Good, the Bad, and the Damned Dangerous Storm Drain Grates I've taken over the years. I've titled the set "The Great (Not-So-Great) Grate Set".
Rubberside Down!
K'Tesh
That's the damaged rear wheel from the crash that lead to the first photograph in the first part of this thread.
Here's an example of what could have happened:
Or in the driveway of a nearby apartment complex.
Or McDonald's
Or on the Providence Bridge Pedal:
I've pulled out over 600 photos of the Good, the Bad, and the Damned Dangerous Storm Drain Grates I've taken over the years. I've titled the set "The Great (Not-So-Great) Grate Set".
Rubberside Down!
K'Tesh
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,401
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
The obvious problem is that bike tires are too narrow. I say ban narrow bike tires. Make 3.5" the legal minimum and the problem is solved.
But I figure getting this common-sense law passed may take years if not decades. Until then I guess we're just going to have to watch where we're going.
But I figure getting this common-sense law passed may take years if not decades. Until then I guess we're just going to have to watch where we're going.
#9
Banned
I still bear the scar on my chin from one such grate.
It's amazing to still see such grates in use, especially in parking lots. Those types of grates disappeared locally shortly after my incident, and that was over forty years ago.
It's amazing to still see such grates in use, especially in parking lots. Those types of grates disappeared locally shortly after my incident, and that was over forty years ago.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: western Washington
Posts: 606
Bikes: Stella
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It could be a long, slow process, but you may want to start a quasi-official "notification" process to alert municipalities and businesses to the hazards in their roadways and parking lots.
Create an official-looking form that clearly describes the location (gps coordinates from a smart-phone, and a linked picture, would be good). Describe the hazard - bars too far apart, not perpendicular to traffic, etc., etc. Tell them you are sending it to them so they will be aware of a potential hazard to the public, which they might want to deal with. (on the back, give them some pictures of what they could replace their grate with). Don't threaten them, just "supply information". Play up the ADA side of things, especially if grate could be a hazard to wheelchair users, cane tips, etc. Send copies (as you accumulate them) to your local bike-injury lawyers. Send the originals to the city's or businesses' "loss-prevention department".
Similar actions were taken years ago in New York (city) where the city was liable for injuries if people tripped on uneven sidewalks, etc. -- only if the city knew about it. The personal-injury lawyers hired people to check out the sidewalks and prepared a mapping system which they then delivered to the City as the "notice". A lot of high-use sidewalks got fixed quickly, once the judge told the city that they had to take the maps as "notice".
Create an official-looking form that clearly describes the location (gps coordinates from a smart-phone, and a linked picture, would be good). Describe the hazard - bars too far apart, not perpendicular to traffic, etc., etc. Tell them you are sending it to them so they will be aware of a potential hazard to the public, which they might want to deal with. (on the back, give them some pictures of what they could replace their grate with). Don't threaten them, just "supply information". Play up the ADA side of things, especially if grate could be a hazard to wheelchair users, cane tips, etc. Send copies (as you accumulate them) to your local bike-injury lawyers. Send the originals to the city's or businesses' "loss-prevention department".
Similar actions were taken years ago in New York (city) where the city was liable for injuries if people tripped on uneven sidewalks, etc. -- only if the city knew about it. The personal-injury lawyers hired people to check out the sidewalks and prepared a mapping system which they then delivered to the City as the "notice". A lot of high-use sidewalks got fixed quickly, once the judge told the city that they had to take the maps as "notice".
#12
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
The obvious problem is that bike tires are too narrow. I say ban narrow bike tires. Make 3.5" the legal minimum and the problem is solved.
But I figure getting this common-sense law passed may take years if not decades. Until then I guess we're just going to have to watch where we're going.
But I figure getting this common-sense law passed may take years if not decades. Until then I guess we're just going to have to watch where we're going.
PDX shelled out $100,000.00 from one lawsuit a few years back. I think that a simple change to the text of road/building codes would prevent new problems from popping up. Perhaps even prompt a few of the old problem spots to get fixed.
#13
Powerful-Ugly Creature
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
It's too bad that I don't have any pictures of some of the grates in my town. They're an ancient wavy design, that looks safer than most of the newer style grates in this post. They're wider between the slots, and have more cross bars built into them. Been a while since I've been down a stretch that has one, but if I'm remembering correctly, the slots run perpendicular to the road, rather than parallel.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Interesting post. Luckily, these seem to be quite rare around here. I'm surprised that personal injury lawyers haven't managed to get these totally eliminated everywhere. All it takes is one injury and the town or business responsible could be out a large amount of money (or more likely, their liability insurance would be).
#15
aka Jerome
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado Again
Posts: 1,080
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Going at this issue on a case-by-case basis for public rights of way is what I do. An email with the exact location, the exact issue and a photo to the appropriate municipality's Street Department and copied to the Risk Manager does the trick every time.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,401
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Good luck convincing people in wheelchairs that they need to have large, fat, tires to prevent them from having this problem.
PDX shelled out $100,000.00 from one lawsuit a few years back. I think that a simple change to the text of road/building codes would prevent new problems from popping up. Perhaps even prompt a few of the old problem spots to get fixed.
PDX shelled out $100,000.00 from one lawsuit a few years back. I think that a simple change to the text of road/building codes would prevent new problems from popping up. Perhaps even prompt a few of the old problem spots to get fixed.
#17
Commander, UFO Bike
Thread Starter
Excellent! I didn't even know there was a job like that. Searched online, and Portland does have Risk Managers... Problem is that their email addresses are not included on the website. I'll keep hunting.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Posts: 3,214
Bikes: Tons
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've been arguing with the apartment complex to fix the ones on the drives here. I tried explaining it's a liability issue. They even had the perfect chance when they repaved the drives two months ago. No such luck.
#19
Have bike, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,392
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times
in
158 Posts
The obvious problem is that bike tires are too narrow. I say ban narrow bike tires. Make 3.5" the legal minimum and the problem is solved.
But I figure getting this common-sense law passed may take years if not decades. Until then I guess we're just going to have to watch where we're going.
But I figure getting this common-sense law passed may take years if not decades. Until then I guess we're just going to have to watch where we're going.
#20
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Posts: 542
Bikes: Trek 7.2 FX, Custom Vintage FG
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Let me play devils advocate for a bit. It would cost a helluva lot of money and metal to replace every grate in the country. Perhaps a better solution would be to educate cyclists on the dangers of grates. I imagine many don't realize just how dangerous they are. Those that do, in my experience, avoid them. They're often found only in gutters and in the middle of parking lots, as shown in your pictures, both places most people don't ride in anyway. As for the wheel chairs, they're not exactly going to endo if the user doesn't see one and roll into it. Most people I've seen in wheelchairs have an incredible upper body, and could probably pull themselves out even if I was trying to hold them in.
#23
Senior Member
Contact Bike Portland, or the advocacy group in your area, and find out whom to contact about the problem grates. We have a mandatory bike lane law here, so coming upon one of those grates suddenly would make the municipality liable. Like with bad potholes, once reported tot he right agency, then are then legally liable for anything that happens if they are not corrected.
#24
Banned
The cost of just one lawsuit alone can pay for many drainage grate replacements.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pacific, WA
Posts: 1,260
Bikes: Custom 531ST touring, Bilenky Viewpoint, Bianchi Milano, vintage Condor racer
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Let me play devils advocate for a bit. It would cost a helluva lot of money and metal to replace every grate in the country. Perhaps a better solution would be to educate cyclists on the dangers of grates. I imagine many don't realize just how dangerous they are. Those that do, in my experience, avoid them. They're often found only in gutters and in the middle of parking lots, as shown in your pictures, both places most people don't ride in anyway. As for the wheel chairs, they're not exactly going to endo if the user doesn't see one and roll into it. Most people I've seen in wheelchairs have an incredible upper body, and could probably pull themselves out even if I was trying to hold them in.
My commute takes me past a large regional medical center, and the route used to feature a wheel-catching grate right at a bus stop.
While wheel-chair athletes may have incredible upper body strength, elderly people suddenly confined to a wheelchair by a stroke or injury do not have years of wheelchair experience and endurance.
Fortunately, the first time I stopped to help an elderly woman out of the grate, I reported it to the City, and the grate was replaced the next day.