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Old 10-18-04, 10:59 AM   #1
Portis
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Another Cyclist Killed Threads

Is it just me or is anyone else getting anoyed with the, "another cyclist killed" threads? First let me say that i am not trolling here. I know many will disagree with me. However, I simply don't see the need for posting a thread every time someone has an unfortunate accident on a bike.

Unless the forum community has direct or passive knowledge of the victim, i can't see where it does anything to "advocate" cycling. If nothing else, it probably does more to scare people off their bike and into a car. Maybe we should also start a "killed in auto wreck" thread. Surely we can find tons of stories on the web to fill this thread.

Maybe even a "pedestrian killed by car" thread. Or a "dies choking on pretzel" thread. Fear is a great motivator and often a very valuable emotion. Most of us are afraid to jump off a bridge, that is good. HOwever, more often than not, fear causes us to not get the most out of our lives. After all, there is plenty to fear out on the street when riding a bicycle.

As previously, mentioned there is also plenty to fear in other areas of life. Living is dangerous. I feel sorry for any cyclist killed, just as i do for any human that loses his life for any reason. There is reason for sorrow. However, i debate the merits of posting every "cyclist killed" story on this forum. This causes more harm than good.
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Old 10-18-04, 11:05 AM   #2
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That was close to my point with this thread. But sometimes, the stories let us debate the cause of the accident, which can be useful. If the story doesn't have a teaching angle, it will quickly fall onto the second page and be forgotton.
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Old 10-18-04, 11:12 AM   #3
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On the other hand I think they provide a useful reminder that we have to be careful out there and give us some useful info about stuff to watch out for. They are a bit depressing though but they dont put me off cycling. The only way they will get me off my bike is to kill me.
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Old 10-18-04, 11:16 AM   #4
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I don't know, I kind of appreciate seeing the threads because they help remind me that a mistake on my bike has much worse consequences than a mistake in my car, and I think that helps me be more careful.

EDIT: Oh, I just noticed the two new threads about being killed one right on top of the other. Hmm. Maybe you got a point.
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Old 10-18-04, 11:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggy18
I don't know, I kind of appreciate seeing the threads because they help remind me that a mistake on my bike has much worse consequences than a mistake in my car...
Most bike wrecks result in a skinned elbow and maybe a set of knees. I doubt if the same can be said for a car.
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Old 10-18-04, 03:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Most bike wrecks result in a skinned elbow and maybe a set of knees. I doubt if the same can be said for a car.
well, i guess it depends on the definition of "wreck". my guess is that most of the time, when cars collide with one another, none of the drivers and/or occupants sustains an injury. these are the so-called "fender benders" (in this age of plastic, fenders actually break more than they bend).

if you compare only wrecks in which injuries were sustained, then you will probably see a broader range of injuries, including more catastrophic injuries (decapitations, dismemberments, z.b.), in car wrecks. i wouldn't be surprised, though, if it can be demonstrated that you are more likely to sustain some sort of injury, however minor, when you run into something while riding a bicycle versus driving a car, which may have been what Diggy18 was getting at.
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Old 10-18-04, 03:23 PM   #7
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Yea I always take reservation of these threads too. I guess it's like how people all slow down at the sceen of the accident on the other side of the highway as if to maybe get lucky and catch a glimpse of the gore or maybe just to have something to talk about over dinner.
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Old 10-18-04, 07:21 PM   #8
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This might be skewing a bit OT here, but posting this sort of grim information could serve to invoke a sense of outrage and move bicyclists to better organize themselves and fight for justice and rights.

In the motorcycle world (I'm one of those other kind of bikers, also), there are organizations that demand justice for slain and injured motorcyclists. I belong to and support two such organizations, the American Motorcycle Association, and ABATE.

Now, I am a newbee to bicycling, so I might be missing it, but to me, bicyclists just don't appear as organized as motorcyclists. So.... maybe we need more of such posts, not less.
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Old 10-18-04, 07:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Most bike wrecks result in a skinned elbow and maybe a set of knees. I doubt if the same can be said for a car.
Actually my wife is an EMT and most auto accidents do not end up serious injury. Now of course there are 100,000's of car accidents each year and far more people are killed in car crashes than bike crashes. The overall odds of dying while riding a bicycle are minimal. But I am not going to pretend and say it is safer to be on a bike on a road than a automobile. But I love riding my bike and will continue to do so for 1,000's of miles a year.

Cheers,
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Old 10-18-04, 08:15 PM   #10
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Ranger: I'm guilty of starting a recent "cyclist killed" thread. I posted it primarily out of sadness and respect for a young cycling comrade that met a tragic and needless end. The fact that I did or didn't know the child is irrelevant. It could be me tomorrow. It could be you the next day.

After reading what EastKY wrote, I would agree with you if there was equal justice for cyclists and if nothing more could be done to make the world a safer place to ride. We're far from that ideal. Every fatality offers a lesson that can be learned to prevent another one down the road. Too often the authorities won't prosecute motorists at all ("I didn't see him, Officer..." is the accepted excuse). The website http://bicycleaustin.info/justice/ says it all far better than I can. Ride safe. -- James
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Old 10-19-04, 09:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpsblake
Actually my wife is an EMT and most auto accidents do not end up serious injury. Now of course there are 100,000's of car accidents each year and far more people are killed in car crashes than bike crashes. The overall odds of dying while riding a bicycle are minimal. But I am not going to pretend and say it is safer to be on a bike on a road than a automobile. But I love riding my bike and will continue to do so for 1,000's of miles a year.

Cheers,
I am not an EMT or in any other health care field. However, you will have a hard time making me believe that bike crashes are as likely to cause an inury to the rider as car crashes are to cause injury to the driver. This is absurd!

Try and imagine how many bike crashes occur in a given day in this country. There are thousands undoubtedly. Think of all the kid's that are crashing sometimes multiple times on one ride. This can add up to A LOT of crashes! Yet how many cycling fatalities do you hear about on your local news every night? It is rare to have a local newscast where car fatalities are not mentioned.

I know there are a lot of different factors, i.e., more cars on the road than bikes etc. but i think there is a pretty simple test. If you had to make a choice between wrecking your bike or wrecking your car today, which would you choose? If you choose car, you obviously have never been in a car wreck!!
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Old 10-19-04, 09:23 AM   #12
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I think they serve a genuine purpose in raising awareness. I don't mind seeing them and read them all the time. They help me stay sharp mentally in a way and remind me of what may lie ahead on my next outing.
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Old 10-21-04, 09:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Is it just me or is anyone else getting anoyed with the, "another cyclist killed" threads? First let me say that i am not trolling here. I know many will disagree with me. However, I simply don't see the need for posting a thread every time someone has an unfortunate accident on a bike.

Unless the forum community has direct or passive knowledge of the victim, i can't see where it does anything to "advocate" cycling. If nothing else, it probably does more to scare people off their bike and into a car. Maybe we should also start a "killed in auto wreck" thread. Surely we can find tons of stories on the web to fill this thread.

Maybe even a "pedestrian killed by car" thread. Or a "dies choking on pretzel" thread. Fear is a great motivator and often a very valuable emotion. Most of us are afraid to jump off a bridge, that is good. HOwever, more often than not, fear causes us to not get the most out of our lives. After all, there is plenty to fear out on the street when riding a bicycle.

As previously, mentioned there is also plenty to fear in other areas of life. Living is dangerous. I feel sorry for any cyclist killed, just as i do for any human that loses his life for any reason. There is reason for sorrow. However, i debate the merits of posting every "cyclist killed" story on this forum. This causes more harm than good.
I agree with you entirely, although I have to admit, if I read a story about a cyclist being killed in another news source (which is extremely rare), my first instinct is to post it here. While others have said that such stories can raise awareness, I have to ask this: How many of these news stories that were posted here actually give an insight into how the incident occurred? Most of them just come up with the old "the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet" gaff, then talk about the injuries. Sometimes they might say "The police indicated that (whichever party is was) was at fault", but they generally don't say why or how. I think the best thing to do is simply not read them if they bother you.

Just on fear, I think it is a double-edged sword. Fear can be useful if it's a reminder that we need to concentrate at all times, but excessive fear can be a distraction. I remember lane-splitting Bundall Road yesterday, and thinking about the amount of concentration requried to ride in such a setting. If I start thinking about what happens if I crash, I may well be distracted from the task of avoiding the crash, and that's when cycling (or any other activity) becomes dangerous.
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Old 10-24-04, 08:39 PM   #14
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Here's what my friend Henry David Thoreau has to say about it:

...And I am sure that I never read any
memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or
murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel
wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the
Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers
in the winter -- we never need read of another. One is enough. If
you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad
instances and applications?

It's from "Walden" for those who are interested.
Tom
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Old 10-25-04, 06:58 AM   #15
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I don't enjoy reading about injuries or deaths from fellow cyclists, but I do read them and I think that they, if anything, serve as a learning purpose. If the death of a cyclist can cause 2 others to ride safer and not come to their own demise the same way then I say keep on posting. Like I said, I don't enjoy it, but it does give you a sense of reality.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:00 PM   #16
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If you're here, you obviously ride, if hearing about someone getting killed scares you that much, you've got bigger problems.
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Old 10-25-04, 04:30 PM   #17
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If you're here, you obviously ride, if hearing about someone getting killed scares you that much, you've got bigger problems.
That's a pretty narrow minded perspective. Obviously if you are an experienced rider you know the dangers. To fully understand the internet and the number of hits and reads a forum like this gets, makes your statement absurd.

I would venture to say that there is a greater chance of a prospective cyclist being scared away by these threads than an experienced cyclist being helped.
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Old 10-26-04, 07:41 PM   #18
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Is it just me or is anyone else getting anoyed with the, "another cyclist killed" threads?

It's not just you...but it's not everyone else either.

Maybe we should also start a "killed in auto wreck" thread.

I'm sure you could find anauto group where that would be more appropriate. But more power to you!

That's a pretty narrow minded perspective.

So is this: However, i debate the merits of posting every "cyclist killed" story on this forum. This causes more harm than good.

Now, getting serious...the stories don't scare me. They do help me realize more how to be a little more careful on the road. They do serve a positive purpose.

If you see a title you don't like....roll on by.....
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