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Old 10-21-04, 03:28 PM   #1
HiYoSilver
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Cyclist killed threads - is this the best you can do?

I don't get it at all. What's the point of X being killed in a bicycle accident? How does this promote either bicycle advocacy or recognition among non-bikers of safety issues?

Bicycle deaths and injuries are being tracked nationally. Data is being made available on the web. So what's the point of all these threads about deaths? News Flash- we all are going to die, period, no escape. There is enough pointless scare mongering that we don't really need another source of scare mongering.

Do you really want to read 50 threads a month about a cyclist being killed? Are there better things to do with your time. Maybe getting off the computer and on the bike?

Here's real data not sensationalism. [at least the most recent I could find]:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...02ovrfacts.pdf

Highest number of Motor Vehicle x Bicycle deaths was in 1995, 833 deaths.
Highest number of Motor Vehicle x Bicycle injuries was in 1993, 68,000 injuries.

Deaths for 2002 were 662, and injuries were 48,000. So even with increased population bike injuries and deaths are down.

See table 1 for more info.

Huff
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Old 10-21-04, 03:47 PM   #2
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No one likes to think about cycling accidents, however they can serve a purpose if viewed correctly.

They can be a reminder that cycling can be dangerous. That drivers and cyclists both make mistakes, but the cyclist will always be the bigger looser.

If they are viewed in the terms of objectively reviewing what happened, and how to prevent a future accident, then they are are worth knowing about.

I personally think it is time for cyclists to stop thinking about who has the right-of-way, etc., and start thinking in terms of defensive riding.

Clint
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Old 10-21-04, 03:48 PM   #3
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Maybe getting off the computer and on the bike?
Hey I am at the office.... this is as close as I can be to the bike and still be working!
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Old 10-21-04, 04:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bikepro

I personally think it is time for cyclists to stop thinking about who has the right-of-way, etc., and start thinking in terms of defensive riding.

Clint

AMEN
I successfully motor cycled for 5 years with no accidents because when I started I subscribed to a Cycle magazine which provided a monthly article on Defensive Riding tactics and explored dangerous rider mind sets. It would be great to have regular threads on this subject started on the forum.

The 2 biggest rules I learned are:

1. The guy turning left will not see you. If you think he will, you're kidding yourself. "Looking him in the eye" only means you see him, it does NOT mean he sees you.

2. In real life, right-of-way is determined by vehicle size and weight not by right-of-way laws. It is much better to give up right of way and avoid an accident, than insist on right of way and take a hard lump.

Huff
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Old 10-21-04, 04:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by huffypuffy
I don't get it at all. What's the point of X being killed in a bicycle accident? How does this promote either bicycle advocacy or recognition among non-bikers of safety issues?

Bicycle deaths and injuries are being tracked nationally. Data is being made available on the web. So what's the point of all these threads about deaths? News Flash- we all are going to die, period, no escape. There is enough pointless scare mongering that we don't really need another source of scare mongering.

Do you really want to read 50 threads a month about a cyclist being killed? Are there better things to do with your time. Maybe getting off the computer and on the bike?

Here's real data not sensationalism. [at least the most recent I could find]:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...02ovrfacts.pdf

Highest number of Motor Vehicle x Bicycle deaths was in 1995, 833 deaths.
Highest number of Motor Vehicle x Bicycle injuries was in 1993, 68,000 injuries.

Deaths for 2002 were 662, and injuries were 48,000. So even with increased population bike injuries and deaths are down.

See table 1 for more info.

Huff
Thanks for the statistics. I was looking at some of John Forester's statistics, and I could not find any "death" statistics. He estimated that there were about 100,000 accidents involving bikes and cars each year, but I couldn't figure out what that included. (Being brushed by a car, and being irritated, or a trip to the hospital...he was not clear on the word "accident".)

Judging by newspaper reports, my area accounts for 30 or 40 vehicle/bike fatalities each year, so we certainly have done our share toward the national total.

The statistics in the report you cited include some interesting points. Of the 662 cyclists killed in 2002, 89% were male. That means, only about 70 females were killed on a bike that year!! That might be fewer than the number of women killed that year by lightning. Maybe I need to study how my female friends ride, and adjust my riding accordingly.

Among pedestrians killed by vehicles, 34% were intoxicated. No data give for cyclists...would a 34% figure for cyclists be surprising? Based on press reports, it seems that many/most cyclists killed in my city are killed between 10 p.m. and 3 a.m. Had some of them stopped for a drink, or three?

John Forester's data indicated cyclists are killed at intersections. The cylists pulls out into the intersection, and is struck by a vehicle coming from the side. Or, a car pulls up behind the cyclist, and makes a right turn, over the cyclist. Or, a vehicle is driving toward the cyclist, and makes a left turn, over the cyclist.

In Forester's opinion, if a bike rider understands those three situations, spots the vehicles in advance, and stays the heck out of their way...you don't get killed. Maybe women who ride bikes already had that figured out.

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Old 10-21-04, 09:23 PM   #6
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I think we can learn alot from traffic incident forensics. In particular, we can identify safety-related trends which need to be addressed. If a cyclist is killed or seriously injured, I want to know who was at fault and what preventive or evasive action might have been possible.
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