randya

https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Ma...Hate-Cyclists/

San Rensho 

I've been saying fear drives motorist hatred of cyclists for a long time.

Its funny how he said whenever you write a blog post about cycling, the angry posts just start flying, well look at the posts! While they are somewhat toned down, most are hostile.

Northwestrider

I don't think they hate us, as it is a matter of selfishness on their part. I feel drivers would like to own the road without sharing. If we get in the way, they resent it.
I currently live in Taiwan, where traffic can be quite heavy, yet I have the impression it is safer than comparable area's in the States. Why? I might guess that there are a lot of scooters in use and see us as brothers. In the States I've had things thrown at me ( once ) and verbal abuse ( lots ) even though I was as far to the right as possible or taking the lane, it makes little difference. On the very rare occasion I needed to use a sidewalk, I've been told ( once ) to get off by a pedestrian ( I could understand his angst ) even though there really was no alternative than a side walk. In Taiwan, no one has beeped their horn, yelled, made hand gestures, or any of the displays of anger bicyclists are subjected to in the States. Taiwanese seem to treat us as just another vehicle on the road. Now, I'll let someone else sing the praises of the Netherlands or Denmark. Even in England I've found motorists more tolerant than they are back home. IMO its cultural selfishness, ouch !

mnemia

I think a large part of it is just displaced frustration from how much commuting by car and driving in traffic sucks. The prevailing American myths about cars (promoted by heavy car advertising) are that they represent "freedom", "enjoyment", and "expression of identity". That's why so many Americans claim to love their cars and pour huge portions of their income into them. But that's not what most Americans actually experience when they get in their car every morning: the promise of freedom and enjoyability is broken because of traffic. So that clash between the expectation and desire and the reality creates stress and frustration in drivers. When they see someone on a bike, that not only is another stress for them (since they have to figure out how to deal with driving near them, and they may not know how they should proceed), but it's a reminder of the fact that not everyone is stuck in traffic in a car while they are. And many of them perceive bicycling as a purely recreational activity, being ignorant of the viability of bicycling for transportation.

So add together the overall frustration of traffic, the resentment at people "playing" while they themselves are on their way to work (never mind reality), the fact that bicyclists are a small minority and therefore easy targets, the fact that policymakers and police privilege motorists over pedestrians and bicyclists, the anonymity of the car, the physical size differences, etc, and it all adds up to entitled attitudes and territorial aggression.

randya

Thank you, Madison Avenue

sudo bike

When I was learning to drive, they taught us at drivers-ed that in almost all situations, road rage stems from fear. If someone pulls their shopping cart in front of you nearly causing a collision at the grocery store, what usually happens? Maybe an "oops, sorry", "no big deal", and that's about it. If that same thing happens in a car? Usually results in yelling and anger... because they were scared they were almost in an accident.

I think the problem is we've become so disconnected from the fact that we are guiding a very large, very heavy missile down a roadway at high speed. We've lost respect for that... and that dawning realization only comes back when we nearly experience an accident and realize what the repercussions could have been (death, serious injury, money, etc). It's almost a slightly traumatic realization, so people turn that into anger because that's easier to deal with than the reality that we hold people's lives (including our own) in our hands and driving is actually a very serious activity.

That always made sense to me, and I don't see why the same concept wouldn't apply to bikes...

Digital_Cowboy

Add to that all of the "safety features" as well as "comfort features" of the "modern car" and it's surprising that more people aren't killed on the streets then there already are.

Take power steering and brakes, thanks to those people don't have to "fight" with their cars as they drive. Add suspension systems that make all but the roughest roads as smooth as a baby's bottom. Than there's the passive and in most newer cars an almost active restraint system, ABS, sensors that detect when another car is "too close." Interiors that are so sound proof that emergency vehicles aren't heard. Coupled with sound systems that are as good if not better than what a lot of people have in their homes.

Is it any wonder why some people "forget" that they're driving a 2-ton missile?

JoeyBike

I have no problem sharing the road with cyclists ... as long as everyone is obliged the follow the same traffic laws and as long as everyone is penalized equally for breaking those laws. -Posted by MichelleT

I always love this type or response. Especially given that almost no motorist, at least in the southern USofA where I bike and drive, obeys any of the laws. Roll-through right-on-red, roll-through stop signs, and speeding being the most obvious. If I wait for a red light on my bicycle and lead a pack of cars off the new green light, I am cursed for being in the way (just two days ago this happened). If I run the light so they never see me again, I am blown up for breaking the law. So I (we) really can't win either way. In response to this fact, I have long ago used the Rules of the Road book for T.P. If I am going to be hated no matter what, I am certainly going to do what is the most convenient and safe for me.

If they are stupid enough to ride a bike in traffic, are they really worth saving from themselves? [They] know the risks yet continue this destructive behavior? In the end [they] get what [they] deserve then. - Unknown Commenter

^^This guy hit the nail on the head. When I straddle any of my bikes, I know I am going to war against a hostile enemy. (I can wish it were not so, but wish in one hand - spit in the other - and see which one fills up first.) I usually have camo bar tape or something camo up front on my bike to remind me of this war when I mount up. I know the roads are full of jerks operating heavy equipment that do not know I have rights. They also do not know that they have no God-given right to get where they are going at full speed, with no inconveniences, for their entire journey. So all I can do is agree with him. I know the risks and dangers are real. I launch myself down the road of inconsideracy anyway. If I get steam-rolled it really is my fault. I choose to expose myself to a risk that I cannot deny. Tenfold because of handheld and dash-mounted distractions.

It is a free-for-all out there in traffic. So ride your bikes and stop crying, or don't ride. And if you choose to ride, follow the laws of physics, not the laws of man.

Digital_Cowboy

JB,

It's been said before, I'm saying it again now, and I'm sure that it'll be said again. You and people who ride like you do are the reasons that motorists, LEOs, the courts, and people in general have such a negative opinion of cyclists. And why some in some areas are calling for a mandatory licensing, registration, insuring of all bicycles and testing of riders.

You and those who ride like you do are not doing anything to help to improve the negative image that people have of cyclists. They look at you and how you ride and assume that all cyclists ride like that, so all cyclists need to be kept from the roads. You and those who ride like are not doing cycling any favors. You are however perpetuating the image that cyclists are just scofflaws who do not give a damn about anyone but themselves.

JoeyBike

Exactly correct. Are you going to climb into my casket with me if I get killed obeying the law?

You are correct that my riding style makes a difference in how cyclists are viewed, but in my community, right now, big changes are being made partly in response to my videos and Weblog. I have always been fairly well known in the "straight" cycling community in New Orleans. My Weblog called "How to Start a Revolution in an Unfriendly Bicycle City" also got noticed. And by trade I am an Efficiency Expert and consultant. I am talented at figuring things out. New Orleans is just beginning a huge push to make us a cycling destination. But they have few clues how to pull it off. I have plenty of clues.

The result of all these things has allowed me to water down my Weblog, and bury the videos. Phase one of my project is complete (the slap them in the face for three freaking years to get some attention). I have just completed a printable or hand-held device friendly bicycle map of New Orleans. I have also mapped surrounding ares out to more than 100 miles from New Orleans. The snowball has just started rolling down the hill. I am pretty excited about the whole thing. And I am not writing this from jail. Somehow, there was value in how my friends and I get across town by bicycle quickly, smoothly, and without slowing down motor vehicles.

I tried to help the Regional Planning Commission twenty years ago. Head....meet wall. When they told me they were not interested in REMOVING auto lanes from any roads, I told them to call me when the engineers realized that it was necessary. I could not help them. Guess what's happening now?

So you will be happy that the videos are now underground. Still accessible to those riders who "starred" in them and some friends by password access, but no longer public. And my Weblog has been toned down a tad. But the revolution has started, and I am really happy.

Cheers Bro!

San Rensho 

You are so wrong. Your logic is that car drivers hate cyclists because we don't follow the rules. If your logic were valid, then car drivers would want to murder every other car driver out there because car drivers by far violate more laws than bicyclist do and are a much bigger danger to a driver than is a cyclist.

No, many car drivers just have an irrational hate for cyclist. I happen to think it's because they fear us. Other people have different theories. But once car drivers hate cyclists, they will use any excuse to justify their hatred, in this case, that bicyclists violate the road.

jfmckenna

Stragne, I don't fear cyclists when I am driving down the road. I just give them plenty of space and pass them whats the big deal?

Flying Merkel

I have a theory that motorists hate bicyclists because they are afraid some day they will have to become one.

sggoodri

Why obsess about finding a single reason? There are many.

Some motorists are jealous that cyclists seem to get away with taking liberties with traffic controls and laws that delay the motorists. Some feel frustrated by being delayed by cyclists' slower speeds on the roadway. Some are afraid or frustrated by unpredictable things that some cyclists do in traffic. Some are worried that their own fallibility may cause harm to a vulnerable cyclist.

Lawfully and predictably operating cyclists desire to limit the number of reasons to one set; Scofflaws who try to stay away from motorists attempt to limit the reasons to another set. I think that education and enforcement campaigns that address actual, common collisions, and the laws for both groups that would prevent them, while sticking up for cyclist's rights, are one part of the solution.

I personally have no hesitation about violating the social taboo about traveling slowly while in control of a travel lane, when doing so serves my needs, but I avoid violating the social contracts applicable to stop signs, red lights, and related traffic queues. I'd rather limit the complaints about me to just one issue, the one the state law handles very well. It's also one the government could address by adding width to the road, if they care to. If motorists want passing facilities, they can ask their civil servants for them.

njkayaker

Hmm, traffic fatalities have declined over many years as the number of people and drivers and miles-driven have all increased.

Maybe, the "'safety features' as well as 'comfort features' of the 'modern car'" aren't actually real problems. (Note that there is evidence that cell-phones/texting are problems.)

njkayaker

I think drivers "fear" cyclists because they are unfamiliar. It's easier for drivers to wish them to go away than it is to learn how to deal with them. Cyclists behave (not talking about illegal stuff) in ways that appear erratic to drivers (an appearance that is enhanced by cyclists being relatively rare on the roads).

njkayaker

Apart from speeding, I don't think there is any evidence to support this claim.

mnemia

Or maybe traffic fatalities would have declined much MORE than they did if it weren't for all the "comfort features". Perhaps what has happened is just that cars have gotten safer while drivers have become more unskilled and distracted, and the safety increase from safer cars outweighed the safety decrease from behavior. There is no way to know from aggregate statistics, although I'll note that I HAVE seen some numbers that would indicate that traffic fatalities have decreased more in many other developed countries than they have in the United States. Why exactly that is is a very complex question, and it would take a lot of detailed analysis to hazard a good guess. But one hypothesis is that cars have gotten safer everywhere, but drivers have gotten worse in the U.S. than they have in other countries.

Digital_Cowboy

That is one of the most asinine questions I've ever heard. No, I am not going to climb into your casket with you, nor based on how you ride am I going to shed a tear for you. As with your running of red lights/stop signs, weaving in and out of traffic you will have contributed greatly to your own demise.

Given what I've seen in your videos I find it hard to believe that you're having a positive effect on cycling in New Orleans.

I'm sure that you know that once you post something to The Net that it is out there forever. It is archived at the very least by various search engines. Do not be surprised if somewhere down the road one of your videos resurfaces and bites you in the ass.

I'm sure that you know that most people have a very hard time excepting change even when it is shown to benefits them. They'll turn to the tried and true "but that's the way we've always done it, and it's always worked so why change?"

As I've said before once posted to The Net they're out there for someone to find forever. And they will come back to bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

Digital_Cowboy

I'm guessing that you've been living under a rock and haven't heard about road rage. And how drivers have attacked each other with murderous rage after getting cut off, even at imagined slights. Road rage has been responsible for countless attacks.

I agree, and I think that they "fear" us because they're afraid of what we represent. And that somehow we reminders of what might be to come if steps are not taken.

San Rensho 

Observe any four-way intersection with stop signs for five minutes when there is little traffic. Then try to tell me that if a car approaches the intersection and doesn't have to yield the right of way to another car, that the car will make a complete, no tire revolution stop at the stop sign. Doesn't happen. Maybe in Mayberry RFD, but here in Miami, nobody makes a full stop at a stop sign, or to make a right turn on red, if there is no traffic. So is there any rational reason to explain why car drivers get so upset when cyclists do the same thing that car drivers do?

njkayaker

Yes, this hypothesis could be true. The problem is that there is no evidence to support it.

This means that the safety equipment isn't the cause of more accidents! That is, this statement supports my criticism.

These people are driving the same sorts of cars as people in the US are!

I'd have to see the data that indicates that drivers in the US have gotten worse than they have in other countries.

njkayaker

It's appears to be uncommon where I live. Anyway, your guesses of the statistics aren't as good as the actual statistics.

mnemia

You're right; there isn't. I'm just arguing with the idea that we can conclude that all the comfort features have no negative effect on safety because fatalities have decreased. My point was just that it's possible for it to simultaneously be true that fatalities decrease while comfort features increase the incidence of poor driving behavior. We can't just conclude that there is no harm because the number of fatalities decreased, because the fatality rates are influenced by many factors, both measured and unmeasured.

No, it doesn't mean that, and no it doesn't support your criticism, necessarily. The safety equipment could be passively increasing vehicle safety while ALSO influencing driver behavior in a negative way. Thus, it could be blunting some of its own effectiveness in the real world through risk compensation. It's entirely possible that the safety equipment would have saved even MORE lives if it weren't for the risk compensation and decrease in driver attention, but that it still saved some lives. We just don't know for sure from these large aggregate statistics.

Yes, which would indicate that some other factors could be involved, as I said. Different laws, cultural differences, different infrastructure, different driver behavior...there are many possibilities. That doesn't mean that risk compensation isn't happening. It could just be that unrelated factors influencing safety differ by country.

I don't have this readily available. Anyway, all I was referring to was differences in the rate of change in fatality rates, not anything about driver behavior. I was just speculating that this could have to do with driver behavior, since the cars would be similar.

njkayaker

I was criticizing somebody's comment that they were definitely the cause of harm!

That is a claim that is contradicted by the fact that fatalities have declined while population and drivers and miles-driven have all increased!

I wasn't making that conclusion.

"Could be", "could be". Sounds like you are guessing.

Where is the data that says that drivers are becoming "more unskilled and distracted"??

You are guessing. This "could be" true! And it "could be" false.

Yes, and it also doesn't mean that it is happening!