Digital_Cowboy

You're not the only one. To truly be a pedestrian all a cyclist has to do is dismount and walk their bicycle. Simple as that. If one is in such a hurry that they have to pass a stopped school bus taking on or dropping off students then dismount and walk around the bus.

noisebeam

There are other options if one is in a hurry or to mitigate/prevent being in a hurry, for example:
1. Find a different route without any or as many school bus pick/drop points. Often these have fewer intersections as well.
2. Leave ~5min earlier. This can lessen the need to be in a hurry and can also more importantly get one out of the window of 'school bus' time.
3a. Go a little faster to make up for the slowing & stops.
3b. Go a little slower to get on a different light cycle than the school bus. (if applicable)
4. Pass the school bus as it is slowing for the stop (if legal and safe which it may not always be, consider children may be running to cross street to catch bus as it is slowing)
5. Pass the school bus before it starts after a stop, just after it's stop lights/signs are de-activated. (again when safe and legal to do so and assuming you are not going to immediately get in way of school bus)
6. Consider that using the draft of a school bus to start after the stop and gain a bit of speed before it starts going faster than you can may make up for all or some the time it takes to wait for it or make up for the time it takes to dismount, pass and remount.

I have found that doing some of these has made stopping & waiting for school buses for the rare times I now need to a non issue for me.

Digital_Cowboy

All good points. If one stops and looks there are always options available other than breaking the law. If one chooses to break the law than they need to be prepared to answer for that.

And as you said just going one block in one direction or the other is probably all it'll take to avoid the school bus in question. As well as leaving 5 minutes earlier (or later) will also usually help one to avoid a school (or city) bus.

unterhausen

I can't imagine going around a stopped school bus on my bike. But on the road we live off of there are a batch of families that drive their kid to the end of the driveway and the kid doesn't get out of the car until the bus is good and stopped. Then they have to find their books, ipod, telephone, coat, hug their parents, say goodbye to the dog, and then it takes a few seconds to figure out they have to get out of the car. They probably wonder why people are so desperate to pass the bus. I pass a city bus fairly regularly on my commute. But I go straight at the end of the block and they turn left.

momule

This is such a no brainer for me that I haven't taken the time to read all six pages of various rationalizations for breaking the law. We have a very strong bike advocacy population in my community here and also a strong population of pickemup truck drivers who are against sharing the road. The only way for us as bikers to survive (sometimes literally), and to be able to use the road with the motor traffic is to respect the rights of drivers to the best of our ability by following the same laws that they must adhere to.

Specifically concerning passing school busses, I would point out to all, if it has not already been said, that school busses are filled with potential future bikers who are impressionable and learn from other's examples. If they see us out on the road acting like idiots it only tells them that they can too. By the way, I love the thought that by getting off a bike and walking it we turn immediately from bikers to pedestrians.

I'm a hybrid rider and ride for pleasure and not competition. Therefore I have no need to ride fast and actually riding fast, while fun at times, is counterproductive to why I ride. If I'm going fast and working hard I miss moments along the way just as if I was driving past in a car.

It sure would be easier if everyone would just settle down and leave a little bit of room for the other guy but I guess that isn't the way the world works.

noisebeam

Yes, those children are learning what cyclists do as they are looking out the window. So is the school bus driver, it is possible they will not be as likely to return the respect to a cyclist who doesn't respect the law. They probably shouldn't think this way, but human nature is complicated.

Also stopping at crosswalks or for school buses is communiation to other drivers who should stop as well. If I see someone crossing at a crosswalk while I am cycling I stop for them, even if I could pass by without me being the immediate safety concern. I stop not just because it is law, but because the motorist behind me will be more likely to stop if I do to, which will help keep the pedestrian safer.

jjermzz

It was a city bus in 92, So it was suggested that kids cross the street from the rear of the city bus. The reason being some kids are so small/young that the the bus driver, at times, are obstructed by the steering wheel and console. City buses don't have the safety bar that pull out 5 ft. This bar thats installed on school buses force kids to cross 5 ft in front of the bus. Kids that used city buses with flat front would be within armslength of the bus. Now if you have a short kid who's to know if he crossed already if the driver can't see him.

I was hit because I always looked first before crossing the street for my two younger sisters and two other kids. So I would always take a step forward and pop out my head out. I was hit, I realized that from what ever angle or vehicle your in, nobody can see what at the opposite side of a bus.

Now for the jerk that doesn't obey the school bus stop sign think about the kids man. Their so small and fragile. Don't hit'em with your bike. Then they'll grow up to be bike haters and when they get their drivers license and a biker will pay.

Digital_Cowboy

+100

himespau 

+1.

If you don't want to do this Stop, then find an alternate route so you're no longer behind the bus. It's really quite simple.

jputnam

School children can easily be maimed or killed by a "very light vehicle" such as a bicycle.

The laws on stopping for school buses are intentionally Draconian, meant to eliminate any chance of self-serving justifications for why the law shouldn't apply to Mr. Special, even if Mr. Special is convinced that the legislature simply overlooked his type of vehicle. (Hint: Legislatures routinely make distinctions among motor vehicles, vehicles in general, and special classes of vehicles like bicycles, personal mobility devices, mopeds, etc. Had your Legislature wanted to exempt bicycles from stopping for school buses, it could certainly have done so. The lack of such an exception is more likely a sign of legislative intent than of legislative oversight.)

The notion that individuals should be free to consider themselves above the law at their own discretion is clearly impractical, since laws that can't be enforced are no longer laws.

adamtki

Following the law and following morals are two different things.

Whoa, personal attacks in a debate? Don't you just love the Internet? All we're talking about is whether it's really safe or not to bike past a stopped school bus, and somehow you can generalize a person's character from a decision from a single scenario which I'm sure both sides are picturing differently to justify their point?

In any case, as I have stated before, there are two aspects of this topic. Is it breaking the law and is it unsafe? Yes, it's breaking the law so we should follow it. And, IMO, no it's not unsafe. If it were, please demonstrate with your actions. Thou shalt never bike past anyone under 18 within 50 feet. Or even, thou shalt never bike past anyone under 12 within 20 feet.

It's not as unsafe as you think. People bike past kids all time, at parks, schools, malls, sidewalks, etc... Kids are unpredictable everywhere, not just when they get off of school busses! Now if people drove past kids all the time, it'd be quite dangerous! But people are ok with bikes because common sense says that bikes are nowhere as dangerous as cars are to kids.

njkayaker

Yes, they are different things but the point of the law is to enforce the same behavior regardless of the variations in morals people.

And since you are talking about morals, it's immoral to disregard laws that you find inconvenient (doing that is selfish!)

No, it's not actually a personal attack. I'm actually criticizing your argument. Your argument is a selfish one because you only see one side of the issue.

You aren't really looking at both sides of the issue. You are looking at it from your side only.

That is, looking at the other side, there might be a general benefit to the school bus driver not having to worry about whether random people on bicycles are going to be careful enough.

There is no way for the school bus driver to determine whether you (or anybody) will be safe. It's nearly impossible for the school bus driver to determine whether you (or anybody) is passing at the legal speed. It's unreasonable for the school bus driver to have to determine whether how many moving cyclists they should have to worry about.

The school bus driver can easily determine whether you are stopped or not. And, because the law requires everybody to stop, if the school bus driver happens to not see you, there's a higher probability that you will be stopped anyway (assuming if people have the moral fortitude to adhere to the law).

Instead, you are requiring the school bus driver to do more work so that things are more convenient for you. That's selfish!

Your argument here is flawed.

Nothing is ever truly "safe": things are either more safe or less safe compared to something else.

It is clearly safer to have everybody stop.

You keep talking about how safe you are. You keep ignoring the fact that unsafe people say the same thing!

You haven't indicated how the school bus driver is supposed to figure out that you are safe enough and why they should even have to do that.

A school bus driver, doing their job, is going to be looking around to verify that there are no moving vehicles. To do that, they don't have to use magic to determine whether a moving vehicle is "safe" or not.

The problem is that it is not as safe as you think (and your only real justification for doing it is because it is inconvenient for you!).

People DRIVE past "kids all time, at parks, schools, malls, sidewalks, etc." You are arguing that cars should not have to stop for school buses either.

And you know that cyclists are harder to see and notice! And the idea is to reduce the likelihood of any collision not just "dangerous" ones.

Chris516

no

adamtki

Need I say more?

The stop sign is mainly for the kids and so is this topic. I'm talking about school buses, not any bus. People bike past public buses all the time. If you want to be selfless, then stop behind every public bus and start yelling at everyone who bikes past it cause they're all selfish.

You mean we must always choose safer in every situation? That sounds a little too idealistic. Safe is not only relative, it's also a balance with practicality. It is clearly safer to stop cycling whenever you approach a child whether it be on the sidewalk, playground, MUPs, or in the neighborhood streets playing ball. But who stops until the kids are cleared out giving you a 50 ft radius? If you do this, at least you get credit for practicing what you preach.

Reread that part please. I don't get how you got this from what I wrote.

I think you need to relax a little. Go for a kayak ride. You may not see it, but you're starting to attack the poster rather than the posts. I'm just posting to hear other people's viewpoint on this and debate a few points if I don't agree. It looks like we exhausted the topic anyway so no need to keep this bantering going on.

njkayaker

I said school bus over and over.

No, the you have to follow the law in every situation. You can use your arbitrary assessments of what is safe to pick and choose laws you find inconvenient.

A major point of traffic laws is not to have to rely on people generally poor abilities to make safe choices.

It's not "impractical" to stop (and it's the law too).

Cars drive by kids all the time safely. More cars pass kids safely than bicycles do (because there are many more cars). By your argument, cars should not have to stop either!

Many more people manage to drive by kids all the time. Therefore, it should be "safe enough" not to have cars stop too. That's not as "unsafe" as you think!

You are complaining about being inconvenienced. Your life won't be ruined by stopping!