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  1. #226
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    So, I guess you think it's OK to weave or ride unpredictably on group rides. It also seems that you would not point out any hazards to other people in the group or help people out who are having problems.
    you're going off the deep end here and confusing competence and courtesy with cooperation.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  2. #227
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    I have done a number of rides with the bicycle club of philadelphia. They are always looking for leaders of ride. Why don't I do it? I am tired of being a leader all the time. Sometimes it would be nice to just follow along and not have to have the responsibility.

    I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me).

    Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
    Bolding mine.

    Seems fair. A almost always stop to be sure someone stopped is Ok. 99% of the time they are. If it is someone I know I may stay stopped and ride with them til the regroup next regroup point.

    BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different.

    Oh and stopping for someone who is glad for the help and/or company makes me feel good. Stoping for someone who feels entitled to help created a rather different feeling.

  3. #228
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    perhaps that is one of the differences between her (women) and us (men) that is relevant to the OP - we (men) can go out on a ride by ourselves in relative peace, women, sadly, not so much (generally speaking).
    I remember one ride where I was less than 30 feet behind a woman who was harrassed. Even a brute like me being close was not enough. I'd bet it would not have happened if I was right next to her.

  4. #229
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Bolding mine.

    Seems fair. A almost always stop to be sure someone stopped is Ok. 99% of the time they are. If it is someone I know I may stay stopped and ride with them til the regroup next regroup point.

    BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different.

    Oh and stopping for someone who is glad for the help and/or company makes me feel good. Stoping for someone who feels entitled to help created a rather different feeling.
    Bingo. It isn't that I ever really mind doing the activities involved with the responsibility, it is just that having that responsibility of work, home, and children can be draining. And women, who are mothers know full well what that feeling is like. Even though men help out so much more than they ever did, for the most part most men are seen as helping out rather than the full time parent. How often do I hear men referring to caring for their children for a couple of hours alone as babysitting? Too often. No woman on the planet would view it like this. I have yet to see a family where the dad had the primary duties and the woman was the helper. I am sure it exists, but it sure isn't common. And now, women have all the same responsibilities at work too. It is just too much to try to do it all. Something has to give. And if that is leading a cycling group...well then so be it.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  5. #230
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    I remember one ride where I was less than 30 feet behind a woman who was harrassed. Even a brute like me being close was not enough. I'd bet it would not have happened if I was right next to her.
    So I guess your manly spandex wasn't as threatening as you had hoped?
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    you're going off the deep end here and confusing competence and courtesy with cooperation.
    It's still cooperation.

    And some people (especially starting out) don't get the "riding in a group" thing at all (even while otherwise being "competent" and "courteous").
    Last edited by njkayaker; 07-15-11 at 02:31 PM.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.
    Yes, some groups over-do that.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different.
    If you are benefiting from being in a club, contribute something, sometime. It doesn't have to be being a ride leader.

  9. #234
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.
    In the groups I rode with car back was the most common, but it wasn't overdone. In fact the times where it was most common was with remote start rides just after the start. When we had just pulled out in a group of 50-100 riders and were on a 2 lane minimal shoulder road and would be taking up enough of the road to make safe passing impossible. But were still a long enough line that those in front could easily not hear a car behind.

    Other than that the main call was either stopping or rolling when coming to a light that was changing.

    And of course far too often 2 riders would call out at the same time, and not the same call.

    I think calling out unexpected things can be worthwhile. Car back when there is a car that is waiting behind to pass or broken glass on a road that has been pristine for miles. But many groups do seem to overdo it. And only a fool thinks everythgni will get called out. For the really importnat things all you get is an explicitive.

  10. #235
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    So I guess your manly spandex wasn't as threatening as you had hoped?
    More they underestimated the speed of the fat guy in spandex. Some fools don't realize us big guys can go pretty fast on the flats, still it is hard to run down a car.

    Honestly even the skinniest scrawney guy is enough to stop harassment before it ever starts, as long as he is right there. The biggest meanest guy you can imagine is no tenough if he is 20 feet away.

  11. #236
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    More they underestimated the speed of the fat guy in spandex. Some fools don't realize us big guys can go pretty fast on the flats, still it is hard to run down a car.

    Honestly even the skinniest scrawney guy is enough to stop harassment before it ever starts, as long as he is right there. The biggest meanest guy you can imagine is no tenough if he is 20 feet away.
    Fat guy in spandex huh?

    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  12. #237
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Fat guy in spandex huh?

    I'm calling myself big from now on. On the fat scale I have been dwarfed.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    So have you called her excuses for not commuting lame and challenged her to prove them?


    If you still have your huevos intact, I don thin so, Lucy!
    We challenge each other all the time and call each other on the BS we each spew. It's called being honest with one another. One thing both of us despise is laziness and excuses. I'm not saying you don't have that kind of dynamic in your relationship, but we certainly do. And no, it doesn't always lend towards an easy and non-confrontational existence. But at least we push each other to be the best we possibly can in any given situation.

  14. #239
    Senior Member hshearer's Avatar
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    Getting back to the harrasment thing, it does happen, and it can be off-putting. I double-flatted once in a downtown area. Walking my road bike, I got a few whistles, etc. That, I don't mind too much, since it's pretty harmless, and there were lots of people around.

    But I think even the most fearless women (and I'd say I'm one) experience feelings of caution in certain situations. It's not a nice feeling, but we grow up being taught to be cautious. I was once riding an isolated rural trail, and I passed a couple young guys sitting beside the trail on their home-made motorized mountain bikes. A few minutes later, I heard them coming up behind me. I started to wonder if something bad was about to happen, like maybe just a slap on the bum as they passed, maybe worse, and so I watched my mirror very closely. I realized I was feeling vulnerable because I was alone and 'slow'; being fast is a big part of the reason I feel confident riding alone on the trails. These guys changed the dynamic by using motors (not allowed). Of course, the worst thing that happened as they passed was that I inhaled some rank fumes. But you never know. What if they'd just been waiting for a single woman to come along?

    I can easily imagine, if I was slower than your average guy on a bike, I'd be a lot less likely to want to go for a solo ride. We frequently see news stories about men exposing themselves to women riding bike trails... the guy usually has arrived on a bike himself. That would be enough to put me off of riding isolated trails solo.

  15. #240
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idoru2005 View Post
    We challenge each other all the time and call each other on the BS we each spew. It's called being honest with one another. One thing both of us despise is laziness and excuses. I'm not saying you don't have that kind of dynamic in your relationship, but we certainly do. And no, it doesn't always lend towards an easy and non-confrontational existence. But at least we push each other to be the best we possibly can in any given situation.
    Let me guess, you also tell her the truth when she asks if her butt looks big in a certain outfit? Women(people) want to be heard and supported, not called out. Your's sounds like an exhausting relationship the way you describe it. How long have you been married?

    I can't imagine being "confronted with my BS" or "pushed" for 50-60 years. Motivation should be intrinsic. I don't need nor do I want some other person dragging me through life as if I were a toddler being told to finish her peas or else there is no dessert. Some people seem to confuse a marital type relationship with a parental relationship.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Let me guess, you also tell her the truth when she asks if her butt looks big in a certain outfit? Women(people) want to be heard and supported, not called out. Your's sounds like an exhausting relationship the way you describe it. How long have you been married?

    I can't imagine being "confronted with my BS" or "pushed" for 50-60 years. Motivation should be intrinsic. I don't need nor do I want some other person dragging me through life as if I were a toddler being told to finish her peas or else there is no dessert. Some people seem to confuse a marital type relationship with a parental relationship.
    Slowandsteady, this last post is getting out of hand. It's none of your business how long I've been married. Stick to the topic.

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Let me guess, you also tell her the truth when she asks if her butt looks big in a certain outfit? Women(people) want to be heard and supported, not called out. Your's sounds like an exhausting relationship the way you describe it. How long have you been married?
    My wife expects and appreciates an honest answer there.

    I think people's relationships do vary quite a bit. Just like people do. It's taken me a long time to appreciate the fact that everyone is weird and unpredictably so.

    You're all freaks.

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.
    There are group rides that don't use pace lines? Boring!

  19. #244
    Mrs. Hop-along redeyedtreefr0g's Avatar
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    I'd like to contribute my two cents to this topic. I've gotten a new bicycle for my birthday and would like to ride it more, but for several reasons I haven't done so.

    About the bike first: it does matter to me what it looks like. I chose the bike from Target after I decided that I liked biking enough as an exercise option that I should get something better than my (rusty) mountain bike. I wanted skinny tires, having never had them before and wanting to go a little faster. I wanted a chain guard, since my mountain bike loved to grab my jeans. I wanted a rack on the back that I could attach a basket to to take my jack russel along, or to get a bag of groceries or something.
    I was looking at Target.com when I found the cheapest hybrid I could with all that. I was not willing to put down $200 for it. I asked for it for my birthday. My mom surprised me a lot by ordering it online when we couldn't find it in the stores and paid an extra $50 in shipping costs. I would love to have a green bike (my favorite color, plus lime green would be pretty and very visible) and eventually I might paint it. The men's version was a gorgeous sparkly brown.

    It was difficult for me to ride for several reasons even after I got a bike I liked. My husband is very worried for my safety and protective. The six miles it would take to commute to work is along a 55mph highway where he and most others speed. There is also a bare stretch which can get very dark. There is a shoulder glorified by signs to be called a bike lane part of the way. (The shoulder doesn't change, but after a while the "bike lane" ends, for some reason.) I can understand why he would not like me to ride to work at 5am alone.

    I also am currently the only one in the house with a bicycle. It is very hard for me to leave a house and just go out for a ride. I had nowhere to go, for one thing, and I would feel odd going out by myself.
    When I was alone with the dogs I would sometimes take my little 4-wheeled peddle car (no bike at that time) out for rides. I went 9 miles accidentally one day, but again, I felt bad leaving my dogs home alone when they would much rather have my company. The beagle wasn't thrilled about the bucket I put on a trailer to take him with me- he howled endlessly and I wasn't in the mood to work with him over it.

    Now that we have moved and work is only 3 miles away and we have nice wide roadways here with low speed limits, and a much better area, I'm very much looking forward to commuting to work. I could also use the bike trail to go 6 miles to downtown, where there is a library and a game store. I have an enclosed child trailer that I hope to use to convince my roommate to ride with me. She has a nearly-one-year-old daughter. I'm partly nervous about going out in a new area, but mostly I have not ridden yet because we're back to having to abandon a household of people to do so. I also have a slow leak in the rear tire and its a convenient deterrent when I know I'll have to spend a bunch of time using the tiny frame pump to get the bike ready to go.

    For me the vulnerability is a big factor. I am small at 5'2" and have never been in a fight in my life. I know size doesn't matter- my husbands aunt is an inch shorter and could beat the fight out of an aggressive horse and does so on a regular basis. If I knew for sure that I could at least defend myself against an attacker, perhaps I'd have more confidence to ride alone. The chance is remote, but as another poster pointed out, we are taught from a young age to be wary of being caught alone. I plan to learn some form of karate once we're settled in here.

    I never really considered a bicycle as a form of transportation before. Or recreation, really, since we're back to going out alone is a strange thing to do with two sisters who could go with you. We went to McDonald's once for ice cream. The bike seats hurt us for 3 days afterwards, I remember. We didn't try that anymore, though it was a neat idea. If my mom had encouraged us to ride more and gone with us or organized trips, perhaps we'd have kept up with it. As it was, a bike was a christmas present to be used a few times a year and then sit collecting dust and rust until we got a new one.

  20. #245
    Pedal pusher... alicestrong's Avatar
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    Good for you! I have some pepper spray velcroed to my handlebars, as I commute daily in an area with stray dogs and other threats.

    That slow leak may be a teeny, teeny tiny thorn in your tire..
    Last edited by alicestrong; 07-22-11 at 10:08 AM. Reason: oops
    May you live long, live strong, and live happy!

  21. #246
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicestrong View Post
    Good for you! I have some pepper spray velcroed to my handlebars, as I commute daily in an area with stray dogs and other threats.

    That slow leak may be a teeny, teeny tiny thorn in your tube..
    I've never had a case of somethgin staying in the tube. Tire is a different story.

    A slow leak in a tub can easily be found if yuo have a sink. just fill it and hold the tube (or in practice a part of the tube at a time) until you see bubbles. Even the slowest of leaks is visible. The chance the the leak is in the valve should not get forgotten.

    If the tires are installed professionally then the decals on hte tire will line up with the valve. Why? because that way once yuo find a leak in hte tube yuo can line up the tub and tire again and check for thorns of glass where the leak is. (A quick check of the whole tire is worthwhile also.

    One of the most annoying things to pickup in a tire is a bit of steelbelt material from a car tire. It can be very difficult to find and remove. I've had it happen three times and only once found it on the first try.

  22. #247
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    I can't imagine being "confronted with my BS" or "pushed" for 50-60 years. Motivation should be intrinsic. I don't need nor do I want some other person dragging me through life as if I were a toddler being told to finish her peas or else there is no dessert. Some people seem to confuse a marital type relationship with a parental relationship.
    Very interesting comment. A lot of people get married unconsciously thinking the other is a parent. I see the "parent" spouse on forums all the time whenever the subject of a road breakdown comes up. The broken down rider carries no tools but does carry a cell phone, so they call their "mommy" to come rescue them. I've only had to call my wife twice in 30 years of marriage due to a bike problem, the first time I had crashed and called her from the hospital...thought she might want to know where I was! The second time I got diarrhea so bad that even the two Imodium AD's I carried failed to dent it, so after about 13 or 14 bouts it left me too weak to ride the remaining 12 miles back home, so I called her to come get me. I've seen guys calling their "mommies" because they can't even fix a flat! Why is an adult who is incapable of fixing a flat riding a bike at all?? They ought to be taking up a different sport like basket weaving.

  23. #248
    Mrs. Hop-along redeyedtreefr0g's Avatar
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    The idea of using water to find a leak by air bubbles is a good one. I hadn't even thought to check it yet, but Grandad uses soapy water all the time to check the bead of car tires. We even have a little doggy pool so I can dunk the whole tube at once. I'll be sure to do that, thanks. I happen to have a patch kit that came with a multitool

    And just so you know, I am definitely looking forward to getting some skirts and riding in them. I'm a beader and I thought I could make gorgeous sparkly skirt guards instead of crocheted ones. My husband and roommates and I just started P90X and I'm a sewer. I plan to get some patterns after the 90 days and make some awesome clothes to go with my improved physique. It's amazing how simply changing diet will improve your mood and therefore self-esteem. Exercise of course contributes, and I know I'll get to that point soon, this is a restart for my husband and I. We'll make it this time!

  24. #249
    Pedal pusher... alicestrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    I've never had a case of somethgin staying in the tube. Tire is a different story.
    .
    Yeah I meant tire,sorry not enough caffeine I guess..
    May you live long, live strong, and live happy!

  25. #250
    Senior Member hotbike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    ....

    If you're referring to a step-through frame, it will be heavier than the equivalent diamond frame bike. There's no way around this -- any trick you can use to make the step-through frame lighter could be used to make the diamond-frame bike lighter too.

    The difference is small, yes -- but it's there.
    I beg to differ with you, but have you seen the bpstealth?

    http://www.bpstealth.com/

    It's a Carbon Fiber Monocoque frame, and it only has a single frame tube! It has a lower step over height than a diamond frame mens bike. Though clearly, it is not marketed to women as a "Ladies Bicycle", the BP Stealth Monocoque frame design shows how Carbon is uniquely suited for manufacturing or building light-weight, high-end, ladies bicycles.
    I would say that the BP Stealth design could be re-designed with an even lower step over height, at a cost of only a few extra grams of Carbon.

    Did you know that Carbon Fiber tubes, of large diameter, can be filled with Foam ? , to prevent crushing , allowing the wall thickness to be extremely thin? It kind of works like air in a tire- when it's filled, it keeps its shape.

    In the mean time, if anyone asks for a copy of the Fiberglass Ladies Bicycle designed by Mellisa, I will tell them I am not currently building anymore bikes, but then I will direct that person to http://www.bpstealth.com/

    Heh, the only thing is, the price is not listed on the BP Stealth website, and you know, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it".
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/11629987@N02/sets/72157639939606343/

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