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Old 05-14-13, 06:34 AM   #301
kookaburra1701
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Originally Posted by LyzurJane View Post
I'd be pretty pissed if someone told me I shouldn't ride at night. As though they're in a better position to know what's best for me than I do.
Heck, I've even had it happen here on BF, in the Commuting Forum, IIRC. It was on a thread where the guys were all kvetching about how people tell them riding a bicycle is too dangerous and how much they hate it when people do that. Self-awareness was pretty lacking in that one.

The makeup study that I linked to, though, I think showed that women have the same perceptions linking competence in the workplace to a "natural" but made up look. So even if they're not rude enough to say something, many of your women coworkers may have absorbed the same standards for what constitutes a "professional appearance." I mean the general "you," of course, since I have no idea what your specific workplace situation is like.[/QUOTE]

I'm a paramedic, so we're all dressed in pajamas(scrubs), anyways. Some of my female co-workers manage to wear makeup and look fantastic. I'm a sweaty mess by the end of the shift, and I'd look like an even bigger trainwreck if I added smudgy/streaky eyeliner to the mix. Thinking about it, I think only about 50% of the women who work at the hospital wear make up. Most of the female MD's do not.

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Also, sorry your weekend commute is such a nightmare. I actually feel pretty safe in the college bar areas around here, cause cops are everywhere and it's incredibly well lit. Also, I'm an old, so the college kids look straight through me like I'm invisible. No harassment there. It's the drunk drivers that I worry about on weekend nights.
The main drag is well-lit, with frequent police patrols, but the area the bike path empties into is residential - only stop signs, no lane markings on the roads, and tons of student rentals/frats/apartments. I go through there because it's the same distance but not having to deal with the traffic lights means I get through the last 1/2 mile of my commute in 3 minutes instead of 10. Besides, the people who are drunk enough to think that attempting to stop someone on a 56# bicycle going 15 mph are usually drunk enough to push over with a feather, so it's annoying but I've never felt REALLY in danger. Also the Airzound gives them a good scare.

Last edited by kookaburra1701; 05-14-13 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 05-14-13, 09:36 AM   #302
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I'm 5'3", 180 lbs. My fat ass is quite comfortable on a bicycle, tyvm.
Nice!
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Old 05-14-13, 09:44 AM   #303
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GARRARD, J., ROSE, G., & LO, S. (January 01, 2008). Promoting transportation cycling for women: The role of bicycle infrastructure. Preventive Medicine, 46, 1, 55-59.

Abstract

Objective. Females are substantially less likely than males to cycle for transport in countries with low bicycle transport mode share. We investigated whether female commuter cyclists were more likely to use bicycle routes that provide separation from motor vehicle traffic.
Methods. Census of cyclists observed at 15 locations (including off-road bicycle paths, on-road lanes and roads with no bicycle facilities) within a 7.4 km radius of the central business district (CBD) of Melbourne, Australia, during peak commuting times in February 2004.
Results. 6589 cyclists were observed, comprising 5229 males (79.4%) and 1360 females (20.6%). After adjustment for distance of the bicycle facility from the CBD, females showed a preference for using off-road paths rather than roads with no bicycle facilities (odds ratio [OR]=1.43, 95% confidence interval [CI]: 1.12, 1.83), or roads with on-road bicycle lanes (OR=1.34, 95% CI: 1.03, 1.75).
Conclusions. Consistent with gender differences in risk aversion, female commuter cyclists preferred to use routes with maximum separation from motorized traffic. Improved cycling infrastructure in the form of bicycle paths and lanes that provide a high degree of separation from motor traffic is likely to be important for increasing transportation cycling amongst under-represented population groups such as women.
 2007 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.


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We are not aware of any published studies of gender differences in commuter cyclist route choice based on observed behaviour, rather than self-reported behaviours or stated preferences.
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The proportion of female cyclists varied according to the type of bicycle facility (Table 2), suggesting that females preferred to use on-road lanes and roads with no bicycle facilities compared with off-road paths.
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Two small-scale surveys conducted in Minnesota found that, on a range of measures, female commuter cyclists tended to be more concerned about safety factors than males (Krizek et al., 2005; Tilahun et al., nd).
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Old 05-14-13, 12:58 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by kookaburra1701 View Post
It's also the men who tell me I shouldn't ride at night (I work graveyards) because I might be raped. Never had a woman bring it up. Of course they get all butthurt when I point out that, statistically, I'm much more likely to be assaulted by one of them (ie, a man that I know) than by a crazy guy in the bushes.
Sounds like you don't do living in fear very well. That's cool.
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Old 05-14-13, 02:08 PM   #305
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if we stop buying road bikes, stop wearing spandex, stop wearing helmets, and encourage our womyn-folk to ride around in skirts and heels we too can make the list.
Sounds like a plan to me!
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Old 05-14-13, 06:18 PM   #306
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I get sick of all these excuses:- Why are cleanliness and appearance and comfort so important to women; it's because of social training. Right now women are focused on pay differences in isolation but they perhaps should look at the whole picture. What I'm saying is, don't just raise your daughter to expect equal pay, raise her to believe she is ok without wearing a covering of cosmetics on her face or perfume and deodorants under her arms. Raise her to believe that body hair is normal and farting is fun and then she'll be able to mix with men, ride bikes to work and do high paying jobs like operating a shearer in a coal mine 2 miles underground without fear her ladybits with fall off.
An interesting cultural note from Australia, why indeed are 'cleanliness, appearance and [for goodness' sake] comfort so important' to those darned females?

Sadly, in typical American working environments women and men alike have to adhere to rather different standards than you are probably used to down in Oz. Even some of us MEN have a thing about comfort and even...yech...cleanliness. What a bunch of weaklings!

We envy you the special Australian 'business casual' look that you can get away with. Some fellas have all the luck!

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Old 05-14-13, 10:08 PM   #307
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I'd be pretty pissed if someone told me I shouldn't ride at night. As though they're in a better position to know what's best for me than I do.

I'd second your experience of having men confront me about my appearance. It's generally out of some misplaced sense of concern that I'm dressed or made up a certain way because I just don't understand what appeals to them, personally. They want to be helpful by letting me know what they find attractive so that I can start doing that. It never occurred to them that I really don't care what some random guy finds attractive in a woman. I find it rude and off-putting and it kind of makes me want to do the opposite.

The makeup study that I linked to, though, I think showed that women have the same perceptions linking competence in the workplace to a "natural" but made up look. So even if they're not rude enough to say something, many of your women coworkers may have absorbed the same standards for what constitutes a "professional appearance." I mean the general "you," of course, since I have no idea what your specific workplace situation is like.

Also, sorry your weekend commute is such a nightmare. I actually feel pretty safe in the college bar areas around here, cause cops are everywhere and it's incredibly well lit. Also, I'm an old, so the college kids look straight through me like I'm invisible. No harassment there. It's the drunk drivers that I worry about on weekend nights.
FWIW, tonight I left work and rode the first mile or two through Brooklyn at 10 pm with a co-worker- female. Then thought I'd count the cyclists on the Manhattan Bridge as I crossed back into Manhattan. In my roughly 6 minute ride over the bridge I saw 31 cyclists-12 were female- all riding solo over the bridge at night. I think there is a safety in numbers component as well as well lit infrastructure.
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Old 05-14-13, 10:24 PM   #308
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Is it really such that men can show up to work looking like slobs and still get taken seriously?
.
Are you saying that anyone who does not have a nice clean office job is therefore a slob?
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Old 05-15-13, 06:28 AM   #309
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I think there is a safety in numbers component as well as well lit infrastructure.
I agree, but in a lot of places, and probably even most places, you're not going to be able to get the volume of women bikers riding at night to arrive at whatever critical mass creates the positive feedback loop of getting even more women on bikes. I encountered the sketchy catcall pickup truck guys I describe in an earlier post on an empty street. It was just me, them, and the lone cop car. I doubt I encountered anyone else on a bike on most of that trip, let alone many women.

Although it is probably a concern that many women have, I think the lighting is probably fairly low on the list for most women. I mean, most women walk around at night, right? Sometimes you have places to go, and it's also night time. That's not to say that you feel totally comfortable on all streets at all times, but it's already a level of discomfort that most women come to terms with. Especially if the choice is 1)walk/bike at night, 2) stand outside waiting at a bus stop at night, or 3) don't leave the house after 4pm in the winter.
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Old 05-15-13, 10:29 PM   #310
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I agree, but in a lot of places, and probably even most places, you're not going to be able to get the volume of women bikers riding at night to arrive at whatever critical mass creates the positive feedback loop of getting even more women on bikes. I encountered the sketchy catcall pickup truck guys I describe in an earlier post on an empty street. It was just me, them, and the lone cop car. I doubt I encountered anyone else on a bike on most of that trip, let alone many women.

Although it is probably a concern that many women have, I think the lighting is probably fairly low on the list for most women. I mean, most women walk around at night, right? Sometimes you have places to go, and it's also night time. That's not to say that you feel totally comfortable on all streets at all times, but it's already a level of discomfort that most women come to terms with. Especially if the choice is 1)walk/bike at night, 2) stand outside waiting at a bus stop at night, or 3) don't leave the house after 4pm in the winter.
One more cyclist count tonight on my crossing of the Manhattan Bridge at 10:30 at night. 29 cyclists headed to Brooklyn. The number of females?..................






Drum roll, please....................









........12!


Not bad, huh?

That's two nights in a row with roughly 40% female riders.

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Old 05-15-13, 10:55 PM   #311
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Nice Good to see the ladies on their bicycles.
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Old 05-15-13, 11:01 PM   #312
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Around here ladies like trucks...and it grew after I had to sell my car too.

They're not really any safer than anything but they like being higher in traffic.
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Old 05-21-13, 07:44 AM   #313
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I'm excited to see gas prices hit and stay at $5/gallon.
That's a rather absurd statement. You seem to think that bikes will solve everything yet you seem to ignore the persons on the economy's fringe who are reliant on transportation of vital needs, not Walmart DVD players but food, medicine, getting to care and food help, searching for jobs...

Nobody is going to make friends with bicycles if they don't take care of the real needs of everyone and I for one am not enthusiastic about this when my mother is now alone (widowed and her mother passed at 94 1 1/2 mos ago) and all of my family members are now between 40-95 and fading...

I don't care about going to shopping malls! I want to be able to afford a 70 mpg 250cc scooter to go bury my kin! It's a bit selfish if you cannot offer help, only gloating.
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Old 05-21-13, 10:49 AM   #314
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I coach high school cross country, track and field and also tennis.

I know ALOT of female runners and alot of great female athletes. I have tried for many years to get them into cycling and I think in 17 years I have gotten 1 girl on a bike.

Girls just dont like to ride bikes.
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Old 05-21-13, 12:31 PM   #315
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I don't know if its by way of being male, but I notice a lot of females on bike in my city and in roughly equal proportions to males.
Attire varies from full kit / roadbike to dress and heels "beautiful godzilla". I've seen females ride in the winter too. I have to say, that's quite attractive also (female all year commuter).

No way to quantify my response though, so it is just an observation at best.
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Old 05-21-13, 12:44 PM   #316
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I coach high school cross country, track and field and also tennis.

I know ALOT of female runners and alot of great female athletes. I have tried for many years to get them into cycling and I think in 17 years I have gotten 1 girl on a bike.

Girls just dont like to ride bikes.
wow. i've seen it in sitcoms before but i have never myself choked on my coffee while reading a computer screen until now
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Old 05-21-13, 12:48 PM   #317
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Girls just dont like to ride bikes.
You just don't know how to communicate all of the advantages to ladies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_MFrXptbOM (possibly NSFW)
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Old 05-27-13, 05:49 AM   #318
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I believe that was a BIANCHI...well, THAT much was TMI but I've seen that clip a few times.



(Oh MAN, do I feel a small cloud forming o'er me)
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Old 05-27-13, 08:26 AM   #319
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wow. i've seen it in sitcoms before but i have never myself choked on my coffee while reading a computer screen until now
Me too!!! That was hysterical!
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Old 05-27-13, 09:20 AM   #320
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Whenever I am asked, "why don't more [demographic of which I am a member] do [whatever activity the asker doesn't appear to see enough of said demographic doing (or perhaps, not doing it to his frequency or liking)*]?", I always suggest that the person make a list of all of the factors that make it possible for that person to engage in the activity himself. If the person is honest and thorough, the list should provide several helpful and thought-provoking answers. In the case of cycling, it seems pretty obvious to me why I seldom see other people who look like me (african american women) riding bikes for transportation in my city.

Just for kicks, here is a partial list of the factors that enable me to use a bicycle for transportation (in no particular order):
  • I am completely unencumbered at the moment - no spouse, children, pets, aging parents, or other responsibilities. My time, money, and tangible and intagible resources are entirely my own to command at my own discretion.
  • I can afford to buy the bike products and accessories that I need and/or want.
  • I am willing to look stupid sometimes (often) and to make mistakes.
  • Cycling is a positive choice for me. I do it because I want to, not because I have to.
  • I have plenty of time - time to explore new routes to favorite destinations, time tp practice and gain new cycling skills, time to spend getting home by bike vs. by car, etc.
  • I am independent by nature.
  • I have nerves of steel. For example, it doesn't bother me when people in cars pass closely in the same lane. As long as they don't actually hit me, I'm good.
  • I am used to being different. Many things that I do that seem utterly unremarkable to me are apparently noteworthy to just about everyone else around me.
  • For the most part, I do not internalize/carry the burden of fear that many women are socialized to have.
  • I perceive the neighborhoods that I ride through to be relatively safe (although others do not necessarily perceive them that way).
  • I have experience in doing adventurous/risky things.
  • I have always been at least a little physically active.
  • I am privileged enough to be able to view the world at large as a fairly benign entity.
  • My hair and makeup hold up pretty well under typical bicycle trips.

I could go on, but this is enough to illustrate my point. I think that the current emphasis on additional bike infrastructure to get more women on bikes is a well-meaning start but only a small part of the total equation.

*In case it's not clear, I always find the question to be supremely annoying, although I recognize that the person asking it is usually sincere and means well.
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