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  1. #76
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
    For that one, add another child seat on the rack or a small trailer. Of course, there are ways of preventing the whole "too many kids to carry" thing in the first place.
    Seriously, how rude.

    Let's add to the list of why women don't cycle with mens attitudes towards women. Don't know what I mean? Read through this thread. If men think women are too (fat, vain, self concious, insert whatever excuse you want here) women are going to think that if themselves and won't do it.

    Interceptor, those are some very neat looking bikes. Sadly, they aren't exactly something that you can walk down to your LBS to get though. Acessibility of equipment that will work for a family is an issue.
    Last edited by Denelle; 06-26-11 at 04:29 AM. Reason: S

  2. #77
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    Looks like men can handle it without too much difficulty:

    Attachment 208104
    No difficulty ? No difficulty - at least when the weather is sunny, warm and in the day light, and in the park and with no traffic and it looks like no serious amount of groceries.

  3. #78
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH
    Of course, there are ways of preventing the whole "too many kids to carry" thing in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Seriously, how rude.

    Let's add to the list of why women don't cycle with mens attitudes towards women.
    Danelle,

    I think you will find that a significant number of the male proselytizers for car free living giving wacky advice, live a life without children and/or are likely to have a partner who will never have them either.

  4. #79
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Danelle,

    I think you will find that a significant number of the male proselytizers for car free living giving wacky advice, live a life without children and/or are likely to have a partner who will never have them either.
    I have one seven year old and I'm a SAHD. I can barely get him his after school snack, make it to after school activities, then back home, dinner/homework/shower/sleep on a bicycle.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Seriously, how rude.

    Let's add to the list of why women don't cycle with mens attitudes towards women. Don't know what I mean? Read through this thread. If men think women are too (fat, vain, self concious, insert whatever excuse you want here) women are going to think that if themselves and won't do it.

    Interceptor, those are some very neat looking bikes. Sadly, they aren't exactly something that you can walk down to your LBS to get though. Acessibility of equipment that will work for a family is an issue.
    Denelle,

    While I would agree with you that there have certainly been what could be construed as sexist attitudes in this thread and that, in general, male attitudes towards women might outwardly appear to be a reason women don't cycle I don't think that is entirely true. Most of the women I know don't let male attitudes stop them from doing things that they really want to do. And I've spent enough time in Europe and the Netherlands to say that sexism is alive and well on that continent and women ride bikes there. Though I've not spent time in Japan I believe that culturally there is a good share of male chauvinism and yet women ride bikes. So maybe it's cultural attitudes towards people on bikes.

    With regards KD5NRH's statement about "ways of preventing..." it's hard to read tone over the internet and yes, it may be insensitive and somewhat uninformed but not necessarily a singularly male attitude. I know many women who might say exactly the same thing- Margaret Sanger comes to mind.

    And, on one hand, I understand their point. In a world of diminishing resources moving rapidly towards overpopulation and vast numbers of people on the planet wanting a more materially satisfying lifestyle when someone (male or female) says they must have an SUV and/or a minivan to cart their children all over town and sit in endless rows outside of elementary schools to pick them up and drop them off and especially if they say it as a complaint it's not surprising that someone (male or female) may remind them that having children and the number of children one has is a choice.

    It would be nice if we could all live our lives like it's 1950 and the US is one big oasis of material stuff in a sea of endless resources but it's 60 years later and the world has indeed changed and we're going to have to change with it.
    Last edited by buzzman; 06-26-11 at 08:40 AM. Reason: last sentence was wrong

  6. #81
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Seriously, how rude.
    No argument there.

    Interceptor, those are some very neat looking bikes. Sadly, they aren't exactly something that you can walk down to your LBS to get though. Acessibility of equipment that will work for a family is an issue.
    Actually, you can walk down to your LBS and get those. At least here in Austin, TX, a few of the bike shops stock cargo bikes, a few local framebuilders make them and of course you can special order anything you want.

    And you do see them on the road occasionally.

  7. #82
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Danelle,

    I think you will find that a significant number of the male proselytizers for car free living giving wacky advice, live a life without children and/or are likely to have a partner who will never have them either.
    Thank you for the heads up

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    Denelle,

    While I would agree with you that there have certainly been what could be construed as sexist attitudes in this thread and that, in general, male attitudes towards women might outwardly appear to be a reason women don't cycle I don't think that is entirely true. Most of the women I know don't let male attitudes stop them from doing things that they really want to do. And I've spent enough time in Europe and the Netherlands to say that sexism is alive and well on that continent and women ride bikes there. Though I've not spent time in Japan I believe that culturally there is a good share of male chauvinism and yet women ride bikes. So maybe it's cultural attitudes towards people on bikes.

    With regards KD5NRH's statement about "ways of preventing..." it's hard to read tone over the internet and yes, it may be insensitive and somewhat uninformed but not necessarily a singularly male attitude. I know many women who might say exactly the same thing- Margaret Sanger comes to mind.

    And, on one hand, I understand their point. In a world of diminishing resources moving rapidly towards overpopulation and vast numbers of people on the planet wanting a more materially satisfying lifestyle when someone (male or female) says they must have an SUV and/or a minivan to cart their children all over town and sit in endless rows outside of elementary schools to pick them up and drop them off and especially if they say it as a complaint it's not surprising that someone (male or female) may remind them that having children and the number of children one has is a choice.

    It would be nice if we could all live our lives like it's 1950 and the US is one big oasis of material stuff in a sea of endless resources but it's 60 years later and the world has indeed changed and we're going to have to change with it.
    Are we really going to debate birth control here? Of course the number of children one has is a choice. I was asking how to make cycling work in conjunction with that choice. If you go back through the conversation, I gave my own personal example of having two small children (well and a teenager and needing to make it work. It's really a moot point anyways once the children are here.

    Quite honestly though, one of the easiest and quickest ways to insult a person is to insult the number of children they have chosen to have (or not have).

    I don't share the same world travel experience that you have to even touch on the debate of sexist attitudes around the world, so I am only speaking from my own experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    No argument there.

    Actually, you can walk down to your LBS and get those. At least here in Austin, TX, a few of the bike shops stock cargo bikes, a few local framebuilders make them and of course you can special order anything you want.

    And you do see them on the road occasionally.
    My husband has dragged me into a multitude of bike shops in our state (and the surrounding ones!) and I have yet to see any cargo bikes. I haven't thought about ordering one though Maybe that will be the first bike I have him build me, as he is going to Doug's frame building class next month and he promised me a bike

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Seriously, how rude.
    I don't know what he meant, but I read it as "Why are you saddled with two kids all the time, where is dad"? In that case two adults can easily handle two kids on one trailer and groceries on the other. My wife and I always trade off so that neither has to do grocery shopping with both ( bikes or not ).
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post

    Are we really going to debate birth control here? Of course the number of children one has is a choice. I was asking how to make cycling work in conjunction with that choice. If you go back through the conversation, I gave my own personal example of having two small children (well and a teenager and needing to make it work. It's really a moot point anyways once the children are here.

    Quite honestly though, one of the easiest and quickest ways to insult a person is to insult the number of children they have chosen to have (or not have).

    I don't share the same world travel experience that you have to even touch on the debate of sexist attitudes around the world, so I am only speaking from my own experiences.
    No debate here. I stand corrected.

  10. #85
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Quite honestly though, one of the easiest and quickest ways to insult a person is to insult the number of children they have chosen to have (or not have).

    I don't share the same world travel experience that you have...

    As previously pointed out, I suspect that the wackiest advice/pronouncement on the ease/practicality of running a household/family life, to include daily transportation of children/shopping, through the exclusive use of bicycles and public transportation is being given by boys and men who have no living experience with dependent children and possibly no woman partner.

    Likely, their unrealistic/impractical advice is based on extrapolations from their bachelor life experience at college or the Village or some similar non-typical family environment; or from third hand info gleaned from Internet blogs.

  11. #86
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brontide View Post
    I don't know what he meant, but I read it as "Why are you saddled with two kids all the time, where is dad"? In that case two adults can easily handle two kids on one trailer and groceries on the other. My wife and I always trade off so that neither has to do grocery shopping with both ( bikes or not ).
    Up until a few months ago, Dad worked out of the house full time and I was home full time. Right now, hubby has our son on a trailabike and I have our daughter on an Ibert, but he's going to be leaving for most of July to go to a framebuilding class and I'll have to figure things out then

    Of course that's just my situation, where I'm blessed to be married. There are lots of single moms out there.

  12. #87
    Senior Member skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Seriously, how rude.

    Let's add to the list of why women don't cycle with mens attitudes towards women. Don't know what I mean? Read through this thread. If men think women are too (fat, vain, self concious, insert whatever excuse you want here) women are going to think that if themselves and won't do it.
    Please, spare me. Where does your blame game end? Most of what I've read here written by women has somehow managed to blame men for the fact that few women ride.

    Much as you would apparently like me to, I don't have control over your thoughts or your opinion about yourself. Quit blaming men for your insecurities. If you want to get out and ride, get out and ride. Machismo is just a convenient excuse for not doing it.

  13. #88
    Senior Member skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    As previously pointed out, I suspect that the wackiest advice/pronouncement on the ease/practicality of running a household/family life, to include daily transportation of children/shopping, through the exclusive use of bicycles and public transportation is being given by boys and men who have no living experience with dependent children and possibly no woman partner.

    Likely, their unrealistic/impractical advice is based on extrapolations from their bachelor life experience at college or the Village or some similar non-typical family environment; or from third hand info gleaned from Internet blogs.
    I actually agree with you, ILTB. I've tried it, and it is insanely difficult, unless you live in a city. Your kids end up mooching a lot of rides off of their friends parents.

    That said, you can do pretty well with a car-light lifestyle. I do the groceries with my trailer, the same trailer that used to cart the kids around. But when it's time to make the away game, I pull out the car.

  14. #89
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    I actually agree with you, ILTB. I've tried it, and it is insanely difficult, unless you live in a city. Your kids end up mooching a lot of rides off of their friends parents.

    That said, you can do pretty well with a car-light lifestyle. I do the groceries with my trailer, the same trailer that used to cart the kids around. But when it's time to make the away game, I pull out the car.
    Car-light and car free are worlds apart when it comes to taking care of the transportation requirements for a typical family. Any adult who rides a bike at all for any amount of utility might consider themselves "car light". Car free means no access to a motor vehicle and THAT requires serious sacrifices for almost any typical family not wishing to spend all their time living in a densely populated hood or incredibly expensive gentrified area with no decent public schools. Of course that is of no concern to some our hip bicycling experts with no dependents and even less common sense.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Up until a few months ago, Dad worked out of the house full time and I was home full time. Right now, hubby has our son on a trailabike and I have our daughter on an Ibert, but he's going to be leaving for most of July to go to a framebuilding class and I'll have to figure things out then

    Of course that's just my situation, where I'm blessed to be married. There are lots of single moms out there.
    I'll just add that there may be a language gap here. Possible and practical may not be the same here. Is it possible to have a cargo bike with kids in the back, yes? Is it really is that a practical solution to grocery shopping with two kids while on a bike, no.

    I have a family ( 2 adults, 2 young kids ) and we get by with 1 car and too many bikes. We get by because we have a car and most of our locations we need to get to are at most 5 miles away.
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  16. #91
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    Please, spare me. Where does your blame game end? Most of what I've read here written by women has somehow managed to blame men for the fact that few women ride.

    Much as you would apparently like me to, I don't have control over your thoughts or your opinion about yourself. Quit blaming men for your insecurities. If you want to get out and ride, get out and ride. Machismo is just a convenient excuse for not doing it.
    I think you might have missed where I pointed out that I recently sold my minivan to ride a bike instead. I do get out and ride. *I* am not blaming *YOU* for anything. Simply contributing my feelings/thoughts to the thread. Maybe I should have jumped into a lighter thread for my first posts here


    Quote Originally Posted by Brontide View Post
    I'll just add that there may be a language gap here. Possible and practical may not be the same here. Is it possible to have a cargo bike with kids in the back, yes? Is it really is that a practical solution to grocery shopping with two kids while on a bike, no.

    I have a family ( 2 adults, 2 young kids ) and we get by with 1 car and too many bikes. We get by because we have a car and most of our locations we need to get to are at most 5 miles away.
    Very good point

    Being a one car family has worked out very well for us so far, but it does take a little bit of effort and dedication and I can see how not everyone would choose that lifestyle.
    Last edited by Denelle; 06-26-11 at 05:48 PM.

  17. #92
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    I put up the question on my blog but only got two answers. One was clothing and the other was finding time as she has kids. When I was at my LBS the two guys that worked there said that their girlfriends liked cycling but hated the colors of women's bikes and finding bikes that fit correctly..men's or women's. I have the Trek Women's Mamba 29er which one loved riding but what stopped her was the color scheme. I love my Mamba and don't regret the purchase. I can move past the purple/pink color.

    I LOVE my Madone 4.7 that I purchased 4 days ago. I'm so glad I traded up my Hardrock to pay for some of it.

    You guys have been awesome with encouraging me and knowing that you like having us with you for the rides. I thought I'd never get up hills when I first posted and the other day I did a 5 mile one with my Madone. I hit 30 mph going down but slowed it down to about 22 so I didn't get knocked over by the wind and/or the semi trucks going by at 60 mph.

    I even got my DH to ride. He has his Electra Townie and an Electra Rat Fink that I bought him for Father's Day which he adores and I cringe just looking at it.

  18. #93
    Senior Member KD5NRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    When I was at my LBS the two guys that worked there said that their girlfriends liked cycling but hated the colors of women's bikes and finding bikes that fit correctly..men's or women's.
    You need a new LBS if the guys there can't figure out a workaround for "love the bike, hate the color." Powdercoating isn't that expensive, and there's always Krylon.

  19. #94
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantik View Post
    if women are concerned about how they look, they should know that chicks on bikes are hot
    Some women don't like riding because they get hit on by lecherous losers.

    Just sayin'.

  20. #95
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    I guess, and I mean I guess, that for the same reason you don't see a lot of women in any sport. Why are there not as many women in sports? That's the real question. I think it goes back to genetics, Men were always the gathers and the warriors and so had to be on top of their game back in the ancient days. Sports today is a form of being a warrior thus I think for most men sports comes naturally, whereas with most women it doesn't. However in today's world you find a lot of men not interested in sports like they use to because today their warrior instincts are expressed through kill and be killed video games...not much athleticism there! But regardless it's still that warrior instinct at work.

    Some of you may argue that you know men who don't do any form of sports or just bad at it. I was like that too! I couldn't play football, baseball or basketball to save my life, but I discovered by accident that I was a fast runner, but I didn't really like running, but I was able to transfer that speed to cycling which I found I liked. I think for most men who haven't found an activity they like it's just a matter of experimenting with a bunch of different sports till they find one they relate to.
    Last edited by rekmeyata; 06-29-11 at 08:45 PM.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Car-light and car free are worlds apart when it comes to taking care of the transportation requirements for a typical family. Any adult who rides a bike at all for any amount of utility might consider themselves "car light". Car free means no access to a motor vehicle and THAT requires serious sacrifices for almost any typical family not wishing to spend all their time living in a densely populated hood or incredibly expensive gentrified area with no decent public schools...


    Dead on accurate.

  22. #97
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I know several families that are car-lite. Kids, Mom, Dad, all riding bikes to and from school, shopping.

    I see shopping families with cargo bikes and little ones tagging along en route to the Fred Meyer or the PCC on a regular basis.

    Dense cities have lower car ownership overall. I suspect there's more than a couple of families in New York City, San Francisco that have no cars but own and use bikes.

    Care share programs in larger cities also make car free lifestyles much easier. I know plenty of people that use FlexCars, but most of thost people do not have kids. i suspect Flexcars could work for city families.

    as to why more women do not ride bikes, the roads and our american cities are not bicycle friendly.

    Simple.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    as to why more women do not ride bikes, the roads and our american cities are not bicycle friendly.

    Simple.
    Not so simple. Even though I disagree that our roads are not bicycle friendly (though yes, they could be much friendlier), for the sake of discussion I'll accept that premise. How does that translate into less women riding? Are you saying that women are more timid than men? Less skilled? More easily intimidated? Inferior? What is it about women that makes the unfriendliness of the roads impact them more than men?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

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    The original question should be: WHY DONT MORE HOT WOMEN RIDE BIKES?

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by LemondFanForeve View Post
    The original question should be: WHY DONT MORE HOT WOMEN RIDE BIKES?
    Because their just naturally hot and they know it, but when they reach early 30's it's all gone, while the ones who had to work at and kept working at look hot way until their 50's and some beyond.

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