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Old 06-30-11, 10:28 PM   #101
Robert C
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Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
When I was at my LBS the two guys that worked there said that their girlfriends liked cycling but hated the colors of women's bikes and finding bikes that fit correctly..men's or women's. I have the Trek Women's Mamba 29er which one loved riding but what stopped her was the color scheme. I love my Mamba and don't regret the purchase. I can move past the purple/pink color.
I think part of the reason for the plethora of just plain horrid color schemes is that many bikes come from China. The women here really like the pastel colors and express distaste for more. . . I am going to use the word, "masculine," for lack of a better word; I am not an art major, there probably is a better word . . . masculine colors. As the manufacturers gain more American female customers, they will probably get better at predicting American female tastes.
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Old 07-01-11, 04:53 AM   #102
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I think part of the reason for the plethora of just plain horrid color schemes is that many bikes come from China. The women here really like the pastel colors and express distaste for more. . . I am going to use the word, "masculine," for lack of a better word; I am not an art major, there probably is a better word . . . masculine colors. As the manufacturers gain more American female customers, they will probably get better at predicting American female tastes.
I doubt if that is the case, as those bikes are being made under contract with Scwhinn, Trek, Giant, etc., all of whom have marketing departments presumably free of mainland China cultural influences.

Besides, if you believe much of what was written on this thread, women are absolute lemmings when it comes to the formation of their opinions, to the point where the assumed or projected thoughts of men are sufficient to dictate their own self-image; and in the few cases where that is not enough, a little marketing is utterly sufficient.

Based on what I've been reading here, basically, all you have to do is tell a woman that she should like red, and she'll like red.
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Old 07-01-11, 11:47 AM   #103
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I've been tossing around this color thing for a couple of days and I have to disagree. After watching the few women I do see out riding, only one was riding "girly" color, pink, all of the rest were riding men's bikes. My wife really doesn't make it a problem either, her problem is she hates physical activity of any kind, so I don't think color of the bike is the problem.
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Old 07-01-11, 12:14 PM   #104
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I've been tossing around this color thing for a couple of days and I have to disagree. After watching the few women I do see out riding, only one was riding "girly" color, pink, all of the rest were riding men's bikes. My wife really doesn't make it a problem either, her problem is she hates physical activity of any kind, so I don't think color of the bike is the problem.
If black was the only color, it would not keep my wife from riding...but since it isn't, she's darned picky about the color of her bikes.
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Old 07-01-11, 02:56 PM   #105
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I've been tossing around this color thing for a couple of days and I have to disagree. After watching the few women I do see out riding, only one was riding "girly" color, pink, all of the rest were riding men's bikes. My wife really doesn't make it a problem either, her problem is she hates physical activity of any kind, so I don't think color of the bike is the problem.
I have to laugh at this a bit... my wife asked me to remove the "pink stuff" from her bike. It is an all white Trek, that happened to have pink toe straps and pink hand grips and a pink water bottle cage... not stock, but added later... I bought the bike used. She didn't like the "girly" stuff.
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Old 07-01-11, 04:46 PM   #106
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If somebody of any gender is unwilling to ride a bike because they can't find one in an acceptable color, it kind of suggests that their motivation wasn't particularly strong to begin with.
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Old 07-01-11, 05:35 PM   #107
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Good Grief!
Find the bike you like. Strip it and have it painted the color you want.
Really not that expensive.
Sheesh.

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Old 07-01-11, 05:42 PM   #108
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Read the full article here:
http://www.grist.org/biking/2011-06-...economy-stupid

The two theories you hear bandied about the most are fear and fashion.

A widely cited 2009 study found that women are more likely to choose to ride on quiet residential streets, while men are more likely to choose direct routes even if they have heavier traffic. Women are an "indicator species" for cycling, this study concludes, and that cities can cajole greater women ridership by building safer-feeling bike infrastructure.

Much is also made of another concern women often express in surveys -- that cycling to work will impede our ability to conform to professional norms in clothing, makeup, and hairstyles. The response can be seen in the proliferation of the "Cycle Chic" brand, tweed rides, and the commingling of bicycling and high fashion in advertising.

There's plenty of truth in both the fear and fashion theories. But before we commit to blaming women's transportation practices on our timidity and vanity, I think it's worth looking at some other potential factors.

Like the economy.
In Southern California, where I ride, there are lots of female riders. Just get on PCH on any Saturday or Sunday morning and you will see lots of women riders.

This, of course, was not the case when I began riding 30 years ago. Back then, women riders were few and far between.

Nowdays there are lots of good, female riders. I know, one of my daughters is a rider and I get regularly beaten on the road by young female riders who are stronger and faster than I am.

As for the "fashion" issue, we men are as fashion conscious when it comes to riding bikes than women are - maybe even more.

Look at any group of male riders; their bikes must match their kit - including helmet and shoes.

Anyhow, I love the fact that there are more and more female riders out on the road. They bring a new dimension to bike riding and they are nice to look at.
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Old 07-01-11, 07:31 PM   #109
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In Southern California, where I ride, there are lots of female riders. Just get on PCH on any Saturday or Sunday morning and you will see lots of women riders.

This, of course, was not the case when I began riding 30 years ago. Back then, women riders were few and far between.

As for the "fashion" issue, we men are as fashion conscious when it comes to riding bikes than women are - maybe even more.

Look at any group of male riders; their bikes must match their kit - including helmet and shoes.
I use to ride PCH too back about 30 years ago and I remember the lack of women on bikes. I couldn't find a woman to marry that love cycling, so it is what it is.

And of course men are making a fashion and a bling statement with their choices of clothes and bikes. If anything I find women today who ride bikes less concerned about all of that then their men cycling counterparts! Men have a need to show off, when I use to race cars the whole thing was showing off so they could get kudos, then more kudos if they won a race. This goes on in any sport/hobby. If your hobby is photography and you hang with the crowd your all comparing cameras and lens etc. Well you can't keep up with the next guy, there's always going to be someone with something better then what you have. And remember, you can't take it with you when you leave this earth...you came with nothing, you'll leave with nothing.
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Old 07-01-11, 09:03 PM   #110
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....you can't take it with you when you leave this earth...you came with nothing, you'll leave with nothing.
Dang, and here i was hoping to spend all my time in the afterlife riding my bikes.
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Old 07-01-11, 09:15 PM   #111
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Dang, and here i was hoping to spend all my time in the afterlife riding my bikes.
Me too! But I'm sure once we get there cycling will seem boring.
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Old 07-02-11, 09:05 AM   #112
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Someone needs to build a Carbon Fiber Ladies Bicycle. There aren't many "high end" Ladies Bikes.

As for the Fiberglass Ladies Bicycle, which appears in my avatar, it should be noted that it was designed by a woman. Maybe if women had more say in the bicycle design, more women would ride bikes?

We can make a Ladies Bicycle that is as strong as a Mens Bicycle, with Carbon Fiber. And Carbon Fiber can be cast in any mold meant for Glass Fiber.
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Old 07-02-11, 10:09 AM   #113
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Someone needs to build a Carbon Fiber Ladies Bicycle. There aren't many "high end" Ladies Bikes.

As for the Fiberglass Ladies Bicycle, which appears in my avatar, it should be noted that it was designed by a woman. Maybe if women had more say in the bicycle design, more women would ride bikes?

We can make a Ladies Bicycle that is as strong as a Mens Bicycle, with Carbon Fiber. And Carbon Fiber can be cast in any mold meant for Glass Fiber.
In all the countries (both Third World and Industrialized)where a large slice of the population (including women) frequently ride bicycles, the preponderance of the bicycles in use are of the same "Low End" design and materials that have been used for the last 100 years or so.
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Old 07-02-11, 12:39 PM   #114
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Someone needs to build a Carbon Fiber Ladies Bicycle. There aren't many "high end" Ladies Bikes.
You mean step through frames? (There's plenty of high end diamond frame bikes made for women, after all.)

Step through frames are heavier than diamond frames of the same strength. Since high end bikes are usually made to either be as light as possible (or strong and light for off-road bikes) giving it a step-through frame makes it somewhat less high end. Considering that step-through frames are mostly for those who 1) aren't limber enough to get on a diamond frame bike (old folk, fat folk), or 2) those wearing skirts or dresses (women, but more to the point -- causal riders. Racers rarely wear dresses in a race, for example) -- it makes perfect sense to not see high end bikes made with step-through frames, as the riders who really want the lightest/fastest possible bike wouldn't mind any downsides of a diamond frame. (Well, except for those who go recumbent, but that's another matter entirely.)

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As for the Fiberglass Ladies Bicycle, which appears in my avatar, it should be noted that it was designed by a woman. Maybe if women had more say in the bicycle design, more women would ride bikes?
Your avatar does not look like a bike that most women would be looking for. But if women want to design bikes ... they should design bikes. Perhaps it's mostly men who do it, but there's no reason women can't do it too.

If a woman (or man) could design a bike that would get all the women out there on bikes ... it would be very lucrative.

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We can make a Ladies Bicycle that is as strong as a Mens Bicycle, with Carbon Fiber.
If you're referring to a step-through frame, it will be heavier than the equivalent diamond frame bike. There's no way around this -- any trick you can use to make the step-through frame lighter could be used to make the diamond-frame bike lighter too.

The difference is small, yes -- but it's there.
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Old 07-04-11, 11:57 AM   #115
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Another relevant article appeared today in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/ny...ewanted=1&_r=1

"Women, Uneasy, Still Lag as Cyclists in New York City"
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Old 07-04-11, 04:05 PM   #116
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So, in short, what you are saying is guys should shut up and bribe women to ride more because women are too scared to ride either with each other or with men who don't bribe them.

Why is it that American women require such special hand-holding to do what women in many other nations on every continent seem to be able to do with little coddling?

Frankly, if that's your attitude -- "I can't ride unless I'm bribed and coddled" -- just stay home.
oh yikes, I didn't realize making a joke here required this level of hand holding. I'll spell it out in caps lock next time, IT WAS A J O K E.

*shakes head* I wonder whats wrong with American men, so unable to understand conversation that isn't all about them (<--- hint, this a another joke. By no means am I going to put ALL men under an umbrella, like you did with women, I'm actually just referring to you with that comment). It's not about shutting up, like I said (maybe you missed it) it's about asking questions and encouraging the women in your life to ride. It's about listening to the women here, and not imposing your interpretations on our reasons (calling us "vain" as some users did).

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Denelle,

While I would agree with you that there have certainly been what could be construed as sexist attitudes in this thread and that, in general, male attitudes towards women might outwardly appear to be a reason women don't cycle I don't think that is entirely true. Most of the women I know don't let male attitudes stop them from doing things that they really want to do.
Whaaaat
I've heard from more than one women that has exited a sport (especially skateboarding and snowboarding for some reason) because of the attitudes they have to put up with from men. It wears you down, it's a struggle and sometimes, for some women, it just stops being worth it. It's a ****ty thing for you to infer it's because "they didn't really want it".

The biking world is full of sexisim, most of this thread for example.

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Not so simple. Even though I disagree that our roads are not bicycle friendly (though yes, they could be much friendlier), for the sake of discussion I'll accept that premise. How does that translate into less women riding? Are you saying that women are more timid than men? Less skilled? More easily intimidated? Inferior? What is it about women that makes the unfriendliness of the roads impact them more than men?
at least some of you are on the right track.

As for women not being as good as men at sports, I can't be tho only who really wondered what would happen if the mens & womens Canadian teams last Olympics played few rounds? When there is a possibility of girls being as good as guys, this kind of thing happens, so don't tell me "well, it's just because girls suck at sports" because she obviously doesn't and look at that **** this is causing. Girls are not encouraged to be athletic, and sometimes flat out unwelcome. Lifelong exposure to that attitude is going to factor in when girls make decisions about having an active lifestyle.
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Old 07-05-11, 02:46 AM   #117
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Not so simple. Even though I disagree that our roads are not bicycle friendly (though yes, they could be much friendlier), for the sake of discussion I'll accept that premise. How does that translate into less women riding? Are you saying that women are more timid than men? Less skilled? More easily intimidated? Inferior? What is it about women that makes the unfriendliness of the roads impact them more than men?
Uh, possibly that women are:

1) Physically weaker (as a rule) than men?
2) Have less experience in a fistfight?
3) Due (possibly) to lower testosterone levels, don't respond to physical threats by thinking, "Oh, goody, a chance to prove how macho I am"?
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Old 07-05-11, 09:53 AM   #118
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...because of the attitudes they have to put up with from men. It wears you down, it's a struggle and sometimes, for some women, it just stops being worth it. It's a ****ty thing for you to infer it's because "they didn't really want it"...
I'm sorry if you took my inference as offensive or sexist but I'm sticking with it. A lot of life is a struggle, sometimes it's other people's attitudes (of whatever gender) sometimes it's a whole lot of other stuff but "if it's worth it" you hang in there if "it's not worth it" then maybe you just didn't want it that bad.

As far as understanding "male attitudes" that can wear you down, while I certainly can't speak from the female perspective, I can tell you that those same men and same male attitudes do not solely target females. I started biking back in the late 60's, early 70's when riding a bicycle to high school was about as far from "cool" as one could get. I was a skinny, easily intimidated, book reading, library loving nerd and I was a target for every kid who wanted to prove how tough they were. I was often literally attacked while riding my bike. I wish I could brag that I fought back "manfully" but basically I got beat up a lot. But I rode my bike every single day to that school. So loathsome was my high school experience that I refused to have a high school picture in the yearbook. Fortunately, some of my bookish friends were on the yearbook committee and placed a picture of my bicycle locked to a tree in the middle of an empty snow covered field in front of the high school in it's place.

But for all the crap that was dished out by the males around my bike riding the one thing that almost made me give up riding a bike to high school was the not the male attitudes but the female attitudes towards me- I was so shunned and mocked by the cool girls, who cozied up to the very same males who tossed the bottles and swerved their jacked up cars at me as I rode my bike that I was tempted to toss the bike, buy a car and start throwing crap at anyone who rode a bike since it seemed to garner so much positive female attention. Fortunately, I had enough supportive females in my life at that point that I knew they did not represent "all women" just like the males who gave me so much grief did not represent "all men". But this is what I mean about a "cultural attitude" about people on bikes having more impact than an attitude of one particular sex. My guess is those "cool girls" would have been extraordinarily vicious to a high school female riding a bike to school.

I do not mean to diminish the existence or power of sexism nor to make equivalent the kind of abuse men dump on one another to the kinds of abuse they dump on women. But to imply that the freedom that comes with riding a bike just "isn't worth it" because of male attitudes keeps women in a "victim mode" that I refuse to accept. I have more faith in women than that, I've seen again and again women who say, "screw the cultural stereotype I'm doing what I want." and I've been inspired by them every single time, despite my gender.

If you care to lump me with the same males that dump on women for riding bikes, snowboarding or doing any number of things that may be seen as more traditionally male venues feel free to do so but I would say that you lose a valuable ally. Your post shows a willingness to fight and speak your mind and I say more power to it even if you take my comments out of context and use them to fuel your fire. And thanks for bringing attention to my post. I'm only too willing to more carefully examine my own attitudes or at least how I express them in on-line forums so that they are more supportive of women riding bikes.
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Old 07-05-11, 09:57 AM   #119
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But I rode my bike every single day to that school. So loathsome was my high school experience that I refused to have a high school picture in the yearbook. Fortunately, some of my bookish friends were on the yearbook committee and placed a picture of my bicycle locked to a tree in the middle of an empty snow covered field in front of the high school in it's place.
Wild, man.

Susan B Anthony was telling women to suck it up and just get riding a hundred and twenty years ago.

"Let me tell you what I think of bicycling. I think it has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world. It gives women a feeling of freedom and self-reliance. I stand and rejoice every time I see a woman ride by on a wheel...the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood." Susan B. Anthony

As to the issue of ridership and participation by women...... its safety all the way, for both men AND women. People have hopefully read the four types of cyclist by Portland office of transportations Roger Geller.

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Survey after survey and poll after poll has found again and again that the number one
reason people do not ride bicycles is because they are afraid to be in the roadway on a
bicycle.

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Old 07-05-11, 10:02 AM   #120
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Uh, possibly that women are:

1) Physically weaker (as a rule) than men?
2) Have less experience in a fistfight?
3) Due (possibly) to lower testosterone levels, don't respond to physical threats by thinking, "Oh, goody, a chance to prove how macho I am"?
wtf does any of that have to do with riding a bicycle in traffic? It doesn't take exceptional physical strength and fist fights/pecker size contests are obviously neither required nor ideal.
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Old 07-05-11, 10:19 AM   #121
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Well, you asked why driver aggression (or words to that effect) would be a particular deterrant to women. I responded that women would be particularly inclined to avoid something that might degenerate into physical confrontation because they are (generally) physically more poorly equipped to handle it, and notably less "hard-wired" to view winning such a confrontation as validation of gender.
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Old 07-05-11, 10:49 AM   #122
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Well, you asked why driver aggression (or words to that effect) would be a particular deterrant to women. I responded that women would be particularly inclined to avoid something that might degenerate into physical confrontation because they are (generally) physically more poorly equipped to handle it, and notably less "hard-wired" to view winning such a confrontation as validation of gender.
No, I asked why "unfriendly roads" would be a detriment specifically to women...unfriendly being a design thing, not a crappy driver thing.

I am sorry you underestimate women so badly though. You'll grow out of it.
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Old 07-05-11, 10:58 AM   #123
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Try the women I rode with on Sunday. They would beat that opinion out of him.
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Old 07-05-11, 11:56 AM   #124
Paul Barnard
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There are a significant number of activites that are dominated by one gender or the other. The poster a few pages back who said it is a cultural thing was right on.
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Old 07-05-11, 03:40 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Antaresia View Post
I've heard from more than one women that has exited a sport (especially skateboarding and snowboarding for some reason) because of the attitudes they have to put up with from men. It wears you down, it's a struggle and sometimes, for some women, it just stops being worth it. It's a ****ty thing for you to infer it's because "they didn't really want it".
Look, sweetie, trash-talking has been a part of every sport I've ever been in. If you can't take the heat, go back to the kitchen. But that's really beside the point, as we aren't talking about cycling-as-sport so much as we're also talking about cycling-as-lifestyle; you know, riding to work, the library, your book discussion group...the guys' comments hold girls back from that? Really?
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