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  1. #201
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
    Of course, none of that has anything to do with gender..
    Yeah but the interesting part is, that some think it does.

    Hey I can't stand the LBS... too many choices that really amount to nothing, and too many opinionated sales folks that really don't know squat. Couple it all with attitude and it's easy to see why I've been riding the same bike since the '80s and use the internet for my equipment purchases.

    Nope, not a gender issue at all.

  2. #202
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Handlebars "fell off"? Hopefully your child escaped uninjured from such a catastrophic equipment failure. It is hard for me to understand that failure mode, particularly on a small bike. Handlebars so loose due to poor assembly allowing them to "fall off" on the first ride surely would have been noticed by any parent with ANY knowledge at all before handing the bike off to their child for the first time. Perhaps your husband can provide some details or a picture.
    I know you are trying to be your usual sarcastic and thoughtful self, but indeed there are folks out there that couldn't tell a socket wrench from a Phillips screwdriver... much less a hex wrench from Posi-drive... and they have no idea that one bolt may be all that need be tightened to make sure a stem doesn't pop out of a steering tube, or that one pedal screws on one way and the other pedal screws on the other way. It always amazes me that such folks can manage to tie their shoes each day... but the reality is that we all don't have the same talents.

    I am reminded of this daily by my artist wife... so this is not a lesson I forget. She hangs out with other artist types, so I often get to see that certain folks really can't use a screwdriver.

    On the other hand, I work with engineers... who design and build complex communication systems... so I am reminded that there are folks that could also speak metric and know a thing or two about hardware. (I do my own wrenching... so I fit strongly into this category)

    My point being that it is quite possible for someone to go into a store, purchase something like a bike, expect it to be built and ready, and then go out and discover that "the wheels fall off," and not understand why or what to do. And yes, this can happen through an LBS purchase as well as a Big Box Purchase.

  3. #203
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denelle View Post
    Maybe I didn't explain it right :blush: Here's a picture.
    Whoa, ILTB, isn't that bike just like yours?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  4. #204
    Senior Member KD5NRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    I know you are trying to be your usual sarcastic and thoughtful self, but indeed there are folks out there that couldn't tell a socket wrench from a Phillips screwdriver... much less a hex wrench from Posi-drive... and they have no idea that one bolt may be all that need be tightened to make sure a stem doesn't pop out of a steering tube, or that one pedal screws on one way and the other pedal screws on the other way. It always amazes me that such folks can manage to tie their shoes each day... but the reality is that we all don't have the same talents.
    Listen to <2 year old cars accelerate and notice how many have rattling lifters. There are people that don't even understand the car needs oil from time to time.

    On the other hand, I work with engineers... who design and build complex communication systems... so I am reminded that there are folks that could also speak metric and know a thing or two about hardware.
    And then there are the purely theoretical engineers, who can design things that don't work at all and try to blame it on the machinists.

  5. #205
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    I know you are trying to be your usual sarcastic and thoughtful self, but indeed there are folks out there that couldn't tell a socket wrench from a Phillips screwdriver... much less a hex wrench from Posi-drive... and they have no idea that one bolt may be all that need be tightened to make sure a stem doesn't pop out of a steering tube,...
    Danelle already acknowleged her lack of understanding about bike parts and assembly but also said her husband was knowledgeable. My point is - did he not at least give a once over look at this bike before handing it to the child for her first ride. Should have seen such a loose assembly, if that is indeed what caused the handlebars (or whatever) to "fall off" on the first use.

  6. #206
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    Whoa, ILTB, isn't that bike just like yours?
    Handlebars and handle bar stems falling off is the last of my bike worries, they are so rusted in place that they could only be moved/removed with a torch.

  7. #207
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
    Listen to <2 year old cars accelerate and notice how many have rattling lifters. There are people that don't even understand the car needs oil from time to time.
    Heck yes, everyone should know that is what the oil light is for - when it comes on add a quart.

  8. #208
    Senior Member Denelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Danelle already acknowleged her lack of understanding about bike parts and assembly but also said her husband was knowledgeable. My point is - did he not at least give a once over look at this bike before handing it to the child for her first ride. Should have seen such a loose assembly, if that is indeed what caused the handlebars (or whatever) to "fall off" on the first use.
    A lot can be learned in the 7-8 years since this happened.

  9. #209
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
    Listen to <2 year old cars accelerate and notice how many have rattling lifters. There are people that don't even understand the car needs oil from time to time.
    Oh the thing that gets me is riding by a cyclist and hearing the chain squeak as you approach and pass and wondering if they are deaf or not... or understand the basic concept of "lubrication." I mean when the thing just squeals from being so dry... ya gotta wonder.

    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post

    And then there are the purely theoretical engineers, who can design things that don't work at all and try to blame it on the machinists.
    Yup, dealt with those too... who hand me calculations down to the 6th decimal place and don't understand why it doesn't work in our +/- .005 world. ("what do you mean they don't make a .02156 pico farad capacitor... " ) D'oh!

    Usually those types are few and far between, and have written some brilliant theoretical paper which "gave them the grade," but they often don't go much beyond that.

    Most of the folks I work with can solder and know the difference between a machine screw and a wood screw.

  10. #210
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    I think people need to be clear about what the purpose (of a particular "women's only" ride) is. Then, one can discuss whether or not leaders (who happen to be male) can support that purpose.

    While I might agree that it would be preferable to have women leaders, I assume that there is probably some reasonable (and boring) explanation of why that isn't happening.

    Given the apparent popularity of this ride (50 people is a huge turn-out), it doesn't seem necessary to have women leaders for this ride.
    I have done a number of rides with the bicycle club of philadelphia. They are always looking for leaders of ride. Why don't I do it? I am tired of being a leader all the time. Sometimes it would be nice to just follow along and not have to have the responsibility.

    I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me).

    Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  11. #211
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
    Amen!
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  12. #212
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
    Why forget about "showing up at a ride" organized by others, and just get on your bike and ride wherever/whenever you feel like it?

  13. #213
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Why forget about "showing up at a ride" organized by others, and just get on your bike and ride wherever/whenever you feel like it?
    perhaps that is one of the differences between her (women) and us (men) that is relevant to the OP - we (men) can go out on a ride by ourselves in relative peace, women, sadly, not so much (generally speaking).
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  14. #214
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Why forget about "showing up at a ride" organized by others, and just get on your bike and ride wherever/whenever you feel like it?
    I do that more than 100 miles a week(5-6 days) every single week, nearly every week of the year. But sometimes I like to ride in another area with other human beings that can ride the speed and distances I do. My friends can't, so the only option to not ride alone(unless I feel like riding at a 9mph average) is to join a group ride. Also, group rides often push me more since I am forced to keep up with people who may be faster. I had done the Sunday breakfast ride(30 miles) a few years ago and it was really nice. BUT it also involved a journey through Camden NJ(most dangerous city in America). No freakin way I would ride there by myself.

    It is just a nice change of pace to riding by myself or riding with family/friends at an excruciatingly slow pace. And guess what, I am the leader for my family rides. If the chain falls off of someone's bike, it is my job to fix it. I lube and maintenance all the bikes. I pull the trailer with my twins in it, not the others. I plan the routes since I know every single road in this area from 4 mile loops to 50+ mile loops including elevation changes.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  15. #215
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    perhaps that is one of the differences between her (women) and us (men) that is relevant to the OP - we (men) can go out on a ride by ourselves in relative peace, women, sadly, not so much (generally speaking).

    Now, I tend to be a loner anyway, so I enjoy my quiet time along on the bike. And I have no qualms about beating someone with my u-lock if necessary. So fear isn't a factor for me per se.

    But aside from the fear factor, many women are quite social. If their friends don't bike, they may not be inclined to bike alone solely because they would prefer company. I often see many women walking for fitness in groups, more so than alone. Maybe that is why the female group rides have tons of women?
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  16. #216
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Now, I tend to be a loner anyway, so I enjoy my quiet time along on the bike. And I have no qualms about beating someone with my u-lock if necessary. So fear isn't a factor for me per se.

    But aside from the fear factor, many women are quite social. If their friends don't bike, they may not be inclined to bike alone solely because they would prefer company. I often see many women walking for fitness in groups, more so than alone. Maybe that is why the female group rides have tons of women?
    Good point on the social aspect...which is why Cheri likes to do group rides more than I do. Having a wife that rides is a double-edged sword...it makes it even harder for me to get my alone-time rides in. Sometimes she just doesn't get that her being along just gives me someone else to watch over...which is exactly what I want to get away from.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    I think people need to be clear about what the purpose (of a particular "women's only" ride) is. Then, one can discuss whether or not leaders (who happen to be male) can support that purpose.

    While I might agree that it would be preferable to have women leaders, I assume that there is probably some reasonable (and boring) explanation of why that isn't happening.

    Given the apparent popularity of this ride (50 people is a huge turn-out), it doesn't seem necessary to have women leaders for this ride.
    I have done a number of rides with the bicycle club of philadelphia. They are always looking for leaders of ride. Why don't I do it? I am tired of being a leader all the time. Sometimes it would be nice to just follow along and not have to have the responsibility.

    I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me).

    Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
    Your reply to my comment isn't really related to anything I said!

    I haven't said that people should be leaders. They just should not be overly picky about the leaders they do get.

    I'm really talking about people who want leaders "complaining" that the leaders they do get happen to be men (or whatever)!

    I have no problem with people not wanting to lead or not wanting to ride with clubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    I do that more than 100 miles a week(5-6 days) every single week, nearly every week of the year. But sometimes I like to ride in another area with other human beings that can ride the speed and distances I do. My friends can't, so the only option to not ride alone(unless I feel like riding at a 9mph average) is to join a group ride. Also, group rides often push me more since I am forced to keep up with people who may be faster. I had done the Sunday breakfast ride(30 miles) a few years ago and it was really nice. BUT it also involved a journey through Camden NJ(most dangerous city in America). No freakin way I would ride there by myself.
    Clubs are a cooperative effort. There is work that clubs need doing that isn't leading.

    While it's unfortunate that many club members don't contribute to their club, that's just the way things are. It is, though, annoying when those people are overly picky about things!

    Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too!
    Last edited by njkayaker; 07-15-11 at 12:30 PM.

  18. #218
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too!
    Only if you're in a hurry and are afraid to eat a little wind
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    Only if you're in a hurry and are afraid to eat a little wind
    (No, it's a bit more than just that!)
    Last edited by njkayaker; 07-15-11 at 12:43 PM.

  20. #220
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    Your reply to my comment isn't really related to anything I said!

    I haven't said that people should be leaders. They just should not be overly picky about the leaders they do get.

    I'm really talking about people who want leaders "complaining" that the leaders they do get happen to be men (or whatever)!

    I have no problem with people not wanting to lead or not wanting to ride with clubs.


    Clubs are a cooperative effort. There is work that clubs need doing that isn't leading.

    While it's unfortunate that many club members don't contribute to their club, that's just the way things are. It is, though, annoying when those people are overly picky about things!

    Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too!

    Well, now that is dumb. You don't get the right to complain about who is leading, when one isn't willing to lead. Heck, in my house we have a rule. If you aren't the one doing the activity you forfeit the right to complain about how it is being done. For example, don't come to me after I just spent 7 hours building a raised bed garden(by myself) and hauling 1,500 lbs of dirt to complain that you would really have preferred it be made of cedar instead. It is a rule that works well in my house and keeps everyone feeling appreciated and sane. Too bad more people don't have that rule in life.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Well, now that is dumb. You don't get the right to complain about who is leading, when one isn't willing to lead. Heck, in my house we have a rule. If you aren't the one doing the activity you forfeit the right to complain about how it is being done. For example, don't come to me after I just spent 7 hours building a raised bed garden(by myself) and hauling 1,500 lbs of dirt to complain that you would really have preferred it be made of cedar instead. It is a rule that works well in my house and keeps everyone feeling appreciated and sane. Too bad more people don't have that rule in life.
    That's what I was addressing!

    To be clear, sunstorm wasn't really complaining but it's not clear that there is any real issue with the leaders of the apparently-popular "women only" being men.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 07-15-11 at 12:53 PM.

  22. #222
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    (No, it's a bit more than just that!)
    actually it isn't
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    actually it isn't
    So, I guess you think it's OK to weave or ride unpredictably on group rides. It also seems that you would not point out any hazards to other people in the group or help people out who are having problems.

  24. #224
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    That's what I was addressing!

    To be clear, sunstorm wasn't really complaining but it's not clear that there is any real issue with the leaders of the apparently-popular "women only" being men.

    I know, I was agreeing with you. That sort of thing is my personal pet peeve. I hate that!!!

    My motto is: If you don't like it, but didn't do it, don't complain about it. If you still don't like it, do something about it yourself.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  25. #225
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    So, I guess you think it's OK to weave or ride unpredictably on group rides. It also seems that you would not point out any hazards to other people in the group or help people out who are having problems.
    So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

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