buzzman

Hate to gender bash here (especially when it's my own gender) but this is where guys get it all wrong. Most every woman I know learned to discern the "lecherous look" by the time they were about 15 years of age. So I would defer to their expertise and judgement on this issue. To even suggest that you, as a guy, know better earns us yet more of these and is why we so often hear the phrase, "You just don't get it, do you?"

"Lecherous men" are something women are confronted by on a daily basis every where- walking down the street, going shopping, going to the beach, going to a club or a bar, going to work but women do all of those things. So I'm not sure it's all that much of a reason for women to not ride a bike particularly.

sunstorm

Sorry, I phrased part of that very poorly. I am not actually saying it is the ride organizers fault, or the solid female rider's faults or the LBS's fault. I am saying it raises some questions, for me, that on an all female ride (hence this IS a women's only ride already) all of the leadership for as long as any of the leaders can remember (so at least the last 6 years) has been all male.

Am I really the only person that thinks that on a weekly women only ride where at least 50 women are riding the leadership for as long as anyone recalls is all male? If this was a mixed group ride, it wouldn't have really struck me as odd.

sunstorm

Another observation tonight.

I stopped at a book store on the way home (on my bike). To get to any biking magazines, I had to paw past a bunch of car/motorcycle magazines with half naked (or more) women on them. Here the magazines are in the transport section. That encourages my interest ;-) Then, as I flipped through the magazines, the first article I came to by/about a female rider described her stripping her shirt and bra off to find freedom on a long day of solo riding, and how she'd fib and say she was a 15yo boy if anyone stopped her. Yeah, that's someone I can empathize with....as I look at the 38DDs that I wouldn't dare free on a ride since every bump would hurt! It just comes across that biking is targeted at men. Not saying that is wrong, just an observation.

Bethany

After riding now for something like 2 mos and the past week has been hell, I may have an answer. It's a giant PITA.

Most women and everyone else are going to gasp..Walmart to get a bike. After all, LBS bikes cost a fortune and the Walmart bike is 150 bucks. Not knowing any better, the bike doesn't seem "right" due to it being the wrong size and after realizing that you suck going around the block a few times, it gets dumped into the garage (that's if it doesn't fall apart after the first time around the block). Why try cycling again after that experience?

If she goes to a LBS, it's easy to lost in everything the guy says, even if he knows his stuff and means well. Size? Fittings? I didn't know that got so freaking detailed down to top tubes and all the other unknown named parts on a bike you can change. Every store I've been to has something different to add to the confusion. Cadence? Clipless shoes/pedals? Raise this..lower that... You need this part A to make that work better. All I wanted to do was to ride a stupid bike not change every part as store A "may" have fitted me wrong.

After realizing you suck (and we women are hard on ourselves) but keep going after some time, you realize you still can't get on/off the damn bike without nailing the right side of your leg against the front gears leaving small gashes. Your legs are bruised because the pedals keep banging them up trying to get it out of the garage and the large handprint size bruise on your thigh from who knows what probably makes people people think your DH abuses you.

And then, when you start thinking about the cost of it all, you realize you could have had that new washer/dryer set you were looking at a couple of months ago instead.

So now, can someone explain why I was drooling over a Surly Pugsley and came home with a Brooks B17 saddle today for my Sirrus to see how it compares to the B17 narrow for my thigh eating Madone? And I know I don't even have the strength to truly enjoy the Pugsley which makes it that much more depressing.

At least I feel better venting..LOL. Now if someone can "fix" my thigh eating Madone, it would be much appreciated.

gcottay

Okay, I'm here. Is there some point you are trying to make?

buzzman

I find it odd. And it seems to defeat the point. But then I also think it's an interesting phenomenon that in order for women to feel comfortable biking in a group they need to get rid of the men. My friend just did an all women's carpentry class, taught by women and not a guy in sight. She loved it.

Please note I said I found it "interesting" and am not implying a judgment on it as either good or bad. I know that I sometimes ride "with the guys". It's not intentionally gender exclusive but I admit there's a camaraderie that's different from a mixed gender ride.

BarracksSi

Of course, none of that has anything to do with gender..

I-Like-To-Bike

Apparently you did learn something from your visits to the various LBs'. You gathered all the conventional wisdom you need to know about Walmart bikes from your "experiences" with the bike pros at the LBS. Falling for that stuff, hook, line and sinkeris not a woman thing, as BF is filled with posts from men who repeat the same LBS sales rap too.

chipcom 

me too

njkayaker

What I'm saying is that if they could (easily) get women to lead the ride, they would do so. I'm assuming there's a reason/purpose for making the ride "women only" and the current (male) leaders are running the ride are doing so with that reason/purpose in mind.

For your situation, it may be a choice between having male leaders or having no ride. In my situation, given that my club is large with many women, my club would (likely) have women leaders. (Our club has 1450 members with 106 leaders, 41 of which are female.)

You sound awfully suspicious!

Clubs are run by volunteers who don't get a lot of benefit from their volunteer work. I'd guess (if it's anything like my club) that they would be quite happy to have women lead the ride!

If it's a reasonable group, you should be able to ask the leaders about it.

njkayaker

I think people need to be clear about what the purpose (of a particular "women's only" ride) is. Then, one can discuss whether or not leaders (who happen to be male) can support that purpose.

While I might agree that it would be preferable to have women leaders, I assume that there is probably some reasonable (and boring) explanation of why that isn't happening.

Given the apparent popularity of this ride (50 people is a huge turn-out), it doesn't seem necessary to have women leaders for this ride.

Denelle

I had to smile at this. I didn't even KNOW that bikes were sold any place besides Walmart until I was in my early 20s and bought my daughter a bike. We made the mistake of buying our young daughter one of her first bikes from Walmart. It was assembled, of course, by some minimum wage worker who apparently didn't know what he was doing, because the handlebars fell off the first time she rode it (she was maybe 6-7 at the time). I will never ever buy another Walmart bike because of that!

Oh, and changing out different parts of the bike? I'm totally in AWE of how my knowledge my husband has of bicycles. I'll admit that it totally goes directly over my head when he is talking to me (although I promise I try hard to understand!).

I-Like-To-Bike

Handlebars "fell off"? Hopefully your child escaped uninjured from such a catastrophic equipment failure. It is hard for me to understand that failure mode, particularly on a small bike. Handlebars so loose due to poor assembly allowing them to "fall off" on the first ride surely would have been noticed by any parent with ANY knowledge at all before handing the bike off to their child for the first time. Perhaps your husband can provide some details or a picture.

Denelle

Yes, they fell off. She's 14 now, so I'll definitely have to have him pop in here with the details, but I do vividly remember that they came off

I-Like-To-Bike

Thanks. An equipment failure such as you mentioned should have initiated a product recall.

Denelle

Maybe I didn't explain it right :blush: Here's a picture.

genec

Yeah but the interesting part is, that some think it does.

Hey I can't stand the LBS... too many choices that really amount to nothing, and too many opinionated sales folks that really don't know squat. Couple it all with attitude and it's easy to see why I've been riding the same bike since the '80s and use the internet for my equipment purchases.

Nope, not a gender issue at all.

genec

I know you are trying to be your usual sarcastic and thoughtful self, but indeed there are folks out there that couldn't tell a socket wrench from a Phillips screwdriver... much less a hex wrench from Posi-drive... and they have no idea that one bolt may be all that need be tightened to make sure a stem doesn't pop out of a steering tube, or that one pedal screws on one way and the other pedal screws on the other way. It always amazes me that such folks can manage to tie their shoes each day... but the reality is that we all don't have the same talents.

I am reminded of this daily by my artist wife... so this is not a lesson I forget. She hangs out with other artist types, so I often get to see that certain folks really can't use a screwdriver.

On the other hand, I work with engineers... who design and build complex communication systems... so I am reminded that there are folks that could also speak metric and know a thing or two about hardware. (I do my own wrenching... so I fit strongly into this category)

My point being that it is quite possible for someone to go into a store, purchase something like a bike, expect it to be built and ready, and then go out and discover that "the wheels fall off," and not understand why or what to do. And yes, this can happen through an LBS purchase as well as a Big Box Purchase.

chipcom 

Whoa, ILTB, isn't that bike just like yours?

KD5NRH

Listen to <2 year old cars accelerate and notice how many have rattling lifters. There are people that don't even understand the car needs oil from time to time.

And then there are the purely theoretical engineers, who can design things that don't work at all and try to blame it on the machinists.

I-Like-To-Bike

Danelle already acknowleged her lack of understanding about bike parts and assembly but also said her husband was knowledgeable. My point is - did he not at least give a once over look at this bike before handing it to the child for her first ride. Should have seen such a loose assembly, if that is indeed what caused the handlebars (or whatever) to "fall off" on the first use.

I-Like-To-Bike

Handlebars and handle bar stems falling off is the last of my bike worries, they are so rusted in place that they could only be moved/removed with a torch.

I-Like-To-Bike

Heck yes, everyone should know that is what the oil light is for - when it comes on add a quart.

Denelle

A lot can be learned in the 7-8 years since this happened.

genec

Oh the thing that gets me is riding by a cyclist and hearing the chain squeak as you approach and pass and wondering if they are deaf or not... or understand the basic concept of "lubrication." I mean when the thing just squeals from being so dry... ya gotta wonder.

Yup, dealt with those too... who hand me calculations down to the 6th decimal place and don't understand why it doesn't work in our +/- .005 world. ("what do you mean they don't make a .02156 pico farad capacitor... " ) D'oh!

Usually those types are few and far between, and have written some brilliant theoretical paper which "gave them the grade," but they often don't go much beyond that.

Most of the folks I work with can solder and know the difference between a machine screw and a wood screw.