Brontide

I didn't miss the or, it's completely inapplicable here. Riding on public streets is hardly a function that requires registration as a security officer.

Shimagnolo

I once encountered what I thought was a cop, (vest, radio), but turned out to be one of these guys: https://www.longmontweekly.com/longmo...ty/ci_17753366

So you could join an organization like that to get official-looking gear to ride in.

chipcom 

Whatever happened to the good ole days when all you needed for people to think you were either a cop, security guard or mass-murdering psycho, was a large set of keys hanging off your belt?

Scrockern8r

^Those folks are commonly assumed to be high school janitors these days.

Digital_Cowboy

The solution than is to wear a shirt/jersey that reads:

Or

Neighborhood
Crime
Watch

Or something along those groups are made up of volunteers, the person wearing such a shirt/jersey could well be a member of the neighborhood patrol.

Digital_Cowboy

And as we know there are also a lot of people who for better or worse never really look their age. They either look several years older or younger than what they really are. Or they could be undercover (yes, I know an undercover cop probably isn't going to be likely to be wearing any item of clothing that screams police). But than again if it's old enough and dirty enough, etc. it could look as if the undercover cop/agent is a homeless person wearing whatever they can find to wear.

Digital_Cowboy

Don't forget janitor or maintenance worker.

Shimagnolo

I had a job for 7 years with a uniform and large set of keys hanging from my belt. They were the keys that opened every door in the building the except the pharmacy. I was in the HVAC, elec, plumbing dept of a hospital.

Zaneluke

People who hate bicyclists and people who hate police are different. One group of them tend to be armed with rounds in the chamber.

Digital_Cowboy

Also correct me if I'm mistaken but those who are using the First Amendment to "defend" wearing a shirt that says any of the following:


Etc. need to stop and remember that yes the freedom of speech is on of our most powerful rights/freedoms, but that as you said one can still be held accountable for the consequences of their words. Such as yes, we have the right or freedom of speech to say the word fire.

But IF one goes in to a crowded theater or restaurant and yells the word "Fire" at the top of their lungs. And in the ensuing panic several people are injured or killed the person who yelled fire can and will be held accountable for their actions.

Likewise all those who in that other thread that was linked to by another member who advocate using any of the agencies in the above list but misspelling them, such as:


Given that the intent is still to mislead the public into thinking that they're a member of those agencies, they could still find themselves in legal hot water. But anyone who thinks that it would be a good idea to wear such a shirt I suggest that you find a good lawyer (probably two, one criminal and one Constitutional) to be sure how legal you are.

dougmc

You know, this example gets trotted out every time somebody talks about how our First Amendment rights aren't absolute. And that's fine -- it often fits.

However, I can't see how this message could be translated to a T-shirt. If the shirt said "FIRE" ... so what? Even if the shirt said "I HAVE EBOLA" -- people would think you're weird rather than sick of Ebola.

kjmillig

Wearing a "POLICE" shirt to get people to give you a wide berth MAY be procecutable under the Texas Penal Code, Section 37.12 - False Identification as Peace Officer; Misrepresentation of Property.
If people passing you on the road believe you are an LEO, and by admission you are wearing it with that implied intent, then do not be surprised if the real police stop and question you and possibly charge you. Then you can cite the 1st Amendment to them and the judge. Good luck.

kenji666

Your standard scripted response: "I didn't know I couldn't do that."

powerhouse

I wouldn't recommend that people wear shirts and other clothing that bears POLICE, SHERIFF, FBI, and other names of law enforcement agencies as it could get one into trouble for impersonating an officer. Imagine someone approaching you and asking you for help but you can't because you have no real law enforcement powers.

But even when your riding clothes don't have the name or abreviation of a law enforcement agency on them, it's possible to be mistaken as one. When out riding on Mount Desert Island's carriage paths one day, I stopped to rest at a restaurand and store at the center of the Island. I wore a red and blue shortsleeved cycling jersey which said BICYCLE COALITION OF MAINE (bicycle club) on the upper back in white letters and SHARE THE ROAD in yellow on the bottom. I also wore black cycling shorts. Both were wet from light rain earlier in the day. I then put on long, black spandex pants and covered the jersey with an unmarked yellow wind jacket. I dried off the inside of my helmet (blue) and put it back on.

After getting some energy bars and a cup of coffee, I sat down outside the two buildings to rest and eat. Over this time, other bicyclists had pulled up and parked their bikes near where I sat. Restaurant patrons from various other countries also came out and began talking in numerous languages while looking at me. After a while, one of them approached me and asked, "Excuse me, Sir. Are you in charge of bicycle security?" "No," I replied to the well-dressed woman, "Why do you ask?" The lady and a few of the other people with her thought I was a bicycle-mounted member of the Park Service. It was true that some members of the Park Service did patrol the carriage paths on mountain bikes but my bicycling clothes did not look like the uniforms they wore. After explaining that I was just a civilian, they understood and went on their way.

Digital_Cowboy

And I believe that their standard scripted response would be: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

KD5NRH

Neither is making an arrest, guarding an area or physically preventing someone entering a door. When you start implying that you're being paid to do those things is when you're performing functions that require licensing.

MMACH 5

I have a shirt that says "VOLUNTEER" on it. It has about the same effect. I mean who wants to be the jackhat harassing someone who gives back to their community?

kenji666

Is thi illegal too?

https://www.amazon.com/POLICE-T-shirt.../dp/B0017ZXE82

Digital_Cowboy

For all those who have considered (or have worn) wearing one of those shirts in order to get more "respect" on the road from other road users. Why not begin with the method that doesn't cost a dime?

Why not ride in a legal and responsible manner? As well as supporting and encouraging others to ride in a legal and responsible manner?

If you see a ninja politely let them know that they're required to have lights on their bike after the sun has gone down and before it comes up. If they say that they can't afford them offer to buy them a cheap set that will meet the requirements of the law i.e. that they're being seen. As well as again politely reminding them that a bungy cord and a flashlight will keep them legal (for a headlight that is).
If you see a salmon rider politely tell them why it's wrong to ride against traffic.
If you see someone who is running red lights/stop signs again politely let them know that it's wrong.

Politely, and respectfully let them know how their actions (whether they should or shouldn't) reflects badly on all cyclists.

Let motorists see that you are willing to share the road (which doesn't always mean sharing the lane). Let motorists see that cyclists can obey the laws of the road.

If we as cyclists could that, then "we" wouldn't need to wear shirts/jersey's that make it appear that we're somehow in the law enforcement field or use other "tricks" in order to get respect from other road users. To get respect we have to be willing to show it. And as I said we can show it by riding with lights when the sun is down, not running traffic lights/stop sings, riding with the flow of traffic.

Besides the other dangers that have been pointed out in regards to wearing a shirt that suggests (even if it contains "fine print" that "clarifies" the message) i.e. becoming the target of someone who has an ax to grind with the real police, or having someone coming up to one thinking that they're a cop and asking for help. Think about this, even if someone doesn't have an ax to grind with the real cops. But need to help and they find out that you are not really a cop they may decide to "pay you back" for deceiving them.

The bottom line is that there are too many risks/costs associated with "tricking" the public in this way to get respect, especially when the easiest way doesn't cost a dime. Just show respect and you'll get it. Yes, given all of the bad blood that currently exists it may take a while, but you'll/we'll get it.

dahut

To the OP:
I'm gonna do something a little different here. I say GO FOR IT!
I get by your responses in this thread that you will probably do what you want, no matter what anyone says.
Never mind respect, self respect or good sense. Never mind this makes you a sorry wannabe. Forget that it may make you a perpetrator and land you on the WRONG side of the law. You go right ahead.

Make sure everybody sees you, in fact. If it works, great. If it gets you in trouble, great.
If you can't figure out yourself that you shouldn't do it, well... it probably wont do any good for us to tell you that.

If you feel the need to coerce un-deserved, false respect from people, I personally would go with a shirt that says:

spock

I wanna get me a t shirt that says:

LOVE POLICE

LJ325

So anyway... I have a t-shirt with block letters on the back that read POLICE. Since I've been wearing that, I've enjoyed a much wider berth on the road. Life is good and I'm not doing anything illegal.

spacerconrad

It has to be scripted, because it's misleading at best. The actual quote only refers to natural law, that which is obvious (don't kill, steal, etc.) as opposed to that which is codified and can NOT be known to all... in fact, there are people (lawyers and judges) who are well paid to interpret the vast piles of legalese, yet do not know all of it themselves, when we the people... who are usually occupying our minds with more productive pursuits, are still liable for following laws we know nothing about.
I have to wonder how many of us commit felonies every day without even realizing it. How many people put prescription medication in those nifty day-by-day containers? Felons, all of 'em... drug felons, no less. Can't legally carry Rx drugs outside their properly marked container.

As far as functions which require licensing... I guess it just depends on how much influence the related cartels have on the local and state government. Can't be dissin' Uncle Vinnie's shop, now.

alhedges

The quote applies to all law. Ignorance of the law is *not* an excuse. If you do something illegal, you can be prosecuted even if you didn't know it was illegal. Natural law does not demand that you have a driver's license to drive a car, but you will be prosecuted if you don't have one, even if you didn't know the law or thought it didn't apply to you.

Most of the laws that apply to most people are pretty well known, though. (And it's not a crime in my state to carry prescription drugs in an unmarked container...although it might not be a good idea).

The really complicated laws that you need legal advice to comply with only really apply to people in special situations. For example, if you operate a facility that produces hazardous waste, there are all kinds of laws that have to be followed concerning production, storage, disposal, etc. I have no idea what most of these laws are (and some of them change every year)...but if I operated a hazardous waste facility, I will be held to all of these laws. Which is why I might need to hire someone to make sure I was complying with the applicable laws. But you won't get off just because you didn't know that oxygen tanks had to be stored separately.

(Although in many highly-regulated areas, there is an increased penalty for a "willful" violation).

spacerconrad

Sure, right up until the point where the nice officer (who also probably can't quote every law he's expected to enforce) nails ya for something you didn't know about.
There. I've said my piece... gonna go read about bicycles for a while now.

https://reason.com/archives/2010/08/0...-law-is-no-exc