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Old 11-14-04, 09:05 PM   #1
Laika
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I ran right into a car door that a motorist placed directly in my path! Granted, we probably could have arranged something a little more elegant than me pitching over my handlebars and landing on my ass had he not caught me completely by surprise, but I do what I can with what I have!

Special thanks to his girlfriend, who started telling me it was my fault for hitting the car door. And I'd like to tell the motorist that when I told him, "Shut that b*tch up" I really just wanted her to be able to hear the constructive dialogue I was having with him.

It's nice when cyclists and motorists get along, and I especially like having a chance to share my concerns and thoughts regarding "sharing the road."

The massive bruises on my arms from where I hit the door, the pavement and a parked car are thrilling souveiners of a worthwhile and stimulating encounter, as is the large patch of scraped and scabbed flesh on my thigh and knee. And I'd like you to know, dear motorist, that I called you "motherf*cker" with the greatest possible sense of respect and affection.



















(this is one of the many reasons i ride cm and refuse to apologize for it.)
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Old 11-15-04, 07:33 AM   #2
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did you get their drivers licence #? or a name? or at least copy down the licence plate #? Get their insurance company to pay for their clients' neglegence. Dooring is illegal. Call a doctor, get yourself checked out, then call a lawyer! I'm serious!
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Old 11-15-04, 12:22 PM   #3
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Lawsuits will do more than CM. When drivers are held accountable for their actions and failures, they will become more aware, because it costs them money otherwise.

Recover your damages, both property, medical, and mental, from his insurance company.
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Old 11-15-04, 12:26 PM   #4
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You're in NY right? No-fault baby!
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Old 11-15-04, 01:48 PM   #5
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hmmmmm...everything I have ever read, on these forums, in cycling books and magizines, etc. tell me to take the lane if necessary to avoid the possibility of being doored, but under any circumstance to make sure that I am clear enough of cars parked along the side of the street to allow clearance. Most publications even include little diagrams illustrating this. While this doesn't absolve a motor vehicle occupant of checking before opening his or her door, is there some handicap you have that prevented you from being aware of the possibility that it could happen and taking whatever steps need to be taken to keep yourself out of harm's way?

And exactly how does CM increase the chances that drivers will be more careful when getting out of a car?
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Old 11-15-04, 02:11 PM   #6
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I've always wondered if cars get 'doored' as often as bikes.

Is the problem that people opening their door don't look (Which would lead me to expect cars get doored just as often) Or is the problem that people look before opening door, but don't 'see' the bike?

Al
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Old 11-15-04, 02:14 PM   #7
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Is this is like your tenth accident I've read about, you are the Ultimate Cycling Martyr!!

Quote:
The etiquette to be observed in cycling is to be civil to all; assist the timid, and do not mock or laugh at awkwardness."
-Annie Randall White, 'Twentieth Century Etiquette'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laika
I called you "motherf*cker" with the greatest possible sense of respect and affection.
-Laika, 'Bikeforums.net'

Glad you lived, better luck next time.

Last edited by ehenz; 11-15-04 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 11-15-04, 02:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
I've always wondered if cars get 'doored' as often as bikes.

Is the problem that people opening their door don't look (Which would lead me to expect cars get doored just as often) Or is the problem that people look before opening door, but don't 'see' the bike?

Al
drivers just don't notice cyclists as much as they do other cars. further, they tend to misjudge the approcahing cyclists speed and think they have more time then they actually do. other times they are so preoccupied with whatever they are doing they just don't think. this is more of a problem in places where you have to ride right next to a row of parked cars (almost every road is like this in NYC). you just have to ride as if everyone is going to hit you and try not to get boxed in by the surrounding traffic (easier said then done). i've only been doored once but it happened so fast that i had no option of avoiding it.
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Old 11-15-04, 02:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by timmhaan
drivers just don't notice cyclists as much as they do other cars. further, they tend to misjudge the approcahing cyclists speed and think they have more time then they actually do.
As I suspected - its not that folks don't look before opening door, its that the don't 'see' - This danger of cycling visiblity I am very aware of.

I don't ride in door zone. My biggest fear of accident while cycling (and actually while driving too) is having someone turn left in front of my path - while I am cautious thru intersections and watch the behavior of left turners, it is just not possible to ride like every left turner may suddenly turn.

Al
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Old 11-15-04, 02:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Laika
I'll keep playing in traffic. You do it your way, I'll do it mine.
Maybe you should rethink 'your way' because it doesn't seem to be working in your favor
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Old 11-15-04, 02:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisebeam
As I suspected - its not that folks don't look before opening door, its that the don't 'see' - This danger of cycling visiblity I am very aware of.

I don't ride in door zone. My biggest fear of accident while cycling (and actually while driving too) is having someone turn left in front of my path - while I am cautious thru intersections and watch the behavior of left turners, it is just not possible to ride like every left turner may suddenly turn.

Al
where in Arizona do you live? i grew up in tucson and it was always nerve racking to cross those huge intersections. i'm sure you know the ones - three lanes in each direction and people driving so fast as to not get caught at the light. i feel safer riding around in NYC traffic than i did in midtown\downtown tucson. i feel like i'll get injuried in NYC as opposed to getting killed in Tucson.
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Old 11-15-04, 02:48 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by timmhaan
where in Arizona do you live? i grew up in tucson and it was always nerve racking to cross those huge intersections. i'm sure you know the ones - three lanes in each direction and people driving so fast as to not get caught at the light. i feel safer riding around in NYC traffic than i did in midtown\downtown tucson. i feel like i'll get injuried in NYC as opposed to getting killed in Tucson.
Tempe, but I ride in Chandler, Mesa, all the surounding cities, and yes, every day on those 5 and 7 lane streets with 50mph+ traffic and a large intersection with a light every mile, and a minor one about every 1/2 mi.

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Old 11-15-04, 03:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by twahl
hmmmmm...everything I have ever read, on these forums, in cycling books and magizines, etc. tell me to take the lane if necessary to avoid the possibility of being doored, but under any circumstance to make sure that I am clear enough of cars parked along the side of the street to allow clearance. Most publications even include little diagrams illustrating this.
I was three feet or so from a row of parked cars on my left, having taken my lane- the left lane of a three lane, one way street. And before you even ask, I was in the left lane and not the right because I was about a hundred yards from the beginning of a left-side bike lane. As I proceeded up Centre Street to where it merges with Lafayette Street, a driver stopped in the middle of a lane change from the center lane into my lane and opened his (driver's side) door into my path. Next thing I knew I was on the ground, facing back towards him. So as near as I can guess, my right arm hit his left door as I managed to get most of my body clear of his door. The resultant impact both knocked me from the bike and spun me around and to the left hard enough that I bumped up against the parked car hard enough to leave a mark.


Quote:
While this doesn't absolve a motor vehicle occupant of checking before opening his or her door, is there some handicap you have that prevented you from being aware of the possibility that it could happen and taking whatever steps need to be taken to keep yourself out of harm's way?
Well obviously, I was handicapped by not being able to predict that he would stop driving half in and half out of my lane and fling his door open his door directly in my path. So if not being telepathic is a handicap, yes I guess there was something. OTOH, you seem in need of a decongestant or antihistimine to clear up what seems to be an acute case of terminal snottiness.

Quote:
And exactly how does CM increase the chances that drivers will be more careful when getting out of a car?
I believe it rasies the profiles of urban cyclists. You are of course entitled to a different and, in my view, mistaken opinion about CM.

I'm fine, by the way. Thanks for asking. The only thing nicer than good motorist-cyclist relations is the sort of very touching solidarity and empathy that cyclists share that you've demonstrated here. Thanks bunches. Really.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ehenz
Is this is like your tenth accident I've read about, you are the Ultimate Cycling Martyr!!
Glad you lived, better luck next time.
Glad to see you actually crawl out of the political ghetto and talk about cycling sometimes.
I've only posted about this accident, as far as I know. If you'd like to hear the other accident stories, such as "The First Time I Tried Clipless Pedals," "I Should Have Been More Careful Going Downhill In Wet Leaves," or "Who Put That Pothole There?" I'd be glad to share.

You are, of course, correct to point out my lapse into vulgarity and incivility. Though I have always thought of that quote in relation to cyclist-cyclist relations and communications, you are correct in pointing out that I could perhaps have tempered my expressions of anger and disbelief in a more civil manner. I thank you for the guidance and will strive to meet with your approval the next time something of this sort happens.


EDIT: I went back and checked as your apparent fatigue with my accident stories had me worried. Was I really some sort of cycling injury martyr? I posted once before about going over my handlebars in the context of a poll about the efficacy of helmets. And another time, I posted about getting a flat. So that would be now three, rather than ten accidents.

Last edited by Laika; 11-15-04 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:32 PM   #15
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Frankly, if the idiot doored you and didn't apologize, civility goes out the window. People need to pay better attention. Of course, these are usually the same ****** that jump out into an oncoming lane of traffic without signalling or checking their mirror, so it's like preaching to the choir.


As for the shmuck who wished for a more catastrophic result:

Quote:
Is this is like your tenth accident I've read about, you are the Ultimate Cycling Martyr!!
..
Glad you lived, better luck next time.
Dude, what's your problem? Laika crashed and you say better luck next time?

Maybe you should take a good tumble so we can all have a laugh. I for one will be pissing myself at your extensive cycling prowess as you endo through someone's driver side window.

Last edited by vincenzosi; 11-15-04 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by vincenzosi
Frankly, if the idiot doored you and didn't apologize, civility goes out the window. People need to pay better attention. Of course, these are usually the same ****** that jump out into an oncoming lane of traffic without signalling or checking their mirror, so it's like preaching to the choir.

As for the shmuck who wished for a more catastrophic result, dude, what's your problem? Laika crashed and you say better luck next time?

Maybe you should take a good tumble so we can all have a laugh.
No need to read that much into it, vincenzosi. I said "Glad you lived (as in it could have been worse), better luck (as in "I hope you don't get as badly hurt) next time. Sheesh, think before you type, people.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:38 PM   #17
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Heh... I didn't take it that way and neither did he...

Must be something wrong with both of us then.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:39 PM   #18
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Heh... I didn't take it that way and neither did he...

Must be something wrong with both of us then.
Yes, you have prejudge me and my intentions. Very small minded act if you ask me.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by vincenzosi
As for the shmuck who wished for a more catastrophic result:
Dude, what's your problem? Laika crashed and you say better luck next time?
Maybe you should take a good tumble so we can all have a laugh. I for one will be pissing myself at your extensive cycling prowess as you endo through someone's driver side window.
Thanks for the kind words. I think he has a chip on his shoulder because we're on very different sides of the fence politically, and he apparently takes that pretty personally (though I'm not trying to put words in his mouth here and will admit right off the bat that I could be woefully wrong about his apparent dislike of me.) As for me, with what little attention I pay him, I wish him many miles of smooth pavement and unrestricted motion in or on the conveyance of his choice. Crashing sucks, whatever the cause.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
As I suspected - its not that folks don't look before opening door, its that the don't 'see' - This danger of cycling visiblity I am very aware of.

I don't ride in door zone. My biggest fear of accident while cycling (and actually while driving too) is having someone turn left in front of my path - while I am cautious thru intersections and watch the behavior of left turners, it is just not possible to ride like every left turner may suddenly turn.

Al
A car almost hit me once making a left turn at the intersection at Bowery and Delancey. I ended up crashing into a traffic light trying to avoid the car. Driver didn't slow down at all, even though I was directly in front of his/her car.

Also, dooring is the fault of the driver. According to the New York traffic rules, section 4-12c:

Getting out of vehicle. No person shall get out of any vehicle from the side facing on the traveled part of the street in such manner as to interfer with the right of the operator of an approaching vehicle or bicycle.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:43 PM   #21
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A car almost hit me once making a left turn at the intersection at Bowery and Delancey. I ended up crashing into a traffic light trying to avoid the car. Driver didn't slow down at all, even though I was directly in front of his/her car.

Also, dooring is the fault of the driver. According to the New York traffic rules, section 4-12c:

Getting out of vehicle. No person shall get out of any vehicle from the side facing on the traveled part of the street in such manner as to interfer with the right of the operator of an approaching vehicle or bicycle.
You have state bicycle law down pat, Yoshi. I know who to call next time I need backup!
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Old 11-15-04, 03:48 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Laika
Thanks for the kind words. I think he has a chip on his shoulder because we're on very different sides of the fence politically, and he apparently takes that pretty personally (though I'm not trying to put words in his mouth here and will admit right off the bat that I could be woefully wrong about his apparent dislike of me.) As for me, with what little attention I pay him, I wish him many miles of smooth pavement and unrestricted motion in or on the conveyance of his choice. Crashing sucks, whatever the cause.
Quote:
Glad you lived, better luck next time.
Jeez, maybe I'll get banned now that I wished death upon you

Typical , per the rules you can't keep the stuff that goes on the political section where it belongs. This is a case of your biased feelings bumbling over, not mine. I think someone in NYC needs to lighten up. Edit: I was not even aware we discussed anything in the political forum, I'm flattered you remembered me. Any snideness (pointing out hypocracy) in this thread is a result of you comments about the CM and how you think it is the "end all" of cycling advocacy when it has become apparent CM does very little these days.

Good Luck (in general, not in death ),

ehenz

Last edited by ehenz; 11-17-04 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ehenz
Jeez, maybe I'll get banned now that I wished death upon you

Typical , per the rules you can't keep the stuff that goes on the politcal section where it belongs.
"2: What is said in this forum stays in this forum."
While I mentioned that we're political opposites, and that I believed your apparent fatigue with me and my three boring accident stories might be rooted in that, I made no specific mention of anything said in the political forum. Indeed, without the context of our other posts, using only the post which you seem to have a problem with as a source text, all I've mentioned is that we disagree politically. Withut conext, which could only be provided had I actually broughtsomething said in the political forum into this forum or if someone here had read our posts in the political forum, for all anyone here knows, I could be a monarchist and you a radical Stalinist, or I could be a Fabian Socialist and you a third generation member of the John Birch society. If you disagree and believe that I am in violation of rule 2. ( or any of the four rules for that matter), I invite you to email a site moderator and have this thread deleted or moved &/or my account suspended or terminated.

Interestingly, the use of the word "typical" in the above section actually indicates that you have a set of interactions with me fresh in your mind with which to compare any new interactions with me which enables you to determine if they're typical or not; that is, you're working with a set of biases against me. Pot, kettle, etc.

Quote:
This is a case of your biased feelings bumbling over, not mine. I think someone in NYC needs to lighten up.
For my "biased feelings" to "bumble" over, I'd have to have some feelings about you. Which I don't.
And lightening up? Once more, the relative hues of cooking implements seems a facile comparison.
Later, gator.

Last edited by Laika; 11-15-04 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:13 PM   #24
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First off I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt Laika. Second I really love the way you wrote the whole procedings with driver who doored you. At least we know the crash didn't hurt your writing skills. Good luck with the morons.
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Old 11-15-04, 04:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ehenz
Edit: I was not even aware we discussed anything in the polemical section, I'm flattered you remembered me.
Methinks the poster doth protest too much.

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Good Luck (in general, not in death ),

ehenz


I'll take this at face value and wish the same to you, quite quite sincerely.
Best,
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