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Share the Road is a Two Way Street -- From the LA TIMES

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Share the Road is a Two Way Street -- From the LA TIMES

Old 07-15-11, 08:01 AM
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Share the Road is a Two Way Street -- From the LA TIMES

From the second page of the LA TIMES comes this:

https://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...2407319.column
"I, personally, find most cyclists on the streets of Los Angeles to be perfectly obnoxious," Liz White, a resident of the Village Green, wrote to me last week.
"So will you be campaigning for horse lanes next?" wrote John Daykin, a Westlake Village property manager. He calls bicycles an archaic, "19th century" conveyance. "The roads are not built for cyclists; they are an unregulated hazard to normal traffic."
Jim Trombetta, a novelist and television writer, told me he is appalled by the "moral superiority" of the cyclists he's encountered. Many are deliberately flouting the law, he wrote, and their rudeness "appears almost ideological, as if a school somewhere taught it."
It seems clear to me that, as more bikes use our streets, we need to put more effort into spreading the word about safe and courteous biking practices.

Los Angeles needs an attitude adjustment regarding bicyclists

Joe Linton, one of the city's leading advocates for bicyclists, agrees.

"We all assert our rights to use the streets, whether we're biking, walking or driving," Linton told me. "And we should all be more aware and more courteous of each other."

Linton also favors the kind of redesign of major thoroughfares that would make cyclists safer, while forcing cars to "slow down a bit," he said.

The cycling lobby wants to make L.A. a little more like bike-friendly Copenhagen and Amsterdam. But resistance is deep. Already, the car-cycling debate is shaping up into a culture clash.

Maybe nothing you haven't heard or read before, but the location on the second page of the LA TIMES is notable... especially in light of Carmegeddon that LA is about to undergo.
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Old 07-15-11, 08:47 AM
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I have to say that while I don't know the streets of LA all that well, it does seem like the kind of city that could hugely benefit from more cyclists -- especially in terms of congestion and pollution.

He is correct though in that like it or not, everyone on a bike is going to be treated like a representative of all cyclists. In addition negative stimulus sticks with us longer than positive stimulus. Ergo, the driver will remember being given the finger much longer than a wave.

On a side note, I suspect the whole "Carmageddon" thing is getting blown out of proportion, the media is just fixated on turning everything they can into yet another apocalypse. Keeping some lanes open actually makes it worse for several reasons. Capacity is cut, but drivers will still expect access. The work itself takes longer, as the workers and supplies will get stuck in the resulting jam. The best approach is to just shut the whole thing down for a few weekends in a row, and let people know in advance so they know to take alternate routes before they get anywhere near the closed route.
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Old 07-15-11, 08:52 AM
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It's not just a LA problem, but a nationwide one. Here locally, I've also encountered many people with the "Share the Road, Share the Load" mentality, most all had misconceptions of how road infrastructure was funded, and how heavily that motorized vehicle travel was being subsidized.
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Old 07-15-11, 08:58 AM
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I've never lived in Los Angeles with a bike, I can't imagine having to deal with that traffic on a bicycle on a daily basis. there's probably ways to connect back streets and bikeway'd routes across town consistently by OHMIGAWD the traffic and the drivers are not to be believed. I recall going to a grocery store in West Hollywood and seeing road rage type incidents in the parking lot.

The only sensible way around LA traffic would be on a bike. Getting across town could likely be done quicker by bike than car in typical Los Angeles traffic conditions, but there are many roads in LA absolutely treacherous to bicyclists and there's a distinct lack of bicyclist accommodations at pinch spots like the LA river bridges, under traffic interchanges and the like.



Los Angeles is the most autocentric city in the nation. Atlanta is pretty bad too but nothing like Los Angeles. This column is written with so much smudge from the windshield. A little concession to bicyclist safety and road rights, but the tone is very scolding.

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Old 07-15-11, 09:04 AM
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I find the comment in the article about cyclists not wearing helmets to be an interesting red herring. My lack of a helmet does not in any way impact a driver in any meaningful way. If I'm doing 25mph down a 35mph street, my helmet doesn't make his trip any longer or shorter. The FRAP quote is also curiously missing details about the times when a cyclist may ride non-FRAP, which is nearly always in a city like LA.
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Last edited by Seanholio; 07-15-11 at 09:04 AM. Reason: It's FRAP, not FRAC. :)
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Old 07-15-11, 09:08 AM
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It's a fair call. I figure when I'm on my bike I've got as much right to be on the road as anyone else but that doesn't mean I have to be an ass about it. If I've got a lot of cars backed up behind me I'll pull in to let them pass. If I'm struggling up a big hill where it's not practical for cars to get past me I'll pull over and let them pass. Expecting a line of cars to slow to 7mph because that's all I can do is as obnoxious as them expecting me to move just because they are there.

It really doesn't hurt anyone to give a bit and take a bit.
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Old 07-15-11, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by contango
It's a fair call. I figure when I'm on my bike I've got as much right to be on the road as anyone else but that doesn't mean I have to be an ass about it. If I've got a lot of cars backed up behind me I'll pull in to let them pass. If I'm struggling up a big hill where it's not practical for cars to get past me I'll pull over and let them pass. Expecting a line of cars to slow to 7mph because that's all I can do is as obnoxious as them expecting me to move just because they are there.

It really doesn't hurt anyone to give a bit and take a bit.
+1

Of course such an attitude is not likely to fly with the perpetually offended.
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Old 07-15-11, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by myrridin
+1

Of course such an attitude is not likely to fly with the perpetually offended.
I'm perfectly willing to "give and take". The problem is that so many motorists are not, and believe that being in a larger vehicle with the potential to seriously harm us means that they can push us around. It only takes a few *******s to screw things up for everyone.
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Old 07-15-11, 09:29 AM
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WRT the article, I've seen similar articles around here. Drivers seem offended by the very idea of sharing the road with us, much less actually doing it. Where I live, they've recently made some very minor cycling-related improvements to the streets, including adding some sharrows and removing a very small number of on-street parking spaces in order to facilitate the installation of much safer bike lane designs near a few problem intersections (before, the bike lanes just abruptly ended well before the intersections so that the space could be used for parking spots instead at a place where the road narrows). And these were at places with serious safety hazards for bicyclists where there have already been a number of fatalities as cyclists try to merge into traffic to avoid the parked cars. So, just a small amount of paint and the removal of less than 10 on-street parking spots.

But you would think that we were outlawing cars, judging by the whiny outrage from motorists in the local media and at city council meetings. All the usual garbage has gotten trotted out, about how cyclists are supposedly all "scofflaws" who don't deserve any accommodation, about how we're the cause of all the traffic congestion, about how it's our fault that they can't find parking when they want to go somewhere because a few spots were taken out, about how we don't pay taxes for the roads, etc. It's pretty infuriating, and my natural response is to react angrily when I see this stuff in print. How can we go about changing this nonsense? I've seen a lot of work locally from the cyclist side to improve education, encourage new cyclists to be law-abiding, etc, but most of the motorists still constantly speed, roll stop signs, etc, with little to no enforcement, and then bring us their outrageous entitlement attitude whenever even minor steps are taken by government to improve cyclist safety.
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Old 07-15-11, 10:27 AM
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Good article.

While riding over the last year, I have had more negative encounters with cyclists than motorists. Cyclists are much more unpredictable. It's no wonder that there are bad vibes. Karma will eventually have its way.

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Old 07-15-11, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mnemia
I'm perfectly willing to "give and take". The problem is that so many motorists are not, and believe that being in a larger vehicle with the potential to seriously harm us means that they can push us around.
Given that cyclists are as likely as motorists (roughly same proportions) to behave in a non-sharing manner. And both groups tend to rationalize their behavior.

Originally Posted by mnemia
It only takes a few *******s to screw things up for everyone.
So true. However, that statement is far more inclusive of all modes of travel than I believe you intended...
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Old 07-15-11, 10:33 AM
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I've lived in L.A. since 1957,and have ridden my bike around town for most of them years.With as many cars on the road here and as many mishaps I have had with people over the years,I'm sure the overwelming majority of people have no wish to run me down,no matter how much I may inconvience them.

L.A. Times=Worlds Biggest Fishwrap.I'll do an article about bicyclist from the vantage point of my car windshield.....sounds about right.

You have to remember that the greater L.A. basin and surrounding counties are HUGE.L.A. county alone is 50 miles long and 30 miles wide.It would take a couple days just to ride around the perimeter.A lap around LAX is 15 MILES!If your standing at city hall,it's 30 miles west to the beach and 50 miles+ in any other direction until you START to run out of houses.

Now if a person has a mind to go somewhere,it CAN be done in reasonable comfort in L.A.There are plenty of streets to ride through town,north and south,east-west, that have good bike lanes.There's one I ride all of the time,Venice Beach-Downtown L.A.-about 30 miles.Venice Blvd has a bike lane that is as wide as a car lane,all to myself most of the time.It gets used close to the beach,but get 1 mile away and I'm pretty much alone.

There's the normal daily hassles,yelling,honking,dogs,people throwing stuff,street sweepers,busses,trucks,sewer grates,near misses,people running reds,people stepping off the sidewalks,potholes,crap in the street,and on windy days,I even get to ride through dirt and paper tornadoes whirling around the skyscraper in downtown L.A.

It's all part of the fun.Is it dangerous?,can be if your not paying attention.There's crap happening from all angles,at all times.If I just get bumped,I can have a bad day.If I have to swerve into traffic to miss doors,I can have a bad day.If I don't look in 4 direction at ALL intersections,I can have a bad day,doesn't matter if the lights been red for 2 minutes for cross traffic and I have mirrors and helmets and body armor,I can have a bad day.

In all of that time,I've had 2 bad days(1 my fault,1 not) and countless near misses.I ran over a 10 ft piece of pipe in the road and crack my jaw on the curb,the other I got side-swiped by a truck mirror and it deposited me onto the sidewalk.Near-misses don't count in my book,you have to actually hit me to get any street cred.

So it all boils down too....You are born with the best piece of safety equipment made.....it's between your ears......use it.You can't control what people are doing in their cars.You can put up lights,pass laws,on and on,means nothing.If you value your life,it's up to YOU......DON"T HANG YOUR ASS OUT TOO FAR.



Just for the record,in L.A.,when you see a "share the road" sign,that's biking code for take the lane so you don't get your ass run down.

Last edited by Booger1; 07-15-11 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 07-15-11, 10:54 AM
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it really is sad how far the LA Times has fallen from where it was in the '90s. I really can't take motorist complaints too seriously, mostly because they get all whiny about things that don't affect them in any meaningful way. Oh, you had to change lanes for a cyclist that could have been riding on a substandard sidewalk, <<the horror>>. Sure, there are some cyclists that even I would complain about, but I see far more idiocy and pointless selfishness perpetrated by motorists than by cyclists.
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Old 07-15-11, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Seanholio
I find the comment in the article about cyclists not wearing helmets to be an interesting red herring.
It means the columnist who is "insulted" by the sight of helmet less bike riders, as well as being "insulted" by bicyclists with head phones is a jerk, and doesn't know a thing about which he types, just like some of our clueless BF Dudley-Do-Rights. Why anyone would quote him or take him seriously is beyond me.
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Old 07-15-11, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Booger1
Just for the record,in L.A.,when you see a "share the road" sign,that's biking code for take the lane so you don't get your ass run down.
We have the same "standard" down in Sandy Eggo... those Share the Road signs and the Bike Route signs both mean "take the lane."
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Old 07-15-11, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
I've never lived in Los Angeles with a bike, I can't imagine having to deal with that traffic on a bicycle on a daily basis. there's probably ways to connect back streets and bikeway'd routes across town consistently by OHMIGAWD the traffic and the drivers are not to be believed. I recall going to a grocery store in West Hollywood and seeing road rage type incidents in the parking lot.

The only sensible way around LA traffic would be on a bike. Getting across town could likely be done quicker by bike than car in typical Los Angeles traffic conditions, but there are many roads in LA absolutely treacherous to bicyclists and there's a distinct lack of bicyclist accommodations at pinch spots like the LA river bridges, under traffic interchanges and the like.



Los Angeles is the most autocentric city in the nation. Atlanta is pretty bad too but nothing like Los Angeles. This column is written with so much smudge from the windshield. A little concession to bicyclist safety and road rights, but the tone is very scolding.
It's not so bad. The weather and topography are great for riding. Obviously the drivers (and their attitudes) are the biggest problem, but you adapt and get used to it fairly quick. And things are genuinely getting better (there are more cyclists every day and the city government has definitely gotten on the cycling bandwagon, albeit with the usual bureaucratic delays).

Even though I am used to cycling here, I do have to say, though, I've been blown away by how great and how easy it is to cycle Portland, OR and Madison, WI on recent trips.
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Old 07-15-11, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It means the columnist who is "insulted" by the sight of helmet less bike riders, as well as being "insulted" by bicyclists with head phones is a jerk, and doesn't know a thing about which he types, just like some of our clueless BF Dudley-Do-Rights.
Yeah that really is a WTF aspect of the article... should we cyclists be offended when we see motorists not wearing seat belts?
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Old 07-15-11, 11:27 AM
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I think it was a pretty good article, especially considering it is mostly about the negative response to his original pro-cycling article.
https://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2080789.colum
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Old 07-15-11, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mnemia
I'm perfectly willing to "give and take". The problem is that so many motorists are not, and believe that being in a larger vehicle with the potential to seriously harm us means that they can push us around.
For what it's worth I see far more incidents where a car is forced to brake hard or take evasive action because a bike has done something stupid than a bike having to evade a car doing something stupid. I've only very rarely encountered a motorist who acted like he wanted to "push me around" and the few I have come across have seemed like the sort who would try and push anyone around.

It only takes a few *******s to screw things up for everyone.
It only takes a few *******s on two wheels to give us all a bad name. Comments like "cagers are so thoughtless" after a single adverse incident (which could easily have been a genuine oversight on the driver's part) are no more helpful than "cyclists ignore the law" after seeing a single cyclist run a red light.
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Old 07-15-11, 12:10 PM
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I actually like riding in L.A. It's not as bad as people probably think it is.. well, as long as you figure out which streets to avoid.
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Old 07-15-11, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by contango
For what it's worth I see far more incidents where a car is forced to brake hard or take evasive action because a bike has done something stupid than a bike having to evade a car doing something stupid. I've only very rarely encountered a motorist who acted like he wanted to "push me around" and the few I have come across have seemed like the sort who would try and push anyone around.
Is it really the case that the cyclist has done something stupid or is it that the motorist has failed to account for the cyclist? The reason I ask is I see motorists all the time driving on the rear bumper of other motorists... and that shows me that the following motorist is NOT accounting for the actions of the leading motorist... and that same lack of respect for other drivers carries right on over to lack of respect for cyclists.
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Old 07-15-11, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Yeah that really is a WTF aspect of the article... should we cyclists be offended when we see motorists not wearing seat belts?
I think he was just citing that as an example of a "naked, brazen kind of stupidity" (along with running red lights, etc.) that's so overt and apparent that it makes drivers crazy. Your driver not wearing a seat belt or the driver he cites blasting down the freeway while texting aren't so visible in their stupidity even if, as he points out, they're more dangerous (they're surrounded by steel and harder to notice) compared to the scofflaw rider, and psychologically this is what drives some of the anger and frustrations. Setting aside the helmet debate generally and just accepting that most people see it as an unreasonable risk (I certainly do), I think this is a fair point.

Tobar has generally been doing some of the most reasonable writing about cycling of any major newspaper columnist.
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Old 07-15-11, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Is it really the case that the cyclist has done something stupid or is it that the motorist has failed to account for the cyclist? The reason I ask is I see motorists all the time driving on the rear bumper of other motorists... and that shows me that the following motorist is NOT accounting for the actions of the leading motorist... and that same lack of respect for other drivers carries right on over to lack of respect for cyclists.
Most of the time it's because the cyclist has done something stupid. Like going through a red light and ignoring the No Right Turn sign, turning across oncoming traffic and just assuming everybody will stop. Or taking a corner so wide they stray into the other lane, forcing the oncoming car to brake hard.

I've also seen a few cases where motorists do stupid stuff, but it's pointless to claim that one side is always at fault when it's clearly not the case.
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Old 07-15-11, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Yeah that really is a WTF aspect of the article... should we cyclists be offended when we see motorists not wearing seat belts?
I get offended when cops pander for federal money by handing out 'no seatbelt' tickets while ignoring the motorist running red lights.
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Old 07-15-11, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI
I get offended when cops pander for federal money by handing out 'no seatbelt' tickets while ignoring the motorist running red lights.
And well you should.
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