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Old 11-18-04, 09:09 PM   #1
Laika
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Fellow Cyclist/Messenger Killed in Midtown (victim of an apparent dooring)



This morning, November 18th 2004, a messenger was killed at 49th Street and 8th Avenue. When a death happens in our community, it is a tragedy that effects us all. There will be a vigil & memorial ride for him on Friday, November 19th at 6pm @ 49th & 8th Ave. Bring flowers and your support.



Our deepest sympathies go out to his family and friends. May he Rest In Peace. Ride Safe.
I am going to ride, and I encourage anyone else who can to do so. Or think about this cyclist as you ride in your hometown.


Ride on.
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Old 11-18-04, 09:12 PM   #2
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That's very sad... My condolensces to the family...
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Old 11-18-04, 09:22 PM   #3
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I saw the thing in the news, apparently he wasn't hit by a car or anything after he was doored. They say he just flew head first into the ground.
They didn't say what the truck driver was charged with, if anything at all. It's absolutely appalling that he'll probably get away with it too. Drivers and passengers need to watch out when they open their doors, not just for the people around them but for their own good as well. And people should (not need to but should) wear helmets; cat like reflexes don't exactly work for humans.
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Old 11-18-04, 09:53 PM   #4
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Wanna bet he's charged with nothing because of his overwhelming grief and recognition of his mistake?
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Old 11-18-04, 09:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by vincenzosi
Wanna bet he's charged with nothing because of his overwhelming grief and recognition of his mistake?
Wanna bet this doesn't get any press in the Daily News tomorrow, after their bike-bash-a-thon today?
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Old 11-18-04, 09:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by vincenzosi
Wanna bet he's charged with nothing because of his overwhelming grief and recognition of his mistake?
Nah, you'll lose the bet.
It's because drivers, the law, and politicians for the most part don't give a damn about us. Grief has nothing to do with it.
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Old 11-18-04, 09:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Laika
Wanna bet this doesn't get any press in the Daily News tomorrow, after their bike-bash-a-thon today?
I know exactly what u mean. Every paper has something on that lady that got hurt by a van backing up. None has anything about a biker being KILLED.
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Old 11-18-04, 10:02 PM   #8
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I only heard about this from the Time's Up newsletter. What did the press say? What was the whole story? I'm guessing he wasn't wearing a helmet? How old was he? What exactly happened?

I'm horrified. I work on 44th and Broadway and bike to work just about every day. This is pretty chilling.
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Old 11-18-04, 10:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Konakazi
I only heard about this from the Time's Up newsletter. What did the press say? What was the whole story? I'm guessing he wasn't wearing a helmet? How old was he? What exactly happened?

I'm horrified. I work on 44th and Broadway and bike to work just about every day. This is pretty chilling.
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/Sub...entintid=45359

Pretty basic summary. But hey, he was just a bike messenger, right?
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Old 11-18-04, 10:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Konakazi
I only heard about this from the Time's Up newsletter. What did the press say? What was the whole story? I'm guessing he wasn't wearing a helmet? How old was he? What exactly happened?

I'm horrified. I work on 44th and Broadway and bike to work just about every day. This is pretty chilling.
I was actually surprised channel 5 had a news chopter over the scene for a while.
The guy actually landed right next to his bike, the cloth over the body covered the front wheel of the bike. It was right next to the truck that was double parked with the passenger side door open. They said that witnesses saw the guy hit the car door then fall over to the side head first off his bike.
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Old 11-18-04, 10:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laika
But hey, he was just a bike messenger, right?

exactly. I was just thinking today about how most people looked down on us like they would any other "pest". Yet it's one of the toughest jobs around. Messengers are hard, dedicated sonsab!tches but don't have much to show for it. Something like this happens, and people think it's of not much consequence...there's always another one to fill in.

It's just a matter of time before it happens to a cyclist again...this couldn't have happened at a worse time. Or could it? People need to be aware of these dangers we all face every day. It's too bad that it's got to go this far.
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Old 11-18-04, 11:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ch0mb0
exactly. I was just thinking today about how most people looked down on us like they would any other "pest". Yet it's one of the toughest jobs around. Messengers are hard, dedicated sonsab!tches but don't have much to show for it. Something like this happens, and people think it's of not much consequence...there's always another one to fill in.

It's just a matter of time before it happens to a cyclist again...this couldn't have happened at a worse time. Or could it? People need to be aware of these dangers we all face every day. It's too bad that it's got to go this far.
I don't want to mislead anyone here...I love and respect my messenger friends but I am not a messenger and haven't been for a long time.
I feel a special sympathy for this guy because I used to do it, but at this point in my life I'm just another commuter cyclist trying to get by...I don't make my living at it anymore.
Point I'm trying to make is my rage and grief is as a cyclist, not a fellow messenger. I know there's a pride of place among mesengers, and I don't want any current couriers thinking I'm trying to glom onto that.
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Old 11-18-04, 11:38 PM   #13
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Just so you know, I didn't mean to make it sound any other way, I do see where you're coming from..am in that same exact situation.
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Old 11-19-04, 12:36 AM   #14
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Not a big fan of mesengers. I find them to be an arrogant, self absorbed and insular lot who break a ****load of traffic laws and give us all a bad name.

And while the blame for his death is 100% on the driver, it's truly sad that his death could probably have been prevented had he been wearing a helmet.

All bike related deaths bother me. I ride in traffic every day and this could happen to me in a second.

Many sympathies to his friends and family.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Laggard
Not a big fan of mesengers. I find them to be an arrogant, self absorbed and insular lot who break a ****load of traffic laws and give us all a bad name.

And while the blame for his death is 100% on the driver, it's truly sad that his death could probably have been prevented had he been wearing a helmet.

All bike related deaths bother me. I ride in traffic every day and this could happen to me in a second.

Many sympathies to his friends and family.
I don't dislike messengers, but I think they often ride dangerously. Messengers have a tough job that many people rely on, but too many take pride in breaking traffic rules. In this case, it may have been unwise to ride in the door zone, even of a double parked truck. It was definitely unwise to ride without a helmet. He might be alive today if he had a helmet.

I'm not talking about legal responsibility, I'm talking about lessons the rest of us can learn from this young man's death. My condolences to his fellow NYC bike messengers.

Edit: It's not clear whether there was enough space between the truck and the police van on the other side of the road. It's also not clear whether the cyclist was going too fast, or whether the door opened at just the wrong time. Given the dearth of facts, I won't blame the cyclist for riding unsafely.

Last edited by Daily Commute; 11-19-04 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Laika
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/Sub...entintid=45359

Pretty basic summary. But hey, he was just a bike messenger, right?
NY! first reported it as a hit and run.
Today Newsday is reporting the driver claims the cops hit him but Internal Affairs couldn't find any evidence to back that up.

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Old 11-19-04, 07:49 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by slvoid
Every paper has something on that lady that got hurt by a van backing up. None has anything about a biker being KILLED.
News is too often reported based on what editors think people want to read about, or which furthers a political agenda.
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Old 11-19-04, 08:49 AM   #18
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Here's a major part of the problem in this city. From the Newsday article Stacy quoted:

Quote:
While police blamed the death on the truck's door, an official from Vesuvio Foods Co., the company that owns the truck, said his driver says the police van hit the cyclist.

Steve Manning, a Vesuvio vice president, said his drivers did not open the door until after they heard a thump on the side of the truck.

They looked out and saw the victim, 42, lying in the street, blood pouring from his head, he said.

"His door was shut," Manning said, speaking from his office in Edison, N.J. "He heard an impact on his door -- a bang, a clang, a crash. He opened the door and he found a bent up bicycle and a bicyclist lying in the street."

According to his driver and his helper, it was the police van moving at a high rate of speed that threw the cyclist into the door.

Manning said Vesuvio would continue to investigate.

A police official said that after a thorough investigation by both the Accident Investigation Squad and Internal Affairs, police discovered fresh marks on the truck's passenger door consistent with the dead cyclist's bike.

"They went over the PD vehicle and there were no fresh marks on it whatsoever," the official said. "I am confident in the investigation, it was thorough. It appears to be an unfortunate accident caused by the door of the delivery truck." The cyclist was not wearing a helmet.

After three hours of questioning, the police let the drivers make their delivery of Pellegrino water, eggs, oil and vinegar to Ciro Trattoria, a nearby restaurant.

Police did not issue a summons for double parking, but did issue a ticket for a slash in one of the trucks tires. The ticket will be squashed if the tire is repaired in 48 hours.
Why did they not issue a summons? There's no contesting that he was double parked. His negligence could be the cause of death of this young man, and instead of pursuing the issue, they let him off with a "fix it and forget it" summons.

This is representative of the crap cyclists in this city face. Crappy greenways with gaping holes and overgrown brush. Bike lanes that are routinely used by cabs and buses, and double-parked in by delivery vans.

In this case I don't know if the double-parked truck was in a bike lane, however double parking is still illegal and the guy doesn't even get a ticket for it.

On WABC Radio this morning, George Weber introduced a story about the messenger's death as "Something some of us feel like doing on purpose," referring to the dooring of the messenger. As I've said in previous threads on other areas of this board; we are targets. If you ride in New York City, better polish up that bull's eye.

Wonder when the police will stop going after the two people who veer off the CM route and start enforcing the "share the road" philosophy we have rammed down our throats. I for one am not hopeful.
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Old 11-19-04, 09:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by vincenzosi
Why did they not issue a summons? There's no contesting that he was double parked. His negligence could be the cause of death of this young man, and instead of pursuing the issue, they let him off with a "fix it and forget it" summons.
.
It really does make you wonder what kind of involvement the police van had. Or did they not know that double parking is illegal? Certainly in the current climate, any kind of police responsibility in a cyclist's death would be explosive. I wonder if there are any witnesses who have their own version.

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Old 11-19-04, 09:21 AM   #20
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I'm sure there are, Stacy. I'm also sure that the local media will try as hard as possible to find them and get both sides of the story.

I'm also sure Santa will be leaving a Scott C1 under my Christmas tree before those people are quoted on TV or in print.
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Old 11-19-04, 10:00 AM   #21
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aw man, i'm so sad. WHY DON'T PPL LOOK!? and i'm getting a helmet this weekend..


[http://1010wins.com/topstories/local...24070227.html]
Bike Messenger Dies In Truck Crash
Nov 19, 2004 7:02 am US/Eastern

(1010 WINS) NEW YORK A bicycle messenger was killed when the door of a delivery truck opened in his path, knocking him to the ground, police said.

The accident happened shortly after 9 a.m. Thursday when the 42-year-old man, whose name was not released pending notification of his family, was making a delivery on Eighth Avenue between West 48th and West 49th streets, police said.

The passenger door of a truck parked on Eighth Avenue opened in his face, sending him sprawling head-first onto the pavement.

Emergency workers pronounced him dead at the scene.
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Old 11-19-04, 10:04 AM   #22
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memorial ride nyc tonight
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Old 11-19-04, 10:08 AM   #23
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thx...
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Old 11-19-04, 10:27 AM   #24
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Here's another article. It happened a block from where I work.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/...page-headlines


RIP
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Old 11-19-04, 01:47 PM   #25
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A tragic event. Our anger and frustration will not reduce the number of such events. We live in a world run for the benefit of motor vehicles. To survive, we must study the enemy and deal with the enemy.


There are three ways the number of such tragic injuries can be reduced:

-Drivers should remember to always look for on-coming bikes and vehicles before opening their doors

-Courts should send drivers to prison for injuring or killing people by opening their doors into traffic

-Bike riders should learn to stay at least four feet away from parked vehicles


Two of those things will happen only in your dreams. The third is a choice every bike rider can make.

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