Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    Walmart bike rider gpsblake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,666
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    14 bicyclist killed in NYC so far this year

    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ne...news-headlines

    A bike messenger was killed yesterday morning when he fell headfirst from his bike in midtown after a deliveryman opened a truck door and knocked him down, police said.

    But officials from the truck company blamed the accident on a police van they say hit the cyclist and threw him into the truck.At 10:45 a.m., the messenger, Dell Covington, 42, of Woodhaven, was riding north on Eighth Avenue near 49th Street. He tried to negotiate a narrow space between a double-parked delivery truck and a police prisoner transport van while holding a cup of tea in one hand and a large muffin in the other, police sources said.

    That's when he slammed into a door opened by one of the deliverymen in the truck, according to the police account.

    It's a phenomenon known to bike messengers as "dooring," an unfortunate and common - but not usually fatal - part of life while knifing through the city on a bike.

    After the accident, the tea and muffin lay on the street beside him. The cyclist was the 14th killed in the city this year.

    While police blamed the death on the truck's door, an official from the Vesuvio Foods Co., the company that owns the truck, said his driver says the police van hit the cyclist.

    Steve Manning, a Vesuvio vice president, said his drivers did not open the door until after they heard a thump on the side of the truck.

    They looked out and saw Covington lying in the street, blood pouring from his head, he said.

    "His door was shut," Manning said, speaking from his office in Edison, N.J. "He heard an impact on his door - a bang, a clang, a crash. He opened the door and he found a bent up bicycle and a bicyclist lying in the street."

    According to his driver and his helper, it was the police van moving at a high rate of speed that threw the cyclist into the door.

    Manning said Vesuvio would continue to investigate.

    A police official said that after a thorough investigation by both the Accident Investigation Squad and Internal Affairs, police discovered fresh marks on the truck's passenger door consistent with the dead cyclist's bike.

    "They went over the PD vehicle and there were no fresh marks on it whatsoever," the official said. "I am confident in the investigation, it was thorough. It appears to be an unfortunate accident caused by the door of the delivery truck."

    The cyclist was not wearing a helmet.

    After three hours of questioning, the police let the drivers make their delivery of Pellegrino water, eggs, oil and vinegar to Ciro Trattoria, a nearby restaurant. Police did not issue a summons for double parking, but did issue a ticket for a slash in one of the trucks tires. The ticket will be squashed if the tire is repaired in 48 hours.

    In the wake of the accident, more than a dozen messengers stopped to bear witness to the loss of one of their own.

    "It's a tight-knit community," Ken Stanek said. "Even though no one really knows this guy it still affects all of us because that could be any one of us."

    "They just don't care," said bike messenger Robert Brennon, 32, of the cars and trucks in the city. "It's a dangerous job, man."

    Rules of the road

    Here's what state laws say about who has the right-of-way when bikes and cars meet:

    IF YOU'RE IN A CAR

    Open parked car doors only when they won't interfere with the movement of other traffic, including bicycles.

    Exit running cars, such as taxis, only on the side out of traffic

    When crossing a bike lane, whether to turn or seek parking place, yield to bike traffic

    IF YOU'RE ON A BIKE

    Do not carry anything that prevents you from keeping at least one hand upon the handle bars

  2. #2
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger
    Posts
    8,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Still, look at the numbers. 14 out of 7,000,000 killed in bike accidents.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  3. #3
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
    Posts
    15,762
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Not to make anything insignificant but I bet more people have died slipping in the shower out of a population of 8+ million.
    I think the chances of an accident in NYC are really really huge on a bike but the consequences aren't as severe. Out in the suburbs, if you get hit by a car, it's gonna be at much greater a speed.

  4. #4
    Senior Member late's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    8,259
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No helmet, no hands, and then no brains.

  5. #5
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Helmet... hmm.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by late
    No helmet, no hands, and then no brains.
    Like I said in the other thread, probably everyone involved could have made better choices. But only the cyclist is dead. How about laying off him? I'm sure that if he's in a position where if it's possible, he's sorry he was trying to carry his breakfast with him as he worked. I'm sure he's sorry he didn't have a hardtop on. I'm sure he's sorry he tried to keep moving through traffic on an avenue that north of 23rd is an absolute horrorshow. But I'm also sure he wouldn't want to be the butt of jokes or an object lesson. He's dead. I'm sure plenty of people would have made different choices that wouldn't have gotten them killed in that situation. Fine. Leave it go.
    Last edited by Laika; 11-19-04 at 09:21 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well said as usual...
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So channel 7's eyewitness news just covered this. The story's title, "Wild Rides?" pretty much sums up the tone of it. My takeaway from it was that they a) blame the messenger for getting killed, despite the fact that state law places the blame for doorings squarely on motorists and b) they think that his death justifies the bike license bill.
    No mention, of course, of the fact that a police vehicle was involved in the accident. But there was a good fifteen seconds of footage of the October Critical Mass, despite the fact that there's was no mention of whether the dead man had ever ridden in CM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Living in our fair city, I'm sure this doesn't surprise you. For myself, the crowning moment of visceral anger came today when I read the piece in the Daily News about the dooring incident. They didn't even mention that the burden falls on the vehicle operator, not the cyclist. So, in the interests of informing the uninformed, I wrote a little ditty to the author:

    Quote Originally Posted by My Brilliant Letter to the Daily News
    Hi Adam.

    I read your story in the 11/19/04 edition of the Daily News, and noticed that nowhere in the story did you mention that regardless of what the cyclist was doing, dooring is the fault of the person getting out of the car, and is codified in the New York traffic rules...

    Here is the relevant section:

    According to the New York traffic rules, section 4-12c:

    Getting out of vehicle. No person shall get out of any vehicle from the side facing on the traveled part of the street in such manner as to interfer with the right of the operator of an approaching vehicle or bicycle.


    I understand that he may have been riding with breakfast in his hand, however I think mentioning the legal angle in the story would've been more balanced. As the story stands, it's almost entirely the cyclist's fault.

    Just thought you would want to know in case you do any follow up stories on this incident.

    Thanks,
    Vincent M. Ferrari
    Sometimes I really feel like I'm on a re-education campaign of people who just flat out ain't too bright.
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  10. #10
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Laika, Vincensozi, hats off to you both.

    One of the things that bothers me about this forum is the tendency for people to tell cyclists how THEY wouldn't have done the thing that resulted in an accident or a confrontation, or a tragedy. We all operate in an environment where we are marginalized and, like all minorities/victims, are often blamed even when we didn't do anything wrong (see threads of recent police hassles, beatings, and now, deaths). It seems to me that this forum is a place where a cylist should be able to turn for compassion and support, not a "I told you so" moral lesson.

    So the man had a muffin. So the man didn't have a helmet on. We have no way of knowing how either of these variables affected this horrible outcome. One thing we DO know, though. Someone broke the law and doored him and now he is dead. I don't live in NYC and I don't know this guy. It's just such a sad image, it's just such a sad thing that happened.

  11. #11
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars
    It seems to me that this forum is a place where a cylist should be able to turn for compassion and support, not a "I told you so" moral lesson.
    I agree, 1000%. In this case, the messenger one, I wrote this in another thread, and I think it's very much related to what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me, Myself and I
    I for one think he could've stood on the top tube doing a dance while holding the bike with a waterskiing rope flying down 8th avenue at 30 mph, and as long as that truck opened the door while double parked he'd still be wrong.
    Most of us are quick to judge each other. In some cases it's valid. But in this case, the people who keep asking "Did he wear a helmet?" and then following up with "He should've worn a helmet" annoy the pi$$ out of me. I'm sure he knew that. I'm sure some of us read the article thinking he was nuts for not wearing a helmet.

    But the fact is he wasn't wrong, and didn't deserve to die, helmet be damned.

    Thanks for the kind words Mars. I'm really trying hard to go with the flow here and I'm glad to see that my newbieness is appreciated
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,251
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For the family and friends of a cyclist who is killed, these events are tragedies. Not a single person involved with this thread knows for a certainty exactly what the cyclist involved did, or did not do in this case. News reports are only reliable for being unreliable. But, cyclists do need to respond to the dangers of riding near motorized vehicles.

    Cyclists can respond in two ways:

    -Blame motorists, politicians, courts, the media...blame everyone except cyclists.

    OR

    -Learn out how to ride safely in a world designed for the convenience of motorized traffic


    It is NOT an "attack" on a fellow cyclist to try to learn from an event and change our own behavior


    1. If you do not want to be "doored", do not ride within four feet of a parked vehicle.

    2. If you do not want a moving vehicle to push you into a parked vehicle, don't try to squeeze between a moving vehicle and a parked vehicle

    3. Ride a speed that allows you to stop quickly when you are near a motor vehicle - sometimes that "safe" speed will be very, very slow

    4. And yes, wear a helmet, keep both hands on the brake levers, and pay attention

    My father was a long-haul truck driver. He sometimes drove 150,000 miles a year. He drove from 1955 to 1985 without ONE accident involving another vehicle, a bicycle, or a pedestrian. He was not "lucky". He knew he was surrounded by dangerous, incompetent drivers, and he learned what HE could do in that sort of world. He developed a driving style that incorporated a margin for error based on the assumption that the drivers around him were dangerous idiots.

    Cyclists need to stop thinking like "victims", stop the whining, and start thinking like survivors. If you want to swim among the sharks, you need to know how to deal with sharks. Don't waste time wishing for a world without sharks.

    Cyclists can put their lives and health in the hands of the motorists around them. Or, put their lives in the hands of politicians, police, and courts. Or, learn to ride safely in a very dangerous world.
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 11-19-04 at 10:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Alan, pay attention to the facts of the story here. Let's apply your bullet list to this story:

    1. If you don't want to be doored, don't ride in the damned city. This kid was riding around a double parked truck which was double parked next to a police van who didn't give enough of a ***** to ticket it.

    2. He didn't squeeze between anything, he got doored.

    3. No evidence exists whatsoever that he was speeding.

    4. Everyone has lapses on #4. Every single person. Lance Armstrong on a training ride careened into a wall at the bottom of a hill because he got too squirrely on the brakes.

    We do need to stop thinking like victims. We also need to stop thinking like if we don't protect ourselves no one will. We do have an obligation to be careful and take care of ourselves. But that doesn't mean the burden to not get into accidents and get killed lies solely on our shoulders. Some things are beyond our control, and they warrant as much of a discussion as the things that are.

    No one has a victim mentality, but it is quite disconcerting to be treated like you don't frigging exist, especially when one of you is killed right in front of a police officer who doesn't even cite the guilty party.

    It's nice to swim with the sharks. But it sucks to do it with ten tons of chum shoved where the sun doesn't shine.
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    For the family and friends of a cyclist who is killed, these events are tragedies. Other cyclists can respond in two ways:

    You sure you didn't mean to post this on urbanmotorist.net? Because the cyclist is dead. Not the motorist. The cyclist is meat in a box, and a stain on the pavement, and you appear to be blaming it on him, when he got doored. The law here in NYS is clear about dooring.

    Please, feel free to come back tomorrow and post all you like about what a careless fool he was. But, as a favor to me, if you're gonna post about this again tonight, please just post about how it sucks that another cyclist died in an accident and leave it go at that.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just so we've got some perspective on this, this happened in the same night that police annonced they'd arrested the motorists who'd thrown a 20 pound turkey from their car through the windshield of another car, incapacitating the driver by breaking very nearly every bone in her face, and forcing her to be put into a medically induced coma while doctors try to figure out how, if at all, they can heal her.

    Good stuff. Everyone in the tri-state is psyched about the culture of dysfunctional motorism.
    Last edited by Laika; 11-19-04 at 10:36 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,251
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    Alan, pay attention to the facts of the story here. Let's apply your bullet list to this story:

    1. If you don't want to be doored, don't ride in the damned city. This kid was riding around a double parked truck which was double parked next to a police van who didn't give enough of a ***** to ticket it.

    2. He didn't squeeze between anything, he got doored.

    3. No evidence exists whatsoever that he was speeding.
    As far as I know, you did not see this accident. You are relying on reports from New York papers famous for their inability, and lack of interest, in getting facts straight.

    So, no one knows with total certainty what happened to cause the death in New York City. But, from experience, I know how to avoid contact with cars that are in front of me. (Cars that are behind me - well...trust in God).

    I don't get doored because I don't go within four feet of doors. I don't run into cars that stop in front of me, because I keep a clear distance, and I reduce my speed to account for wet pavement, the condition of my brakes, and traffic conditions. If the car in front of you stops, or opens a door, and you are going too fast to make a safe stop...you are going too fast. If the car in front of you is going 10 mph, and you are going 15 mph, yes, you are going too fast.

    If I run into a car door, or run into a vehicle that is in front of me, IT IS MY FAULT. I have a better view of a car in front of me than that driver has of me. I can't put my life in HIS hands by assuming he sees me and will make a correct decision.

    It is appropriate to be sad when a fellow cyclists dies on the road. But, we also have a duty to learn from each of those deaths, and ask "How can I change my riding style to make such an event less likely?" We need to be better riders, because there is no chance we are going to see better drivers, better police, or a better court system.
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 11-19-04 at 11:04 PM.

  17. #17
    Climb on my trusty steed BeTheChange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Boone, NC
    My Bikes
    trek 520, specialized stumpjumper pro
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    Sometimes I really feel like I'm on a re-education campaign of people who just flat out ain't too bright.
    I tried that but it is too frusturating and people are too damn stupid. As we can see in history and in politics though, people are easily controlled. I think instead of trying to teach people I'm just going to try to controll them. Damn, when did people get so stupid?
    "You must be the change you want to see in the world."
    -Mahatma Gandhi

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Irving, TX
    Posts
    406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's a damn shame when somebody dies trying to nothing more mundane than getting from point A to point B.
    I'm certain the media in question makes sure to mention everytime a driver in an accident is doing anything else while driving, even if the others involved in the accident were breaking the law. Sorry for the sarcasm. More than likely the reporters weren't even aware of the prejudice exhibited in their reporting, and maybe they didn't even know about the dooring laws. This doesn't excuse the slanted reporting, it just shows how deeply ingrained is the prejudice for cars.

    I am sure there have been dozens of times on my bike and also back in my driving days that an unexpected move from a car would have put me in a grave situation. Fortune plays a larger role than the security-phile likes to admit; we've all done things we knew weren't the very smartest: let our attention lapse, assumed that car on the sidestreet is going to stop at the sign, whatever-- but we're still here because nothing unexpected happened when our guards were down. No one is such a good rider/driver that they are still in one piece by their own merit alone.

    The guy was 42--there's a decent chance he had a wife and kids. Say a prayer for his family.

  19. #19
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Ebritated
    Posts
    6,556
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Laika
    Just so we've got some perspective on this, this happened in the same night that police annonced they'd arrested the motorists who'd thrown a 20 pound turkey from their car through the windshield of another car, incapacitating the driver by breaking very nearly every bone in her face, and forcing her to be put into a medically induced coma while doctors try to figure out how, if at all, they can heal her.

    Good stuff. Everyone in the tri-state is psyched about the culture of dysfunctional motorism.
    Interesting as to how you've decided to paint the culprits as motorists. Guess anyone who purchases a turkey is now an enemy of a cyclist also.

  20. #20
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
    Posts
    15,762
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    2. He didn't squeeze between anything, he got doored.
    What are you smoking?
    Common sense dictates if you're going between two vehicles without enough clearance and margin of error for safety, it's called squeezing between two cars. Like it or not, it happens, we're forced to and sometimes we choose to do it every day. It's just a fact of life.

  21. #21
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
    Posts
    15,762
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    Most of us are quick to judge each other. In some cases it's valid. But in this case, the people who keep asking "Did he wear a helmet?" and then following up with "He should've worn a helmet" annoy the pi$$ out of me. I'm sure he knew that. I'm sure some of us read the article thinking he was nuts for not wearing a helmet.
    Not thinking that he was nuts, but that he would definitely still be here had he been wearing a helmet. 10 mph head first into the ground is no big deal... with a helmet. I slammed 20+ mph head first into the ground on my way to work over the summer, cracked 2 ribs when my chest hit the handle bar as I endo'ed over. Guess what. I got back up and RODE TO WORK 10 minutes late that day and then RODE BACK to my girlfriend's house for dinner with a swollen lip, couple of bruises, and road rash, then RODE BACK HOME. I looked at my helmet when I got to work and it had a nice crack right down the middle. That same week I decided even though it was summer, to tighten my straps a little so my helmet wouldn't slide back and expose my forehead in an accident. And that's exactly where I impacted. Face first, the brim of my helmet took pretty much everything for my forehead and face. Big ol' crack going right down the middle. My sunglasses had a tiny scratch on the frame, stayed on my face the whole time.

    No one's saying he deserved to die. We're saying he deserves to have walked away from that accident and should've if only he had been wearing a helmet.

    If you hear about a bunch of cops who bust into a crack house to arrest some gang members and one of the cops is shot two times in the chest and dies cause he wasn't wearing a vest, wouldn't you think? Oh that's a shame that the fuzz wasn't wearing a vest, he knew the situation he was getting into.

    That's just reality, it's the truth, some people can handle it, some people can't.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dobber
    Interesting as to how you've decided to paint the culprits as motorists. Guess anyone who purchases a turkey is now an enemy of a cyclist also.
    I'm not "painting them" as anything. They were in a car which was in motion when they hurled the bird... i.e. they were "motoring." Had they been on foot or in a stopped car when it happened, their victim's injuries wouldn't have been nearly as horrific. BUt if we take the reasoning of some in this thread and apply it to the turkey assault, I guess the victim should have avoided driving in a situation where it was possible that there would be a car full of sociopaths with groceries in the opposite lane.

  23. #23
    The Iceman cometh! Bop Bop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think we all will agree the death of the cyclist is a tragedy.

    However, and I am not in anyway refering to this incident is it not a bikers responsibilty to use his/her common sense, think and follow the law? What I am referring to is the following:

    I drive to work everyday, one of the streets I use around 6:00 AM everyday is Mockingbird Lane in Paradise Valley (PV) a very rich and exclusive suburb of Phoenix. PV is so rich and exclusive the people have fought and won in most cases not to have street lights. Traffic at that time of the morning is light. Mockingbird also has a single file bike lane (I have ridden this bike lane many times myself, but in daylight), many ride in groups sometimes two or three abreast (which in PV is a ticketable offense). I can not tell you how many cyclists there are out there fully dressed in biking gear (bibs, helmets, etc) riding on this pitch black road with no lights. Most not only have no lights but no safety gear (reflective tape, tail light, etc). Even knowing they are there and being on the look out for them I can not tell you how many I've come up on one and relaized at the last moment they are there.

    I know they are out there and am always on the lookout for them, but what about someone who does not know they are out there? When one of these cyclists gets hit who's fault will it be? Will it be the drivers for hitting the cyclist, the cyclist for not having proper safety gear or the town of PV for not wanting lights?
    "Angel, Bop Bop loves you!!!"

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    Not thinking that he was nuts, but that he would definitely still be here had he been wearing a helmet. 10 mph head first into the ground is no big deal... with a helmet. I slammed 20+ mph head first into the ground on my way to work over the summer, cracked 2 ribs when my chest hit the handle bar as I endo'ed over. Guess what. I got back up and RODE TO WORK 10 minutes late that day and then RODE BACK to my girlfriend's house for dinner with a swollen lip, couple of bruises, and road rash, then RODE BACK HOME. I looked at my helmet when I got to work and it had a nice crack right down the middle. That same week I decided even though it was summer, to tighten my straps a little so my helmet wouldn't slide back and expose my forehead in an accident. And that's exactly where I impacted. Face first, the brim of my helmet took pretty much everything for my forehead and face. Big ol' crack going right down the middle. My sunglasses had a tiny scratch on the frame, stayed on my face the whole time.

    No one's saying he deserved to die. We're saying he deserves to have walked away from that accident and should've if only he had been wearing a helmet.

    If you hear about a bunch of cops who bust into a crack house to arrest some gang members and one of the cops is shot two times in the chest and dies cause he wasn't wearing a vest, wouldn't you think? Oh that's a shame that the fuzz wasn't wearing a vest, he knew the situation he was getting into.

    That's just reality, it's the truth, some people can handle it, some people can't.
    I'm glad you recovered from your accident and that it wasn't worse than it was.

    Per the cop, yeah, it would suck if that happened. But I would lay the blame squarely on the crackhead with the hand cannon.

    Final thing...we're all assuming the helmet would have saved him. I'll be interested to see what actually killed him...could be a broken neck, could be he got caught under the police van and they haven't told anyone that yet. I'm assuming, given the way the media works here in NYC, that we'll see one more round of stories about this. I'm interested to see what comes of it.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,251
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It IS unfair for any of us to be critical of Mr. Covington. None of us saw how Mr. Covington died. Because he died while riding a bicycle, and because of the possibility (only a possibility) a police officer may have had something to do with the incident, there will NEVER be an in-depth and thorough investigation. Mr. Covington is dead, and will not get to tell his side of the story. Any living person who bears some degree of fault will seek to "shape" his version of what happened to blame Mr. Covington, or someone else.

    So, let us not be critical of someone based on the typical mish-mash of factoids, ruomors and guesses that passes for journalism in the USA. Instead, we should simply understand two basic facts:

    -We live in a nation that worships motor vehicles. More than half of our national wealth goes to just two things. Enforcement of the "New World Order". And, motor vehicles, their fuel, their repairs, their roads, and the health costs caused by motor vehicle accidents and motor vehicle pollution.

    -There is only one person on any given street or road who can or will safeguard the life of a person riding on a bike - and that is the person who is riding a bike.

    The studies of who gets a serious injury or is killed while riding a bike show three things. Highly experienced riders have far fewer accidents "per mile" than inexperienced riders. Two, riders who belong to cycling clubs, or have taking cycling classes and training have few accidents than do "self taught" riders. Three, men from about age twenty to age fifty are only about 20% of bike riders, but are about 80% of the people killed riding on a bike.

    Every year, 700 or 800 people in America are killed riding on a bike. Based on the studies of WHO is killed, it is clear that about 400 or 500 of those deaths could be prevented. Adult women who are highly experienced and well trained riders are rarely killed on a bike. As a group, they are careful, cautious, and thoughtful bike riders. Men who are inexperienced, untrained, or reckless in their riding style make up the largest group of people who are killed. OUR behavior has an impact on our chances of survival.

    Let us NOT attack any individual who has been killed on a bike. But, out of respect for the cyclists who have been killed and for ourselves, we need to study how accidents occur, and learn how WE (not THEY) can reduce the number of accidents.
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 11-20-04 at 08:03 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •