goingmissing

Hi all,

I found out a friend of mine, whom I've never cycled with (but will be soon), rides his bicycle into traffic.

Most of the roads he rides are rural, low traffic. But he insists on riding into traffic, hugging the shoulder.

I was hoping someone could post a concise argument against riding against the traffic, and highlight the benefits of riding with it. His point was that it was easier and safer to see the traffic coming at him, and unsafe when they are coming from behind.

Thanks!

KD5NRH

Ask him why cars don't drive on the other side, then.

chasm54

LOL. Brilliant!

OP, where I live riding on the wrong side of the road is against the law. If that isn't enough for him, point out that if he is riding at (say) 15 mph and the cars are doing 50mph, his closing velocity is 65mph rather than 35mph. That gives the car driver much less time to react when, for example, he comes round a curve and finds a cyclist not only in front of him, but ( disconcertingly) facing him.

And if I were you I would absolutely refuse to go riding with someone who rides on the wrong side of the road, he's a danger to himself and to other road users.

I_like_cereal

How does he expect to make left or right hand turns if he is riding into traffic.

Like this:
It is quite simple here. Bikes are cars and are treated as such. He could get ticketed for his behavior. I understand his argument. As a kid I was told the same. It was not until I was an adult that I figured out what I was told was wrong. If he is concerned then have him get a helmet mirror.

When I am faced with people in bike lanes going the wrong way I force them over to the curb. Yeah I am a d#$@ like that. However, they should either be on the sidewalk or across the street in the correct lane. Usually it is some tweenager or migrant farmer that does not know any better. The tweenagers do not care and the migrant farmers do not speak English. I do not to force the farmers to curb. They are just trying to survive.

Paul Barnard

If I am at a stop sign about to turn right onto the roadway, do you think I look to the right before I turn? If I am the average motorist, the answer is no. How does he protect himself in this scenario?

What does the law say about what side of a public roadway he is required to ride on?

goingmissing

If i did ride with him, I'd definitely insist on riding on the proper side of the road.

I agree with the turning argument, I see no way he could do it properly, without changing sides as you saw in the video.
I did not think of the speed argument, that the closing velocity is greater, but that is an excellent point, and really makes sense if you were going down a hill for example.

I'll be interested in learning how he does turns when he is on the wrong side of the road.

8Fishes

If he wants to see the cars coming up behind him, he can always get a mirror.

I am interested in hearing what kind of arguments he has for biking against traffic as that seems quite dangerous for me but then again I mostly doing city/urban cycling. Then I am sure the others can craft a perfect counter argument/reason for what he's doing is wrong.
IMO if you can't convince him to ride on the 'proper' side, you shouldn't ride with him at all since it compromises your safety.

tagaproject6

If he is not willing to change his ways, don't bother riding with him.

rekmeyata

I agree, if he's too stupid to change his ways then he's too stupid to be riding with, he could put you in danger by doing a stupid stunt and causing an accident and you be indirectly involved, or making you do something against your better judgement and get you directly involved in an accident. Find another partner, sorry.

It's against the law anywhere in the US to ride against traffic but cops never do anything about it, I see it all the time where I live and a cop will be setting there and do nothing. It's also against the law to be riding a bike on a city sidewalk IF the sidewalk is not a designated bike lane/path, but again the cops don't do anything about it. In residential areas it's ok for a child to ride their tricycle or their little childs' bike on a sidewalk but it's not ok for a teen or an adult to go bombing down a sidewalk it puts too much risk on pedestrians.

idoru2005

Let him come on with you on a ride, but let him ride on the wrong side as he usually does. You will ride the correct way, but choose a route with lots of right turns (from your point of view). I don't see how your friend will be able to keep up with you with all the wonky maneuvering he'll have to do just to stay on the same route as you. Maybe that will be enough for him to be convinced, how dumb riding against traffic is.

BTW, when I see a salmon coming my way, I ride the gutter and force them to ride into traffic. Hey, if they want to see oncoming traffic, let them see the traffic coming head on!

Northwestrider

+1 on your friend adding a mirror. After he does, then ask him to just give riding on the right a try and then ask him which side was more comfortable for him. As another post said, the relative speed difference between a rider and cars will make riding on the right side easier and more comfortable.

Cyclaholic

If you can't convince him to ride on the right hand side of the road then try to convince him to migrate to Australia where we both ride and drive on the left hand side.... he'll fit right in.

gcottay

Provide him with this simple, almost comic book style, information.

Blind

had a great one on my way home for lunch today, I was riding normally when up ahead what do I see? Someone riding towards me in the bike lane.

oh that's grand.

wait, there's somebody pacing them riding towards me on the sidewalk, too?

oh even better, he isn't moving over to let me maintain my line, so I get to pass in the gutter, thanks jackass.

holy **** he's waring headphones, he's towing a kid behind him, and his wife? is pacing them on the sidewalk!

!

davehbuffalo

Collision Type #4: The Wrong Way Wreck is a big one.

goingmissing

Here was his response when I asked him about the wrong way wreck and turning right:

most of these seem pretty basic and if people get hit like this it is due to a lack of respect on the road, if an intersection has even relatively consistent traffic you should always stop. In the case of number 4 when you are in a town situation i ride with traffic as traffic, so imagine you are a car (with more power of course) and fallow the rules of driving. Its different when your out in the country, the roads are narrower, and the cars are doing at least 30 km/h over the speed limit on a foggy day, so to keep track of them behind you is a very tough thing, even with mirrors on a bicycle, remember when you turn the bars to avoid a pot hole the mirrors went with them, and you have to pay a lot of attention to the road with skinny tired and a road bike so you don't end up over the bars.

How do i respond to this... it seems like he's really set. But the core of his argument is that on a foggy day with speeding traffic it is safer to be driving into traffic. Any counter points?

ChrisM2097

AFAIK, out here in CA, if you ride on the wrong side, and you're in a collision with a vehicle, you're at fault, and liable for damages. You most likely will not be able to collect anything for medical and/or any other loss. That, and the fact that it's the law are good enough reasons for me.

goingmissing

Yep, i know the law is against him.

ChrisM2097

Show him this link...set the "Violation" filter to "Wrong side of the rode"

https://www.baycitizen.org/data/bike-accidents/

chasm54

Yes. My counter-point is that he's an idiot. Refer to my argument about closing velocity. It goes double in poor visibility. You don't go on the road to play dodgems. Even when you use a mirror you don't use it to dodge the traffic behind you, but to check whether it is safe to manoevre. The principle of driving, and riding, is that you spend time keeping track of the vehicles in front of you, not behind you.

kevin_stevens

What does he think he is accomplishing by "seeing the oncoming traffic better"? Unless he's shying like a startled squirrel at every vehicle coming at him at 50mph, he isn't going to be able to do anything about them, anyway.

KeS

Digital_Cowboy

Actually I'd have to say that unless the sidewalk is a MUP that if they're going to be riding on the sidewalk that they still need to ride with traffic not against it. As motorists pulling out of driveways and sides streets are not going to be looking for traffic from the direction that they are turning. So they won't be looking in that direction until the start to make the actual turn and by then it's too late for them to stop.

Digital_Cowboy

Point out to him that if you and he are riding together on a narrow two-lane road i.e. one lane for each direction. Point out to him that his riding on the wrong side puts you in danger, because a motorist will have to swing out into your lane to avoid him.

But as others have said if he shows no indication of willing to ride on the correct side of the road don't ride with him. And let him know why you refuse to ride with him.

Digital_Cowboy

As we've seen the sidewalk riding aspect depends on where one lives. As an example here in Florida it is perfectly legal for one to ride on the sidewalk at any age. In other jurisdictions so long as the person doing the riding is under a certain age, and riding a bike with wheels under a certain size it's legal.

So it really depends on where one is as to whether or not it's legal to ride on the sidewalk.

Digital_Cowboy

How many foggy days do you have? Tell him to mount the mirror to his helmet. That way it tracks with his head NOT the handlebars.

Also point out to him that if he's riding on the wrong side of the road, how does he expect to read the road signs? As they are positioned so that people who are traveling in the right direction can read them. And by riding against the flow of traffic and not being able to see/read the signs he could very well end up missing a VERY important piece of information that can put his life in jeopardy.