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Old 08-13-11, 01:01 PM   #1
NeuroDawg
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Road Riding Illegal in Indianapolis?

I've been vacationing in Indianapolis for the past few days. I'm surprised by the number of bicycles that have been on the sidewalks. I think I've only seen two cyclists actually on the road. One night we were almost struck by cyclists riding at speed across the crosswalk, against traffic, while we were waiting at the corner to cross perpindicular to their travels. Is this how folks are taught to ride in Indiana?
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Old 08-13-11, 01:05 PM   #2
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What area of Indianapolis was it?
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Old 08-13-11, 01:22 PM   #3
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What area of Indianapolis was it?
Downtown. Generally between Lucas Oil Stadium, JW Marriott, and the American Legion Mall. I realise it's a small sample area, but still, only two on the road was somewhat shocking.
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Old 08-13-11, 02:43 PM   #4
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It's Indiana. You can't expect all that much to begin with. My most memorable trip in Indiana involved getting stuck in a traffic jam while trying to get past the parking lot for a Klan rally. Reverse sidewalk riding is probably about as intelligent as it gets around there.
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Old 08-13-11, 03:32 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by NeuroDawg View Post
I've been vacationing in Indianapolis for the past few days. I'm surprised by the number of bicycles that have been on the sidewalks. I think I've only seen two cyclists actually on the road. One night we were almost struck by cyclists riding at speed across the crosswalk, against traffic, while we were waiting at the corner to cross perpendicular to their travels. Is this how folks are taught to ride in Indiana?
Indiana does not consider bicycles as 'vehicles', that is why cyclists are on the sidewalk there.
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Old 08-13-11, 04:40 PM   #6
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Well, 'Indiana' may not, but the Indiana vehicle code does consider bicycles vehicles as described in 9-21-11-2. I know I ride in the road every day while commuting, and I see several others, but I'm in the northeast of the metro area.

IC 9-21-11-2
Roadways; rights and duties
Sec. 2. A person riding a bicycle upon a roadway has all the rights and duties under this article that are applicable to a person who drives a vehicle, except the following:
(1) Special regulations of this article.
(2) Those provisions of this article that by their nature have no application.
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Old 08-13-11, 04:54 PM   #7
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Well, 'Indiana' may not, but the Indiana vehicle code does consider bicycles vehicles as described in 9-21-11-2. I know I ride in the road every day while commuting, and I see several others, but I'm in the northeast of the metro area.

IC 9-21-11-2
Roadways; rights and duties
Sec. 2. A person riding a bicycle upon a roadway has all the rights and duties under this article that are applicable to a person who drives a vehicle, except the following:
(1) Special regulations of this article.
(2) Those provisions of this article that by their nature have no application.
Technically, that gives bicycle riders the duties and responsibilities of a person operating a vehicle, but does not define bicycles as vehicles.

From the Indiana code, definitions:
Quote:
IC 9-13-2-196
Vehicle
Sec. 196. (a) "Vehicle" means, except as otherwise provided in this section, a device in, upon, or by which a person or property is, or may be, transported or drawn upon a highway.
(b) "Vehicle", for purposes of IC 9-14 through IC 9-18, does not include the following:
(1) A device moved by human power.
...
To my knowledge, my state (NY) is the same.
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Old 08-13-11, 11:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by skye View Post
It's Indiana. You can't expect all that much to begin with. My most memorable trip in Indiana involved getting stuck in a traffic jam while trying to get past the parking lot for a Klan rally. Reverse sidewalk riding is probably about as intelligent as it gets around there.
The average intelligence has gone up quite a bit since you left, actually.

I see lots of bikers on the roads in Indy, so I'm not sure what's up with that location.
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Old 08-14-11, 10:49 AM   #9
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It's Indiana. You can't expect all that much to begin with. My most memorable trip in Indiana involved getting stuck in a traffic jam while trying to get past the parking lot for a Klan rally. Reverse sidewalk riding is probably about as intelligent as it gets around there.
Wherever you go, you are there.

Some find great people and engaging activities wherever they go. Others, alas, are just the opposite.
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Old 08-14-11, 05:39 PM   #10
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I've ridden throughout northern Indiana, the lake district, the areas around and in Fort Wayne. Always had a wonderful experience and people were more than accomodating. Love those hoosier thunderstorms.
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Old 08-14-11, 05:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjdm View Post
Technically, that gives bicycle riders the duties and responsibilities of a person operating a vehicle, but does not define bicycles as vehicles.

From the Indiana code, definitions:

IC 9-13-2-196
Vehicle
Sec. 196. (a) "Vehicle" means, except as otherwise provided in this section, a device in, upon, or by which a person or property is, or may be, transported or drawn upon a highway.
(b) "Vehicle", for purposes of IC 9-14 through IC 9-18, does not include the following:
(1) A device moved by human power.
...

To my knowledge, my state (NY) is the same.
So since the bicycle section is IC 9-21, that is, not IC 9-14 through IC 9-18, the above doesn't apply?

Just kidding, I can see the similar ruling later on for IC 9-21, thanks for the detail !
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Old 08-15-11, 07:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjdm View Post
Technically, that gives bicycle riders the duties and responsibilities of a person operating a vehicle, but does not define bicycles as vehicles.

From the Indiana code, definitions:


To my knowledge, my state (NY) is the same.
A "device moved by human power" to me implies something like a wheelbarrow or cart where moving with it requires pushing it rather than riding upon it. From the same link you posted a bicycle is defined as:

IC 9-13-2-14
Bicycle
Sec. 14. "Bicycle" means any foot-propelled vehicle, irrespective of the number of wheels in contact with the ground.


[emphasis mine]

A bicycle is clearly a vehicle and a cyclist clearly a driver of a vehicle in Indiana. It's been a while since I've looked at New York's vehicle code but I believe it is similar. The only state of which I am aware that has a different definition of a bicycle is California where it is considered a "device" but all drivers of those "devices" have the same right as driver's of vehicles.
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Old 08-15-11, 12:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
A "device moved by human power" to me implies something like a wheelbarrow or cart where moving with it requires pushing it rather than riding upon it. From the same link you posted a bicycle is defined as:

IC 9-13-2-14
Bicycle
Sec. 14. "Bicycle" means any foot-propelled vehicle, irrespective of the number of wheels in contact with the ground.


[emphasis mine]
Good find. I don't know. Out of curiosity, I'm looking up NY now...

Quote:
102. Bicycle. Every two or three wheeled device upon which a person
or persons may ride, propelled by human power through a belt, a chain or
gears, with such wheels in a tandem or tricycle, except that it shall
not include such a device having solid tires and intended for use only
on a sidewalk by pre-teenage children.

159. Vehicle. Every device in, upon, or by which any person or
property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except
devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails
or tracks.
(emphasis mine)

As usual, NY has the worse bicycle law...sigh...

I could swear there was a list somewhere of the states that defined bicycles as vehicles and it was depressingly short. Probably early senility. Sigh.
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Old 08-15-11, 12:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroDawg View Post
Downtown. Generally between Lucas Oil Stadium, JW Marriott, and the American Legion Mall. I realise it's a small sample area, but still, only two on the road was somewhat shocking.
There are actual bike lanes on the streets in some parts of that general area. This past Saturday, a criterium was held, on the streets, just a few blocks from American Legion Mall.

I regulary ride around Monument Circle on my way home from work.
I will confess to riding on the sidewalk in the block of Senate Avenue just south of Methodist Hospital this morning - the street is blocked off for utility work.
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Old 08-15-11, 12:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by benjdm View Post
Good find. I don't know. Out of curiosity, I'm looking up NY now...


(emphasis mine)

As usual, NY has the worse bicycle law...sigh...

I could swear there was a list somewhere of the states that defined bicycles as vehicles and it was depressingly short. Probably early senility. Sigh.
Hold off on that... All new road projects funded by the State MUST include multi-modal transport. Complete Streets just passed this past Senate session.
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Old 08-15-11, 01:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by benjdm View Post
As usual, NY has the worse bicycle law...sigh...
I couldn't care less how a bicycle is defined. As long as a cyclist is treated as a driver of a vehicle, everything else is just semantics. Things don't have rights. People do.
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Old 08-15-11, 01:39 PM   #17
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There are actual bike lanes on the streets in some parts of that general area. This past Saturday, a criterium was held, on the streets, just a few blocks from American Legion Mall.

I regulary ride around Monument Circle on my way home from work.
I will confess to riding on the sidewalk in the block of Senate Avenue just south of Methodist Hospital this morning - the street is blocked off for utility work.
I think there is a lot of construction downtown for the Superbowl, too - maybe that's sending people to the sidewalks.

Just for fun, here's a video of the mayor giving advice about cycling on the roads; what's most notable about the video is that he spends half of it telling motorists what to do, including how to avoid dooring bikers. [video]http://indianapolis.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=229[/video]
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Old 08-15-11, 02:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
Hold off on that... All new road projects funded by the State MUST include multi-modal transport. Complete Streets just passed this past Senate session.
The governor hasn't signed it yet, to my knowledge. I've written his office.

ETA: News broke today - he's going to sign it! Huzzah!
http://www.stargazette.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Quote:
Gov. Andrew Cuomo is set today to sign a law that will require planners to consider pedestrians and bicyclists when designing new roads or rebuilding old ones.

Last edited by benjdm; 08-15-11 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 08-15-11, 02:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by benjdm View Post
The governor hasn't signed it yet, to my knowledge. I've written his office.

ETA: News broke today - he's going to sign it! Huzzah!
http://www.stargazette.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
Say hello to more door zone bike lanes!
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Old 08-15-11, 05:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alhedges View Post
I think there is a lot of construction downtown for the Superbowl, too - maybe that's sending people to the sidewalks.

Just for fun, here's a video of the mayor giving advice about cycling on the roads; what's most notable about the video is that he spends half of it telling motorists what to do, including how to avoid dooring bikers. [video]http://indianapolis.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=229[/video]
Not a bad video. Now, if we can just do something about the bike lanes next to parked cars.
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Old 08-15-11, 05:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Indiana does not consider bicycles as 'vehicles', that is why cyclists are on the sidewalk there.
Why do you (seemingly quite often) post things that are absolutely not true? If this was supposed to be sarcasm, some sort of indication would help.
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Old 08-15-11, 05:22 PM   #22
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Bicyclist should obey the traffic laws like cars, everywhere I go I see people on cycles running against traffic patterns, on sidewalks, not stopping on lights. We want to treated the same, we need to act within the rules.
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Old 08-17-11, 12:47 PM   #23
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Bicyclist arrested at gunpoint after chase (In Indy)

http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...t|IndyStar.com
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