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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-23-12, 08:51 AM   #2701
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I dunno: if you look at the poll at the header of this thread, most people wear helmets... Worldwide, I'd say not, but BF members seem to be mainly pro-helmet usage, people posting here post from MHL locations, and the bare-head brigade always seems to complain that they are in a persecuted minority.
most people who took the POLL are helmet-wearers. I don't know that you can extrapolate anything else from that...
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Old 06-23-12, 09:54 AM   #2702
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I just saw a young lady yesterday, fairly new at cycling roll up to a stop sign, attempted to unclip but failed, fell over and smacked her helmeted head on the pavement hard enough to crack the styrofoam liner. I was the not far behind her so obviously I stopped to help. She was holding the side of her head but she was ok...ok in more ways then one if you get my meaning. Anyway, had she not been wearing a helmet I would have to call 911. She was kind of upset with herself and cycling about not being able to unclip so I talked with her for awhile to encourage her. Ahh, to be unmarried and 30 years younger...

I don't care what Mick says, time is not on my side.
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Old 06-23-12, 10:19 AM   #2703
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IAnyway, had she not been wearing a helmet I would have to call 911. She was kind of upset with herself and cycling about not being able to unclip so I talked with her for awhile to encourage her.
Had she (and a zillion others) been using platform pedals she and the other cyclists wouldn't have fallen at all due to the unsafe practice of using racing oriented equipment in non race environments.

Sound the clarion for mandatory platform pedal laws, that incidentally come equipped with safety reflectors unlike the high zoot pedal systems sold at the finest cycling salons that also hawk high price helmets.
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Old 06-23-12, 10:44 AM   #2704
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most people who took the POLL are helmet-wearers. I don't know that you can extrapolate anything else from that...
Most people polled are neither helmet wearers nor non-wearers. Not sure what you can extrapolate from that...
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Old 06-23-12, 11:13 AM   #2705
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Had she (and a zillion others) been using platform pedals she and the other cyclists wouldn't have fallen at all due to the unsafe practice of using racing oriented equipment in non race environments.


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ound the clarion for mandatory platform pedal laws, that incidentally come equipped with safety reflectors unlike the high zoot pedal systems sold at the finest cycling salons that also hawk high price helmets.
Who the hell here is arguing for mandatory anything??

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Old 06-23-12, 05:38 PM   #2706
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I just saw a young lady yesterday, fairly new at cycling roll up to a stop sign, attempted to unclip but failed, fell over and smacked her helmeted head on the pavement hard enough to crack the styrofoam liner. I was the not far behind her so obviously I stopped to help. She was holding the side of her head but she was ok...ok in more ways then one if you get my meaning. Anyway, had she not been wearing a helmet I would have to call 911. She was kind of upset with herself and cycling about not being able to unclip so I talked with her for awhile to encourage her. Ahh, to be unmarried and 30 years younger...

I don't care what Mick says, time is not on my side.
Ignoring the point that a "cracked liner" indicates a helmet failure and minimal energy absorption, and the point that you really have no idea what would have happened to the lady had she not been wearing a helmet, I will again bring up the point that no one is saying that she (or you, or anyone else) should not wear a helmet. We (or me, anyway) are claiming that cycling is not necessarily a dangerous activity and that people should be able to choose what level (if any) of protection is appropriate for a given situation - without being subjected to taunts and insults from people who think they know better.
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Old 06-23-12, 06:27 PM   #2707
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yeah, arm out can equal broken wrists and such
wrong wrong wrong, get use to it.
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Old 06-23-12, 06:34 PM   #2708
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wrong wrong wrong, get use to it.
You might consider sticking with the German
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Old 06-23-12, 06:49 PM   #2709
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wrong wrong wrong, get use to it.

riiiiight..........
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Old 06-23-12, 08:44 PM   #2710
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Ok, you freakin' helmet nazis, listen the freak up. I'm sick of your stupid, inane belief that everyone needs to hear your uninformed, illogical and, frankly, stupid beliefs about magic foam.

Today, I'm having a nice ride with my daughter, popping along the MUP, just enjoying each other's company. Fellow passes us, he's wearing a cool jersey, I tell him hey, nice kit, speed up a bit to get a closer look. We chat all friendly-like for a couple of minutes, I'm about to take my leave, and he says:

"Can I give you a piece of advice?"

I shoulda said no. I just shoulda said no. But, I thought he was going to tell me to keep my daughter locked up because she's a looker, which she is, even though I'm her dad. I can't claim any contribution there. But what the freak does he do? "Y'know, you really should wear a helmet, because-"

I stopped him right there. I cited him 24 seconds of chapter and verse on the research, told him my decision is based on logical analysis of the research, and I don't care if he wears a helmet or not, I'll thank him to ride his ride and I'll ride mine. At that point, I drop back to rejoin my daughter, he slows down and starts telling me how a goddamn stupid piece of foam saved his old, shriveled and worthless stinking ass.

Once again, I told him I've already heard it, and I'm not buying his stupid sales pitch. At which point he rides on ahead, and about minute later, I watched him blow by a stop sign on a busy road crossing the MUP. All I could do was laugh. My daughter just shakes her (unhelmeted) head.

You goddamn stupid helmet gits, you bloody well don't get it, do you? You're all blithering idiots. So **** off.

[/rant]

Thanks for listening. That was fun.
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Old 06-23-12, 10:12 PM   #2711
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Had she (and a zillion others) been using platform pedals she and the other cyclists wouldn't have fallen at all due to the unsafe practice of using racing oriented equipment in non race environments.

Sound the clarion for mandatory platform pedal laws, that incidentally come equipped with safety reflectors unlike the high zoot pedal systems sold at the finest cycling salons that also hawk high price helmets.
Heck yeah, outlaw racing oriented pedals, but if your going to that then outlaw racing oriented bicycles and their components too. Soon we'll all be riding funky cruiser style bikes.
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Old 06-23-12, 10:56 PM   #2712
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Ok, you freakin' helmet nazis, listen the freak up. I'm sick of your stupid, inane belief that everyone needs to hear your uninformed, illogical and, frankly, stupid beliefs about magic foam.

Today, I'm having a nice ride with my daughter, popping along the MUP, just enjoying each other's company. Fellow passes us, he's wearing a cool jersey, I tell him hey, nice kit, speed up a bit to get a closer look. We chat all friendly-like for a couple of minutes, I'm about to take my leave, and he says:

"Can I give you a piece of advice?"

I shoulda said no. I just shoulda said no. But, I thought he was going to tell me to keep my daughter locked up because she's a looker, which she is, even though I'm her dad. I can't claim any contribution there. But what the freak does he do? "Y'know, you really should wear a helmet, because-"

I stopped him right there. I cited him 24 seconds of chapter and verse on the research, told him my decision is based on logical analysis of the research, and I don't care if he wears a helmet or not, I'll thank him to ride his ride and I'll ride mine. At that point, I drop back to rejoin my daughter, he slows down and starts telling me how a goddamn stupid piece of foam saved his old, shriveled and worthless stinking ass.

Once again, I told him I've already heard it, and I'm not buying his stupid sales pitch. At which point he rides on ahead, and about minute later, I watched him blow by a stop sign on a busy road crossing the MUP. All I could do was laugh. My daughter just shakes her (unhelmeted) head.

You goddamn stupid helmet gits, you bloody well don't get it, do you? You're all blithering idiots. So **** off.

[/rant]

Thanks for listening. That was fun.
Pics of your daughter or it didn't happen.
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Old 06-24-12, 04:59 AM   #2713
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Well. If the majority of people wear helmets, and the majority of those in accidents don't wear helmets, isn't it pretty much safe to say that those who don't wear helmets are much less safe riders? Y'know, in general, statistically speaking...?
I don't know the exact statistics in this case, so I'm not really in a position to make an informed comment, but that could definitely be one explanation.

I think, as was noted, it may be a bit of a double-edged sword. People who don helmets are, presumably, starting from a position where you can probably assume they have some care about safety. What my fear is, is that they overestimate what a helmet can do, mostly because it is constantly drilled into everyone's head that "helmets save lives". Even in the best of cases, I don't think most people here think they save lives as a common occurrence (especially since most fatal accidents occur with cars and with severe bodily injury as well); most of the debate seems to center around whether it may sometimes, and whether that warrants wearing one. But that isn't the public perception, due to the way they are presented by public groups. This can lead to some serious risk-compensation behavior, I think moreso and more dangerously than people simply overestimating their abilities. People overestimating themselves happens in all activities, and there isn't a whole lot you can do to effectively stop it (an alarming number of people still think they can drive adequately while intoxicated, something we've gone to great pains to fight against). But the helmet risk-compensation factor is an additional variable that we can control, simply by educating the public to their limitations. Accuse me of being anti-helmet if you wish, but that really is my major goal. Past that, I don't much care if someone decides to don one, although I do see it as mostly unnecessary.

Long-winded, but I think I needed to expand on that a bit.
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Old 06-24-12, 08:17 AM   #2714
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Hey skye, you bring back memories of the guy who chewed me out for not having a bell.
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Old 06-24-12, 08:35 AM   #2715
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I don't know the exact statistics in this case, so I'm not really in a position to make an informed comment, but that could definitely be one explanation.

I think, as was noted, it may be a bit of a double-edged sword. People who don helmets are, presumably, starting from a position where you can probably assume they have some care about safety. What my fear is, is that they overestimate what a helmet can do, mostly because it is constantly drilled into everyone's head that "helmets save lives". Even in the best of cases, I don't think most people here think they save lives as a common occurrence (especially since most fatal accidents occur with cars and with severe bodily injury as well); most of the debate seems to center around whether it may sometimes, and whether that warrants wearing one. But that isn't the public perception, due to the way they are presented by public groups. This can lead to some serious risk-compensation behavior, I think moreso and more dangerously than people simply overestimating their abilities. People overestimating themselves happens in all activities, and there isn't a whole lot you can do to effectively stop it (an alarming number of people still think they can drive adequately while intoxicated, something we've gone to great pains to fight against). But the helmet risk-compensation factor is an additional variable that we can control, simply by educating the public to their limitations. Accuse me of being anti-helmet if you wish, but that really is my major goal. Past that, I don't much care if someone decides to don one, although I do see it as mostly unnecessary.

Long-winded, but I think I needed to expand on that a bit.
I'd say that people who don helmets without really thinking it through or heeding the limitations of helmet protection as labeled by the manufacturers are starting from a position of "cycling is dangerous," rather than the more sensible, "cycling is not an inherently dangerous activity," POV.

Still, they are a bit more insulated from the world at large than those who think that cycling is an inherently safe activity, with just that infinitesimal margin of helmet usage, than those who choose not to use a helmet. Like newbies who have a penchant for falling over at a stop because they are otherwise engaged.

Do helmets provide or not provide some rudimentary protection within their design parameters for people who might engage the protective abilities as tested?
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Old 06-24-12, 10:28 AM   #2716
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Heck yeah, outlaw racing oriented pedals, but if your going to that then outlaw racing oriented bicycles and their components too. Soon we'll all be riding funky cruiser style bikes.
And the cyclists WOULD be safer too since both accident probabilities and severities would be reduced:
*lesser probability of higher speed collisions/crashes with its associated greater severity injuries,
*less collisions in traffic caused by the "racing" handlebar/posture encouraging looking down at the ground rather than forward,
*fewer collisions due to road debris and storm grates as a result of more forgiving wider tires,
*fewer collisions caused by reckless cyclists encouraged by their choice of equipment and its intended purpose to ride on bike paths and among pedestrians as if they are a dang race.

Yes use of racing equipment should be outlawed on public roads and MUPS and bikepaths, or at the very least discouraged with cycling club mandates and derisive talk of idiocy and Darwinism just like the helmet mongering acolytes proselytize; - If "safety at all costs," no matter how foolishly defined, is the be-all and end-all answer for all cycling issues.
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Old 06-24-12, 11:01 AM   #2717
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And the cyclists WOULD be safer too since both accident probabilities and severities would be reduced:
*lesser probability of higher speed collisions/crashes with its associated greater severity injuries,
*less collisions in traffic caused by the "racing" handlebar/posture encouraging looking down at the ground rather than forward,
*fewer collisions due to road debris and storm grates as a result of more forgiving wider tires,
*fewer collisions caused by reckless cyclists encouraged by their choice of equipment and its intended purpose to ride on bike paths and among pedestrians as if they are a dang race.

Yes use of racing equipment should be outlawed on public roads and MUPS and bikepaths, or at the very least discouraged with cycling club mandates and derisive talk of idiocy and Darwinism just like the helmet mongering acolytes proselytize; - If "safety at all costs," no matter how foolishly defined, is the be-all and end-all answer for all cycling issues.
Huh.

So what bends of handlebars should be outlawed? What gearing combos...?
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Old 06-24-12, 01:17 PM   #2718
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Pics of your daughter or it didn't happen.
Heh. You're ok, it's the 5,687,233 pedobears out there that would make me nervy.
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Old 06-24-12, 04:11 PM   #2719
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Huh.

So what bends of handlebars should be outlawed? What gearing combos...?
Reread my post and figure out the intent yourself, smart guy. And if you can't, I suggest that you may lack the intellectual wherewithal to figure out how to cycle safely, no matter with what you adorn yourself or what equipment you use.
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Old 06-24-12, 05:00 PM   #2720
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Ok brother ringing my bell, "On your left"....
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Old 06-24-12, 10:06 PM   #2721
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Heh. You're ok, it's the 5,687,233 pedobears out there that would make me nervy.
Sorry about that. Figured we were talking about an adult daughter. </creepy>
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Old 06-24-12, 10:07 PM   #2722
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You might consider sticking with the German
says the tyrannosaurus rex with the useless arms.
if you were to simply stumble walking down the street would you use your face to stop yourself?
oh and skate boarding isn't bike riding, that's what we call apples and oranges.
yep, I can see why some of you need helmets, what with those stubby little arms flailing about.

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Old 06-24-12, 11:10 PM   #2723
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says the tyrannosaurus rex with the useless arms.
if you were to simply stumble walking down the street would you use your face to stop yourself?
oh and skate boarding isn't bike riding, that's what we call apples and oranges.
yep, I can see why some of you need helmets, what with those stubby little arms flailing about.
Riding a bike down the MUP ain't riding a horse down the bridal trail but they're pretty damn similar. Are non-helmeted bridal trail riders all going to die?
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Old 06-25-12, 12:34 AM   #2724
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and you thought you were just being metaphorical...........
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Old 06-25-12, 12:41 AM   #2725
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wrong wrong wrong, get use to it.
Er, not wrong. One of the very few significant injuries I have ever sustained from cycling was a broken arm when I put my hand down to break my fall after someone went down in front of me on some gravel. I should have just rolled with the fall.
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