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View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?

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1569. You may not vote on this poll
  • I've never worn a bike helmet

    164 10.45%
  • I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped

    88 5.61%
  • I've always worn a helmet

    609 38.81%
  • I didn't wear a helmet, but now do

    389 24.79%
  • I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions

    319 20.33%
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  1. #2726
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    I'd say that people who don helmets without really thinking it through or heeding the limitations of helmet protection as labeled by the manufacturers are starting from a position of "cycling is dangerous," rather than the more sensible, "cycling is not an inherently dangerous activity," POV.
    This is the problem with trying to guess people's intentions; you can usually come up with more than one logical conclusion.

    Do helmets provide or not provide some rudimentary protection within their design parameters for people who might engage the protective abilities as tested?
    I don't know if you are asking me or if this is rhetorical, but since we all like to blather on apparently, I'll assume the latter .

    If you are asking me, then yes, I think so. My argument has always been simply that the protection they provide is much less than the general public may think (including cyclists), and that I personally feel that most adults doing general purpose riding probably stand to gain relatively little-to-nothing. And I do think it is a bit logically inconsistent to wear one for riding but not jogging or running. But ultimately, it can be useful in some situations (as I've noted before, I wear one during slippery conditions (especially the first rain in dry Fresno, when all the oil in the road surfaces)) knowing that it probably won't save my life, but might save me a few stitches in a situation where I'm much more likely to go down.

    My real concern though is simply educating about what they can and can't do; past that, I don't really care all that much if someone thinks they need one, whether or not they do in reality. Who am I to judge? As long as they don't try to nag me for wearing one, I'm OK with it (I'm even OK with people mentioning it... I realize they are concerned for my safety. But once I've said "no thanks" they need to lay off )
    Last edited by sudo bike; 06-25-12 at 02:56 AM.
    "The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."

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  2. #2727
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuz View Post
    You can check the coroner's report here: LINK

    As far as I can understand, the recommendations regarding helmets are unsubstantiated. Here are the relevant bits I could find.



    The logic seems to be: more deaths without helmet --> helmets save lives
    Interesting article in the Globe and Mail this morning. It pegs Ontarios helmet usage rate at 31%, which places the stat of 26% of cyclists wearing helmets dying in a different perspective.

    I think this (missing) information discredits the Coroners recommendation


    http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/na...service=mobile
    Last edited by closetbiker; 06-25-12 at 06:41 PM.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  3. #2728
    Tiocfáidh ár Lá jfmckenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Sorry about that. Figured we were talking about an adult daughter. </creepy>
    I was gonna say the same thing, glad I held back now. You know there is a special offender list out there for people like you
    If you don't talk to your cat about catnip, who will? =^.^=

  4. #2729
    Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad Rx Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    Er, not wrong. One of the very few significant injuries I have ever sustained from cycling was a broken arm when I put my hand down to break my fall after someone went down in front of me on some gravel. I should have just rolled with the fall.

    the point I was making was the zero speed fall. that's what I was talking about when someone decided to once again paint the world in the widest black and white strokes possible and hijack my intent. I'm not suggesting "straight arming" (not what I said) a high speed fall. I'm saying if an adult falls over at zero miles an hour and doesn't put an arm or a leg out to minimize the impact with the ground I will laugh my ass off, as I did with the chap I saw do this. AND if people think a zero speed fall is why a helmet is needed then they need to pick up golf because cycling is not for them. AGAIN ZERO SPEED FALL EVERYONE, the same speed we stand at.

  5. #2730
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    If I know I'm going down at 0 mph I still try to tuck my arm in and roll over onto my back.

    YMMV. Do what you want, wear what you want.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  6. #2731
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    Interesting article in the Globe and Mail this morning.

    http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/na...service=mobile
    Renata D'Aliesio's article lacks any sources for the most important factual claims in it:

    1. It cites some old geezer who fell off a bicycle and split his helmet and claims that his life was thus saved.
    2. It claims that helmets save lives:
    Quote Originally Posted by Renata D'Aliesio Globe and Mail
    But proponents of helmets believe the brain is worthy of protection, likening headgear to seat belts: Both reduce injuries and deaths and are used more often when legislated.
    I thought the article was biased and, more importantly, lacked any citations for the more important assertions that she shoe-horned in there among the fear-mongering. The Globe and Mail can do much better and the sub-editor needs to go back to journalism school.

  7. #2732
    tuz
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    Interesting article in the Globe and Mail this morning. It pegs Ontarios helmet usage rate at 31%, which places the stat of 26% of cyclists wearing helmets dying in a different perspective.

    I think this (missing) information discredits the Coroners recommendation


    http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/na...service=mobile
    Hmm. If the helmet wearing rate is higher in the general population than in the dead group, doesn't that mean that wearing a helmet lowers the risk? Might not be significant, and you'd have to adjust for sex and age...
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
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  8. #2733
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazrSkutr View Post
    Renata D'Aliesio's article lacks any sources for the most important factual claims in it:

    1. It cites some old geezer who fell off a bicycle and split his helmet and claims that his life was thus saved.
    2. It claims that helmets save lives:


    I thought the article was biased and, more importantly, lacked any citations for the more important assertions that she shoe-horned in there among the fear-mongering. The Globe and Mail can do much better and the sub-editor needs to go back to journalism school.
    Of course the article states that it is the geezer who fell, and proponents of helmets who are making such claims, and then goes on to say that what they claim, research has shown not to be necessarily true.

    The number of serious head injuries from cycling has dropped in Canada, to 665 in 2009-10 from 907 in 2001-02, but, according to a yet-to-be published study, it doesn’t appear helmet laws are the chief driver behind the decline. In evaluating data from 1994 to 2008, Canadian researchers found that helmet legislation on its own had no measurable effect on the rate of hospitalizations for cycling head injuries.
    Of particular note is the name of an author quoted, one Mr. Ryan Zarychanski, who last I read was quoted in an article in which he was advocating mandatory helmet laws all across the country saying, It's atrocious that in 2010, every province does not have some sort of helmet legislation... Clearly, helmet legislation works and clearly it reduces serious head injuries and facial lacerations."

    Now he's saying, “There is uncertainty whether [wearing helmets], combined with everything else, makes a large difference. Does that mean legislation doesn’t work? I don’t know. It means it’s complicated.”
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  9. #2734
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuz View Post
    Hmm. If the helmet wearing rate is higher in the general population than in the dead group, doesn't that mean that wearing a helmet lowers the risk? Might not be significant, and you'd have to adjust for sex and age...
    If the helmet wearing group has a much higher rate of fatality than the non-helmet wearing group, doesn't that mean those wearing helmets were running the greater risk?

    Not necessarily, because it is more the conditions of the incident that caused the death that is the more reliable indicator, but people who want to believe in the helmet credit survival to the helmet, even if the helmet had nothing to do with the survival.

    Proponents of helmets also like to point to simple things like, more people die without helmets, to convince others. A key element in conveying this belief is to restrict information like wearing rates that show the information to be not as it is. In other words, they use poor arguments, wrapped in deception, just like some BF members do on this thread to justify their mocking of those who choose to go without a lid.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  10. #2735
    tuz
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    If the helmet wearing group has a much higher rate of fatality than the non-helmet wearing group, doesn't that mean those wearing helmets were running the greater risk?

    Not necessarily, because it is more the conditions of the incident that caused the death that is the more reliable indicator, but people who want to believe in the helmet credit survival to the helmet, even if the helmet had nothing to do with the survival.

    Proponents of helmets also like to point to simple things like, more people die without helmets, to convince others. A key element in conveying this belief is to restrict information like wearing rates that show the information to be not as it is. In other words, they use poor arguments, wrapped in deception, just like some BF members do on this thread to justify their mocking of those who choose to go without a lid.
    I agree that helmets are not really relevant when fatal incidents occur. And if you are investigating the behavioural effects helmets may or may not have, you have to look at all injuries and not restrict to fatalities.

    If the general helmet wearing rate was say 99% or 1%, then you could draw some conclusions. But in this case it's likely too close to be significant. For instance most fatalities were male, and the wearing rate is lower for males too.
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
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  11. #2736
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuz View Post
    ... If the general helmet wearing rate was say 99% or 1%, then you could draw some conclusions. But in this case it's likely too close to be significant. For instance most fatalities were male, and the wearing rate is lower for males too.
    The conclusion that the Cornoer comes to (because 3 times the amount of cyclists die without helmets, helmet use should be mandatory) is as rational as if he had said that males should not be allowed to ride bicycles because males make up 86% of fatalities on bicycles.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  12. #2737
    Senior Member curbtender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    The conclusion that the Cornoer comes to (because 3 times the amount of cyclists die without helmets, helmet use should be mandatory) is as rational as if he had said that males should not be allowed to ride bicycles because males make up 86% of fatalities on bicycles.
    Big Dummie syndrome...

  13. #2738
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNoo9ZekHbs I saw this yesterday morning while watching a commercial for a lawyer. It sure got my attention. I always wear a helmet.

  14. #2739
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondK43 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNoo9ZekHbs I saw this yesterday morning while watching a commercial for a lawyer. It sure got my attention. I always wear a helmet.
    Yeah, because paying acttention to where you're riding doesn't matter at all...
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  15. #2740
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondK43 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNoo9ZekHbs I saw this yesterday morning while watching a commercial for a lawyer. It sure got my attention. I always wear a helmet.
    If you make life decisions based on things you see while watching lawyer commercials, go for it. Don't be shocked when not everyone follows suit.
    "The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."

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  16. #2741
    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    While my riding platform pretty much precludes an endo, I'm wearing one to set an example for the kids and to keep the wife happy.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

  17. #2742
    Mister Bleak! mconlonx's Avatar
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    Majority of people who wear helmets, do so out of the mistaken impression that a helmet will provide some modicum of safety, such safety effects attributed to helmets in very outsize and outlandish proportion to what they are actually good for.

    Still, the perception is that if you are wearing a helmet, you are a safe rider (in locations where this might be the case...). A helmet certainly won't keep you from riding safely, right?

    So why not wear one? If helmet use is the primary factor in indicating to other, less informed riders and the general public that you are a safe rider, why not wear one simply to indicate that you are among those who ride safely? That you identify as a proficient rider to those who don't know The Savage Truth About Helmets and Those Who Use Them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus regarding mconlonx View Post
    You, I don't generally think of you as clueless. You're kind of ok.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  18. #2743
    just ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondK43 View Post
    Haha, I laughed my helmet off when I saw that.
    what is this 'road tax' you speak of?

  19. #2744
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Majority of people who wear helmets, do so out of the mistaken impression that a helmet will provide some modicum of safety, such safety effects attributed to helmets in very outsize and outlandish proportion to what they are actually good for.
    very good. this is correct.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  20. #2745
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Majority of people who wear helmets, do so out of the mistaken impression that a helmet will provide some modicum of safety, such safety effects attributed to helmets in very outsize and outlandish proportion to what they are actually good for.

    Still, the perception is that if you are wearing a helmet, you are a safe rider (in locations where this might be the case...). A helmet certainly won't keep you from riding safely, right?

    So why not wear one? If helmet use is the primary factor in indicating to other, less informed riders and the general public that you are a safe rider, why not wear one simply to indicate that you are among those who ride safely? That you identify as a proficient rider to those who don't know The Savage Truth About Helmets and Those Who Use Them?
    Because I just don't give a **** about what the public thinks about me - especially those members of the public who are so mud-dumb stupid that they automatically think "Organ donor! Darwin candidate! I'm going to yell stuff at him!" when they see an unhelmeted cyclist.

    My pipe-dream, WRT public perception of helmet use, is to return folks to a time where people let people decide what is best for themselves. Me putting on a helmet to placate the above-mentioned mud-dumb stupid crowd does not further that goal.

  21. #2746
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    So why not wear one? If helmet use is the primary factor in indicating to other, less informed riders and the general public that you are a safe rider, why not wear one simply to indicate that you are among those who ride safely? That you identify as a proficient rider to those who don't know The Savage Truth About Helmets and Those Who Use Them?
    Unbelievable! Ignoramuses who would use their helmets as "indicating" and "identifying" signals to their comrades in ignorance.

  22. #2747
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    Since I too ride recumbents the chances of head injury is quite low, especially on my trike. Accident do happen tho and I am prepared. Also as another poster wrote, it is a good example for kids.

  23. #2748
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Since I too ride recumbents the chances of head injury is quite low, especially on my trike. Accident do happen tho and I am prepared. Also as another poster wrote, it is a good example for kids.
    Yes, I'm sure kids have a great appreciation for an oldster riding a recumbent tricycle and will strive to emulate that example.

  24. #2749
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Vancouver is currently hosting Velo City 2012, and as you may guess, along with bike lanes, and bike share, our helmet law is a hot topic.

    In this mornings paper is an article featuring a Dutch economist, educator and cycling advocate Hans Voerknecht who is not a fan of helmets.

    Voerknecht said Wednesday that European statistics indicate helmets are not pivotal in preventing injuries and they prevent people from cycling.

    ... He held up the Vancouver conference guide, which features a cyclist wearing a helmet peddling along with the ocean, the city, the mountains and beautiful blue sky in the background.

    “What’s the least attractive thing about this picture?” he said to laughter from the audience. “We all know what it is.”

    Voerknecht blamed what he called “the fear industry” for portraying cycling as dangerous, when he said cycling is about fun and freedom, sustainability and health.
    http://www.theprovince.com/news/News...#ixzz1z6PW4S9o

    In a related side bar story, there's a story that says, "Statistics show helmets help save cyclist lives: coroners service"

    New statistics on cyclist deaths compiled by the BC Coroners Service show helmet use helps save lives.

    In the 2007 to 2012 (ytd) figures, 68 per cent of those who have a fatal spill (without car involvement) are not wearing a helmet.

    Of those who died after some sort of accident involving a vehicle, 55 per cent did not have a helmet on.
    Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Stat...#ixzz1z6Q7sTZw

    of course these are laughable statics, and "prove" nothing of the sort, they just perpetuate the poor argments people use to justify the "importance" of wearing a helmet
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  25. #2750
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Unbelievable! Ignoramuses who would use their helmets as "indicating" and "identifying" signals to their comrades in ignorance.
    Why would you care? I can't believe the degree of hatred you have for some one who thinks differently then you do. Talk about being ignorant.

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