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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-28-11, 08:39 PM   #376
david58
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The world would be a sadder place without the occasional shotgun-toting, tequila-drinking, Mustang-driving teenaged girl.
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Old 10-29-11, 12:01 AM   #377
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The world would be a sadder place without the occasional shotgun-toting, tequila-drinking, Mustang-driving teenaged girl.
A sad place without the occasional shotgun-toting, tequila-drinking, Mustang-driving teenaged girl, who knows what she's doing (I think I dated a couple of those in my youth)
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Old 10-29-11, 12:11 AM   #378
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A sad place without the occasional shotgun-toting, tequila-drinking, Mustang-driving teenaged girl, who knows what she's doing (I think I dated a couple of those in my youth)
Lucky. I once knew a teenaged girl with a Mustang, but it was her father who drank and had the shotgun. So that didn't work out.
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Old 10-29-11, 06:00 AM   #379
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I saw a couple of those dads too... I think it was the latent guilt that brought them to such a state. Like helmets, it's always about something else...
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Old 10-29-11, 07:52 AM   #380
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Lucky. I once knew a teenaged girl with a Mustang, but it was her father who drank and had the shotgun. So that didn't work out.


Right now she's on a like a bike and uses a bow and arrow. I'm working on the tequila.
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Old 10-29-11, 09:38 AM   #381
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As chipcom pointed out, no such "anti-helmet crowd" exists, nor does anyone care whether or not you wear a helmet.
This has been stated over and over again in this thread. Failure to grasp this concept could possibly indicate a cognitive dysfunction condition.
You may want to consult a physician as early diagnosis is often the key to curing or minimizing the impact of such problems.
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Old 10-29-11, 12:02 PM   #382
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Let's face it. The bicycle helmet is the ONLY piece of equipment we purchase that does not do what it is advertised to do. It does not save lives, it does not prevent concussions and yet cyclists are prepared to shell out hundreds for this accessory. Would we purchase water bottles that failed to hold water, tubes that failed to inflate? I think not.
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Old 10-29-11, 12:03 PM   #383
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Let's face it. The bicycle helmet is the ONLY piece of equipment we purchase that does not do what it is advertised to do. It does not save lives, it does not prevent concussions and yet cyclists are prepared to shell out hundreds for this accessory. Would we purchase water bottles that failed to hold water, tubes that failed to inflate? I think not.
Where do manufacturers advertise that helmets save lives and prevent concussions?
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Old 10-29-11, 01:04 PM   #384
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Where do manufacturers advertise that helmets save lives and prevent concussions?
You'll never find a manufacturer make such a claim, maybe because so many "safety" advocacy groups do that work for them.

Typical is the retoric from "Safe Kids"

http://www.safekidscanada.ca/Profess...met/Index.aspx

"Head injuries are the leading cause of severe injury and injury-related deaths to children on bicycles.

Research shows that a properly fitted helmet can decrease the risk of serious head injury by over 85 per cent. This means that four out of five head injuries could be prevented if every cyclist wore a helmet.

Solution: All-ages helmet legislation"

Last edited by closetbiker; 10-29-11 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 10-29-11, 01:10 PM   #385
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Where Safe Kids misleads is that fewer than 18% of fatalities involve the head only, and most of those involve forces greater than a helmet can handle
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Old 10-29-11, 01:11 PM   #386
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Where do manufacturers advertise that helmets save lives and prevent concussions?
Now I realize that you know next to nothing and I realize that you are frequently wrong...so I will be patient. I did not say manufacturers say this , they can't. However the sales staff and secondary sellers promote and sell helmets by just such statements as this... from R.E.I.
How To Buy A Cycling Helmet

Proper protection is important for all cyclers, no matter what type of bike you are riding. A proper fitting helmet can prevent most serious head injuries. However, your helmet will do you no good if it does not fit properly.


The clear implication is that this product will save your life and only a fool would choose to ride without it.
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Old 10-29-11, 01:27 PM   #387
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Now I realize that you know next to nothing and I realize that you are frequently wrong...so I will be patient. I did not say manufacturers say this , they can't. However the sales staff and secondary sellers promote and sell helmets by just such statements as this... from R.E.I.
How To Buy A Cycling Helmet

Proper protection is important for all cyclers, no matter what type of bike you are riding. A proper fitting helmet can prevent most serious head injuries. However, your helmet will do you no good if it does not fit properly.


The clear implication is that this product will save your life and only a fool would choose to ride without it.
You're probably wasting your time. "mconlonx" works in a bike shop and as the profit on accessories is higher than actual bike sales he has a significant financial interest in keeping the customers buying pieces of styrofoam which need to be replaced regularly (at least every 3 years as the magic smoke leaks out of them after that).
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Old 10-29-11, 01:31 PM   #388
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The bicycle helmet is the ONLY piece of equipment we purchase that does not do what it is advertised to do. It does not save lives, it does not prevent concussions and yet cyclists are prepared to shell out hundreds for this accessory. Would we purchase water bottles that failed to hold water, tubes that failed to inflate? I think not.
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I did not say manufacturers say this , they can't.

The clear implication is that this product will save your life and only a fool would choose to ride without it.
So it's not actually helmet manufacturers that are advertising such claims. And those who are making such claims, aren't actually advertising them, just promoting and selling by implication.

Got it.
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Old 10-29-11, 01:38 PM   #389
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You're probably wasting your time. "mconlonx" works in a bike shop and as the profit on accessories is higher than actual bike sales he has a significant financial interest in keeping the customers buying pieces of styrofoam which need to be replaced regularly (at least every 3 years as the magic smoke leaks out of them after that).
I do work in a shop. I do sell the occasional helmet. We do make more margin on helmets, like other accessories, than we do on bikes, but much less margin selling helmets than selling service. My financial interest in selling helmets is extremely limited -- we don't work on commission and helmet sales are an extremely small dollar figure compared to sales overall, thus contributing very little to my eventual take-home pay. I also do not sell helmets based on age of customer's current helmet or any mystical replace-by date.

Your ability to make incorrect assumptions is as great as those who wear helmets, thinking it will save them when involved in a high-speed car accident, or that a helmet will save them from concussion.
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Old 10-29-11, 02:02 PM   #390
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So it's not actually helmet manufacturers that are advertising such claims. And those who are making such claims, aren't actually advertising them, just promoting and selling by implication.

Got it.
Yup. Manufacturers aren't going to say it. In fact, they place warning stickers on the things that tell consumers that the helmet cannot be relied upon to prevent any injury from happenning. They still do nothing to stop others from saying it and even sponsor helmet promotion groups who are attempting to pass MHLs.



http://www.helmetssavelives.org/

The single most effective safety device available to reduce head injury and death from bicycle crashes is a helmet.

Bike Helmet: Difference of Life or Death

Paying attention to riding and avoiding distractions from cellphones and music players ranks second on the Canada Safety Council's top tips for improving cycling safety — behind wearing a helmet.

Last edited by closetbiker; 10-29-11 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 10-29-11, 02:29 PM   #391
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yes, you must be. Spend a decade or three subjected to this debate (or law or politics in general) and you'll understand why words matter.
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So it's not actually helmet manufacturers that are advertising such claims. And those who are making such claims, aren't actually advertising them, just promoting and selling by implication.

Got it.
Ahhh.....I see you really do not understand and are frequently wrong. Silly me I thought it just a byline. Got it.
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Old 10-29-11, 04:13 PM   #392
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Ahhh.....I see you really do not understand and are frequently wrong. Silly me I thought it just a byline. Got it.
My sig line is a test. You fail.

When you descend to the level of argument, to the same very loose language for which the Champions Of Helmets are routinely harangued, y'all come off just about as believable/fanatical/misguided as they are.

Did you miss the nickname bestowed on me in one of these threads...?
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Old 10-29-11, 04:30 PM   #393
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My sig line is a test. You fail.

When you descend to the level of argument, to the same very loose language for which the Champions Of Helmets are routinely harangued, y'all come off just about as believable/fanatical/misguided as they are.

Did you miss the nickname bestowed on me in one of these threads...?
No but as Freud said, there is no such thing as a joke. Though I was ready to concede that your byline was meant as a self deprakating joke, I see now that Freud is quite correct. What was meant as humor is quite true. Got it again.
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Old 10-29-11, 04:40 PM   #394
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You're probably wasting your time. "mconlonx" works in a bike shop and as the profit on accessories is higher than actual bike sales he has a significant financial interest in keeping the customers buying pieces of styrofoam which need to be replaced regularly (at least every 3 years as the magic smoke leaks out of them after that).
Nothing like a good old ad hominem to save one the trouble of thinking.
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Old 10-29-11, 04:48 PM   #395
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Nothing like a good old ad hominem to save one the trouble of thinking.
Yeah, especially if you're the sort of person that can't distinguish between a false and true ad hominem.

Meanwhile, people selling helmets have nothing to gain by their sale ... except ______ [10 points]
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Old 10-29-11, 04:57 PM   #396
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Nothing like a good old ad hominem to save one the trouble of thinking.
put it this way. If the price of a helmet paid by the shop was more than what the shops customers were willing to pay, would the shop sell them?

Lets not fool ourselves, safety isn't the prime consideration in business.
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Old 10-29-11, 04:58 PM   #397
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...However the sales staff and secondary sellers promote and sell helmets by just such statements as this... from R.E.I.
How To Buy A Cycling Helmet

Proper protection is important for all cyclers, no matter what type of bike you are riding. A proper fitting helmet can prevent most serious head injuries. However, your helmet will do you no good if it does not fit properly.


The clear implication is that this product will save your life and only a fool would choose to ride without it.
PS. Your example from REI -- although it is demonstrably informationally incorrect -- does not advertise helmets as saving lives or preventing concussions.

Again, your hyperbole matches that of the "wrecked, and a helmet SAVED MY LIFE!!!" crew.
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Old 10-29-11, 04:59 PM   #398
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...people selling helmets have nothing to gain by their sale ... except ______ [10 points]
monetary gain
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Old 10-29-11, 05:03 PM   #399
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Meanwhile, people selling helmets have nothing to gain by their sale ... except ______ [10 points]
Happy customers? 10% off helmet purchase day you buy a bike.
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Old 10-29-11, 06:49 PM   #400
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Has Bell ever invested in any, "how to ride safe" programs that didn't involve use of helmets?

I know there are plenty of such programs, but almost every one of them emphasizes the use of helmets. (programs in the US, Canada, Australia, and NZ, that is; elsewhere, it's another story)

Has Bell sponsored any initiative to promote or teach responsible driving practices?

Just wondering if Bell is interested in promoting any form of safety for bicycling if it doesn't involve sales.

Last edited by closetbiker; 10-29-11 at 07:39 PM.
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