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View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?

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  • I've never worn a bike helmet

    178 10.66%
  • I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped

    94 5.63%
  • I've always worn a helmet

    648 38.80%
  • I didn't wear a helmet, but now do

    408 24.43%
  • I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions

    342 20.48%
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  1. #4176
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    I think this is very close to the truth. And also goes a long way toward explaining why helmetless riders often get pretty uptight about being lectured: if you've been doing this for 40 years, you don't appreciate some low-mile A-hole telling you how to do it.
    Sure, I can just see it now: some newb bike rider wobbling along on their brand new hybrid, tch-tch-ing and giving you the stank-eye, who don't even know enough to recognize by your riding style, comfort on the bike, and equipment that you have decades of experience, also not realizing that experience counts for much more than a helmet where bike safety is concerned.

    And then they lecture you about helmet use???

    I don't really know you, but I can only imagine your reaction and wish desperately that someone, sometime would get a video of it...

    If I ever hear of a cyclist being assaulted by another cyclist, beating them with a frame pump, you'll come first to mind...
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  2. #4177
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Got it. In that case, please refer to the quote which shows up beneath all your posts.

    If accidents skew toward those who don't wear helmets because of their inexperience, of course reportage will indicate such.

    In order for that statistic to be true, helmeted riders would have to crash at the same rate as unhelmeted riders. Do you know that this is the case? Because if you don't, that statistic does not mean what you think it does...
    Yes, I agree... My 4.5 number is from incomplete data and assumes the ratio of helmeted and non-helmeted riders was 50/50, one would need to know the total accidents that happened with serious head injuries and the ratio of helmeted and non-helmeted riders involved. I'm 100% sure that if those numbers were available the 4.5 number would rise significantly. JMO

    EDIT; As for experienced and non experienced riders accident rates, I don't think it has any bearing on the question of whether a helmet helps or hurts in an actual accident. JMO
    Last edited by 350htrr; 11-14-12 at 10:56 AM.
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  3. #4178
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
    I was googling "Swedish bicycle helmet" when I found out about this.
    Shopping for condoms?
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  4. #4179
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    Oh no, are we back to wearing a helmet in the shower? wearing a helmet while walking?
    Well there's always two sides to any story... So.. Mayhaps the A-hole part can also represent you...
    Seriously, do you have some kind of disability?

  5. #4180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Seriously, do you have some kind of disability?
    Disability? No I don't think so... I tend to think outside of the box and have strong viewpoints and say what I think about the subject I'm talking about, but I do try to be courteous/civil even when being contrary, and try to respect others viewpoint's... How-about you? Calling people A-Holes just because they say something that you don't agree with seems like maybe a problem...?
    Last edited by 350htrr; 11-14-12 at 09:00 PM.
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  6. #4181
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
    Shopping for condoms?
    No, but I can tell where your head's at.

    John
    John Ratliff

  7. #4182
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    Yes, I agree... My 4.5 number is from incomplete data and assumes the ratio of helmeted and non-helmeted riders was 50/50, one would need to know the total accidents that happened with serious head injuries and the ratio of helmeted and non-helmeted riders involved. I'm 100% sure that if those numbers were available the 4.5 number would rise significantly.
    So, your passion for data extends to your being "100% sure" that you know what the result would be despite not having the data available. Clearly a man with an open mind whose conclusions are driven by the evidence.

    Have a look at this. As you will see, between 1986 and 2000 the casualty rates for cyclists and pedestrians declined at similar rates. In fact, for pedestrians it declined slightly faster than for cyclists, despite the fact that during the period, increasing numbers of cyclists started wearing helmets, while pedestrians did not. In the light of this data, your 100% confidence that helmeted riders are more than 4.5 times safer than the unhelmeted looks pretty ridiculous.

  8. #4183
    Senior Member skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
    For those of you who don't want to wear a helmet, and don't want to mess up your hair, there is now an alternative.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1784264.html

    I was googling "Swedish bicycle helmet" when I found out about this. Now, if people in Sweden did not think there was a problem with bicycle head injuries, why in the world would they finance developing an "invisible helmet." So now when you look at those videos of people in Sweden bicycling bare-headed, look closely to see whether they are wearing something around their neck.

    John
    "people in Sweden" did not think anything about this. Some entrepreneurs had an idea and were able to market up some seed money from venture capitalists who thought they might make a couple of kronor on the deal. If you think that this represents some informed opinion on bicycle safety or head trauma, boy have I got a Kickstarter project to sell you.

  9. #4184
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    So, your passion for data extends to your being "100% sure" that you know what the result would be despite not having the data available. Clearly a man with an open mind whose conclusions are driven by the evidence.
    Now I got myself in a quandary, as I do have those numbers, and they are higher, and not for the faint hearted... But because I actually do believe that statistic line by Andrew Lang below, I have decided not to post it and avoid becoming that person that is leaning on stats to "prove" anything.
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  10. #4185
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    "people in Sweden" did not think anything about this. Some entrepreneurs had an idea and were able to market up some seed money from venture capitalists who thought they might make a couple of kronor on the deal. If you think that this represents some informed opinion on bicycle safety or head trauma, boy have I got a Kickstarter project to sell you.
    No, this was tongue-in-cheek. You guys get way too serious about comparing the USA and places like Sweden. You may want to watch this video, as it shows the device in a bit different manner. Also, the last statement in very interesting.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_781575.html

    John
    Last edited by John C. Ratliff; 11-15-12 at 12:18 PM.
    John Ratliff

  11. #4186
    Senior Member skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
    No, this was tongue-in-cheek. You guys get way too serious about comparing the USA and places like Sweden.
    In this entire thread of 4,186 posts, Sweden has been mentioned exactly 12 times. Five of those occurrences were as a result of your most recent post. So, no, your statement is false.

    Saw the video, John. In fact, I requested the crash data or a summary thereof from the entrepreneurs, as evidence (beyond cool-looking video) that their device provided necessary protection.

    I'm still waiting for a response. Which means either their research is bull****, their results are bull**** or the whole thing is bull****. People who are confident of their research, and not just trying to sell a product, publish their research.

    These people have nothing of value for the cyclist. But, if you want to make-believe in the absence of data, be my guest.

  12. #4187
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    How on earth did this not get posted here...?


    Objecting to Australia's ridiculous bicycle helmet laws has led to my licence being suspended and property seized

    Just over a year ago, my property was seized and shortly afterwards my driver's licence suspended, because I'd refused to wear a bicycle helmet in Australia....
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  13. #4188
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    In this entire thread of 4,186 posts, Sweden has been mentioned exactly 12 times. Five of those occurrences were as a result of your most recent post. So, no, your statement is false.

    Saw the video, John. In fact, I requested the crash data or a summary thereof from the entrepreneurs, as evidence (beyond cool-looking video) that their device provided necessary protection.

    I'm still waiting for a response. Which means either their research is bull****, their results are bull**** or the whole thing is bull****. People who are confident of their research, and not just trying to sell a product, publish their research.

    These people have nothing of value for the cyclist. But, if you want to make-believe in the absence of data, be my guest.
    Skye, check the other four threads on this topic, and I think you'll see Sweden coming up more often. But maybe my memory isn't right either.

    Now, before you call these people names, give them a few days to respond. You are not their priority. Also, remember the time difference. I think you e-mailed them after work hours; it's 10:00 PM in Stockholm right now, according to my iPhone.

    John
    John Ratliff

  14. #4189
    Senior Member skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff View Post
    Now, before you call these people names, give them a few days to respond. You are not their priority. Also, remember the time difference. I think you e-mailed them after work hours; it's 10:00 PM in Stockholm right now, according to my iPhone.

    John
    A few days? I contacted them months ago, John. This product isn't exactly new; the youtube videos have been up 4-5 months, at least.

  15. #4190
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    A few days? I contacted them months ago, John. This product isn't exactly new; the youtube videos have been up 4-5 months, at least.
    Actually, it is pretty new. But you do have reason to gripe. If you get the results, I'd like to see them too, so be sure to post them.

    John
    John Ratliff

  16. #4191
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    Quote Originally Posted by skye View Post
    A few days? I contacted them months ago, John. This product isn't exactly new; the youtube videos have been up 4-5 months, at least.
    Dear Swedish People:

    I am from teh Interweb, and I demands to see ur data.

    Sincerely,

    Skye



    I'm sure they got right on it.
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  17. #4192
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    Disability? No I don't think so... I tend to think outside of the box and have strong viewpoints and say what I think about the subject I'm talking about, but I do try to be courteous/civil even when being contrary, and try to respect others viewpoint's... How-about you? Calling people A-Holes just because they say something that you don't agree with seems like maybe a problem...?
    You seem pretty hung up on the A-hole thing. You should note that I didn't call anybody in particular an A-hole (and your piety is tainted by the fact that you're coming quite a bit closer to calling me names than I am to you.) Now, if you're choosing to self-identify, that's your therapist's problem, not mine.

  18. #4193
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Sure, I can just see it now: some newb bike rider wobbling along on their brand new hybrid, tch-tch-ing and giving you the stank-eye, who don't even know enough to recognize by your riding style, comfort on the bike, and equipment that you have decades of experience, also not realizing that experience counts for much more than a helmet where bike safety is concerned.

    And then they lecture you about helmet use???

    I don't really know you, but I can only imagine your reaction and wish desperately that someone, sometime would get a video of it...

    If I ever hear of a cyclist being assaulted by another cyclist, beating them with a frame pump, you'll come first to mind...
    I'm as big a jerk IRL as I am on the internet, but I've switched to C02. And nobody mistakes me for an "expert" - between my touring bikes, my hairy legs, and my beer gut, I'm as big a Fred as there is.

    I still want to be left alone re. helmet use, though...

  19. #4194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    I still want to be left alone re. helmet use, though...
    Well you are visiting the wrong thread for that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    You seem pretty hung up on the A-hole thing. You should note that I didn't call anybody in particular an A-hole (and your piety is tainted by the fact that you're coming quite a bit closer to calling me names than I am to you.) Now, if you're choosing to self-identify, that's your therapist's problem, not mine.
    No you didn't call me, or anyone else in particular an A-Hole, just everyone that thinks wearing a helmet is a good idea...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  20. #4195
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    No you didn't call me, or anyone else in particular an A-Hole, just everyone that thinks wearing a helmet is a good idea...
    And reading comprehension rears its ugly head again. Seriously, what's up with Canada's public education system?

  21. #4196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    And reading comprehension rears its ugly head again. Seriously, what's up with Canada's public education system?
    Well I guess when-you call someone an A-Hole in American it must mean something different then in Canadian...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  22. #4197
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    The issue is who you think I called an A-hole. I'd invite you to re-read the post but I doubt that would help. Do you have a responsible adult handy?

  23. #4198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    The issue is who you think I called an A-hole. I'd invite you to re-read the post but I doubt that would help. Do you have a responsible adult handy?
    Well, I wonder if anyone/how many would answer me, "if" I made a statement about non-helmet riders and them lecturing me about my helmet views and I called them A-Holes when they keep telling me to wear a helmet in the shower, while walking, going up a ladder, in my car,... I wonder what kind of answers I would receive to a statement like that? Just an example guys...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  24. #4199
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    Well, I wonder if anyone/how many would answer me, "if" I made a statement about non-helmet riders and them lecturing me about my helmet views and I called them A-Holes when they keep telling me to wear a helmet in the shower, while walking, going up a ladder, in my car,... I wonder what kind of answers I would receive to a statement like that? Just an example guys...
    I'm starting to sober up, so am again seeing the pointlessness of corresponding with you. But hey, tomorrow night is less than 24 hours away, so we've got that to look forward to!

  25. #4200
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    Goodnight...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

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