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-   -   The helmet thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/771371-helmet-thread.html)

howsteepisit 12-24-13 07:57 AM

Over the years I have gone on hundreds of rides without eating first, never ever did I get dizzy to the point of passing out or loosing control. are you sure you don't have some underlying medical issue? And I am talking rides up to 50 miles in length. In fact, years ago when I raced, I routinely rode 50 miles before breakfast, sometimes eating an apple enroute, never any issue what so ever. So I agree, if I was you I would never ride without a helmet. You also may want to consider giving up your drivers license in case you don't eat something before driving.

rydabent 12-24-13 11:16 AM

tampa

Sorry to hear of your accident and problems. I hope you fully recover.

Your case is an example of what I have been saying. No one ever knows what is going to happen unexpectedly. As the Boy Scouts say------------be prepared.

Six jours 12-24-13 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16354968)
LOL Yep.... we can't be TOO safe... can we.

Well, I can, because I use protective devices that, to mind, make me as safe as I should be.

The rest of you are obviously not as smart as me, but if you'll just accept my mental superiority and let me tell you exactly what to do, then you too can enjoy appropriate levels of safety.

</helmeteer>

FBinNY 12-24-13 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 16356071)
tampa

Sorry to hear of your accident and problems. I hope you fully recover.

Your case is an example of what I have been saying. No one ever knows what is going to happen unexpectedly. As the Boy Scouts say------------be prepared.

Of course stiff happens. OTOH, large numbers of accidents can be prevented with some common sense. If someone feels dizzy, or disoriented common sense would indicate not riding, rather than riding with a helmet.

Imagine how long this thread would be if all the people who didn't wear a helmet and didn't get hurt posted. Or if all people with head injuries from non-bicycling causes posted. The plain fact is that head injuries from simple falls (not on a bicycle) greatly outnumber those involving bicycle riding. If you just follow statistical data, or the anything can happen, then you'd always wear a helmet walking, but maybe take it off when on the bicycle.

Six jours 12-24-13 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaRaleigh (Post 16355533)
Ok... here's my story... take from it what you will.

I was one of those people who USUALLY wears a helmet, unless I was going out for a leisurely cruise on the MUP. A couple months ago, I had a rough day at work, and decided that I'd go out for one of those cruises to "blow off some steam". Mistake #1 : I didn't wear a helmet. Mistake #2 : I didn't "fuel up" before the ride. About an hour into the ride, I bonked hard. I remember thinking: "I'm getting dizzy, I'd better sit down." After that, it was all black. A witness said that I ran headfirst into a brick wall, and then hit the pavement hard. I had a pretty bad concussion and severe headaches for over 2 weeks. The scariest part is the memory loss. When I went back to work, I saw a friend and coworker that I have known for nearly 10 years. I had no idea what her name was. There have been a few other memories gone as well... mostly other names.

Anyway... I'm now a "helmet always" supporter.

You lose consciousness if you go for an hour without food, so I need to wear a helmet?

TampaRaleigh 12-24-13 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 16356088)
You lose consciousness if you go for an hour without food, so I need to wear a helmet?

I didn't say either of those things.

#1 : I went 12 hours without food.
#2 : I wouldn't tell you that you need to wear a helmet... especially since it doesn't seem like you have much to worry about up there.

Six jours 12-25-13 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaRaleigh (Post 16356152)
I didn't say either of those things.

#1 : I went 12 hours without food.
#2 : I wouldn't tell you that you need to wear a helmet... especially since it doesn't seem like you have much to worry about up there.

#1 - That is a food problem, not a helmet problem. It is akin to claiming that helmets should be used for cycling because you drank half a bottle of Jack and then landed on your head.

#2 - Except you pretty much did: "I'm now a 'helmet always' supporter". As for the rest, I may not be the brightest bulb on the internet, but I'm still ahead of folks who starve themselves into unconsciousness and then run into brick walls.

prathmann 12-25-13 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaRaleigh (Post 16355533)
About an hour into the ride, I bonked hard. I remember thinking: "I'm getting dizzy, I'd better sit down." After that, it was all black.

Bonking is fairly common. Blacking out as a result of it is not and should be checked out to determine a cause.

loimpact 12-25-13 11:56 AM

Just a feeler for any info if it's available.........

Christmas morning (I'm a newb transitioning from running to cycling) and wife got me a helmet cuz I didn't have one. (Yes, I'm a helmet advocate. I've seen brain damage WITH helmets first-hand, I don't wanna see brain damage without one).

Anyway, it's a Bell "Torque / Speed Seeker". Looks the part, fits fine, has the spin adjuster on the back, etc. I'm fine with it (I'm guessing it was cheap) but I can't find ANY info on this thing. Just try & Google "Bell Torque" and you'll find nothing. Try "Bell Torque Speed Seeker" and nothing. Even the bar code nets nothing. Not even the FRIGGIN BAR CODE???
Anyway, it's weird but wondered if anybody knew. It's a 2013 model from Walmart but even Walmart doesn't show it.

howsteepisit 12-25-13 12:31 PM

IN some product lines Walmart gets special items, so that they don't have to price match. For example, I recently bought a Keurig K70 coffee machine there, nobody else has a 70, they all have K75s. They are the same, and the price is the same too. But when the K75s go on sale, Walmart does not have to price match per policy because its not the same part number as the model they sell. Same is done with TV sets. Would not surprise me that bicycle helmets too.

3alarmer 12-25-13 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 16356078)

The rest of you are obviously not as smart as me, but if you'll just accept my mental superiority ....

.......the phrase "as smart as me" can be interpreted in several ways, only one of which connotes your superiority. Just sayin'.

The swell helment I got you for Christmas is in the mail, held up, no doubt, by the last minute surge at the Post Office.

elcruxio 12-25-13 04:23 PM

So yeah, passing out whilst riding is not normal. I have been very close but I've yet to actually pass out or even go weird in the head (blood glucose 1.8mmol/L)

But then again I usually stop and measure/eat everytime I feel strange or I feel I start riding in a vacuum fairyland (if low blood sugar didn't have the unsatiable hunger or the jitters it would be the best drug ever)

ZmanKC 12-27-13 10:52 AM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356736

350htrr 12-28-13 02:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356962 :innocent:

rydabent 12-28-13 06:49 PM

zman

BTW the one on the right was road kill. I saw him in Sept.

SmallFront 12-28-13 08:10 PM

I haven't read this thread from the start, but I read 20 pages of it, beginning at page 240.

I am surprised how much a parallel this is to the long-gone debate of seat belts and helmets for motorcycles. It's the same arguments the anti-helmet people use as people back in the day used to argue against seat belts and motorcycle helmets. Some people will have to be dragged into the present. I especially like how they drag some obscure studies to the front, and with a bit of selective reading and quoting, they think they have made a watertight argument. It's exactly the same as not only the seatbelt and MC helmet discussion, but to an extent also with, say, ABS brakes (I can brake myself, thank you very much), airbags (I don't need no stinking air bags) and basically any safety feature mandated by law. If it takes mandatory legislation to make people safer, so be it. Hell, around here we are only allowed to use a cell phone handsfree if we are in a car, on a motorcycle, or on a bike.

Same thing with lights on your bike: Yes, if you get run over by a truck, you are the one getting hurt the most, yet everywhere in the western world, there is legislation to have lights on your bike after dark.

That said, yes, I'm a hypocrite: I don't always wear a helmet, mostly because the one I have is old and really not nice to wear anymore. I am aware I need to get another one, and if mandated, I would likely just go out and buy a nice new one that isn't as tatty. I will, soon, though.

My kid always wears a helmet. No exception.


Edit: It's not mandated around my parts, but I think it would actually be a good idea. Kids nowadays usually always wear a helmet. It's the old buggers like me and people older than me that are resisting it for a variety of reasons.

rydabent 12-29-13 08:02 AM

smallfront

You put forth excellent points.

I still remain against a helmet law. Actually that goes for all gov legislation. "Safety" devices on cars, boats, bicycles etc should be optional. Let the user pick what they want.

SmallFront 12-29-13 08:31 AM

Well, at least you are consistent. I'm somewhere in the middle: There is benefits to mandating something by law. Take workplace safety for instance. It is to protect the workers - sometimes even from themselves. I think the same holds true for the population at large. Of course, not all safety measures are reasonable for everyday usage, but some are very reasonable for slightly various reasons: Seatbelts in cars, blind spot mirrors on lorries, beeping when a lorry backs up, MC helmets, bike helmets, lights on bikes, reflectors of some kind on all vehicles, and so on.

There are just some of us who really needs to be fined if we don't act responsibly. Handsfree cell phone talking is a compromise in my opinion. Even if handsfree, most would do better to not talk at all - especially in city traffic. I don't trust the vast majority to do what is best for everyone. It's simply not how the real world is, and that includes not talking constantly on the phone, being able to brake (almost) as well as ABS braking, to have lights on their vehicles, or even use the indicator when making a turn. One could argue that the indicator is not a safety device, but if used as they are supposed to, they are making you predictable.


Which reminds me: I have read on here that some people are miffed that people don't know that a 90 degree angled left arm means you are turning right. That really is stupid. Use your right hand to indicate a right hand turn, and your left arm to indicate a left hand turn. Around these parts (all of Europe) raising your arm at a 90 degree angle means you are stopping.

The notion that an angled left arm would mean a right turn is something that was used when cars didn't have indicators and the drivers right arm couldn't be seen from the outside regardless of how long it was.

I'm all for courses from an early age, since those guys are actually dangerous, indicating one thing, while actually doing something else.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Sorry for the length of this.

GlassKnees 12-29-13 07:50 PM

I won't try to convince anyone one way or the other - just simply elate some of my experiences:

When helmets first came out I wore them - I had the old Gyro foam helmet, and an old Belkin "Bucket", that I wore when I did my first double century in Davis, Ca. Years later, after moving to Arizona, I decided to sacrifice safety for comfort - I sweat like a horse and I hated to have seat pouring down my face while wearing a helmet. Besides, when I crashed I always managed to prevent hitting my head.

Then one day, I wore a Gyro foam helmet while screaming down South Mountain from the TV towers; I lost control in a turn and crashed - I hit my head so hard on the pavement that I saw stars! My helmet was split but I suffered no head injury. I changed my habit. For awhile.

Fast forward a few years and I'm commuting to/from work at Boeing in Mesa to my home in Fountain Hills. A teenage girl driving a car pulls out in front of me and we collide, trashing my front wheel and bending my fork. No helmet. But no injury. Lucky. My wife insists on my wearing a helmet - no excuses, no exceptions - Period.

I am now 62 years old. I still ride, still wear helmet. But my main ride is a recumbent trike. Do recumbent drivers need a helmet? One can argue pro and con. For me, I wear one. I have a Gyro Air Attack because I like the visor. When you ride a trike in the morning you tend to fin yourself looking into the sun. I like the aero characteristics, not to mention the "jet pilot" look. And it serves as a mount for a video cam, which I like to use on some rides.

So there it is - I have no regrets and a helmet has saved me a couple of times. Just one save is worth the cost of all the helmets I've purchased.

digitalmouse 12-30-13 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16352293)
My wife and I just spent the weekend entertaining 5 of the grandkids.... and I think I learned a couple things that might resolve this whole issue...

Did April 1st sneak up on me and I didn't notice? :D

Dave Cutter 12-30-13 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmouse (Post 16367226)
Did April 1st sneak up on me and I didn't notice? :D

Life is a dangerous place! If I didn't use humor.... my post would have read like this:

There was a time.... years ago... when most people tried to find the rational middle ground. Now [it seems] any subject whatsoever draws opposing groups. One group for... another against. Each group seeks only to impose their own will on the other. As a people we've lost all sense of compromise and even for many.... our sense of humor. Next we surrender our ability for forgive.... and understanding of mercy.

As the one group who seeks to impose rule of law to regulate the other reaches a majority (and it will).... politicians eager to expand their control will oblige.

Eventually the "regulation advocacy groups" will get their way. Bicycle ownership will mean surrender to government approved training, licensing, insurance, fee's and permits. I've become convinced that those who wish to regulate away the inherent danger of living [and cycling] will crush the use of bicycles for anything other than racing.

But will a highly regulated world be worth it? How could sleeping in a helmet be a bad thing?

rydabent 12-30-13 07:56 AM

Actually contrary to some here, I really am in the middle. I am NOT for helmet laws. OTOH I think is is just plain dumb not to wear a helmet. Any injury how small prevented is a good thing. Besides as I have pointed out many times once a helmet is put on, it is pretty much forgotten about.

howsteepisit 12-30-13 11:02 AM

By your logic of any injury prevented is a good thing, you should be wearing body amour, knee and elbow pads, some kind of facial protection and of course the full MIPS helmet. These all can prevent some kind of injury. Of course, sitting on your couch can prevent some injuries too. Claiming any injury prevention is good, is plain silliness since the relative risk is not considered in such an absolute statement. You can clain that wrapping yourself in bubble wrap all day is good because it prevents some injuries, but it would be silly. Me, I don't really care about helmet use one way or another, its up to you and each user as far as I am concerned, but you endless claims of "any injury pervention is a good thing without consideration of the cost and benefit of that prevention is simple and shallow.

Last response to Rydabent for me, I am tired of the mantra.

MMACH 5 12-30-13 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 16367381)
Actually contrary to some here, I really am in the middle. I am NOT for helmet laws. OTOH I think is is just plain dumb not to wear a helmet. Any injury how small prevented is a good thing.
...

Are you saying that because I wear helmet on my bicycle AND oppose helmet laws, that I am "in the middle?"
Who is on either side?

Are the sides "pro-helmet law" vs "anti-helmet law?"
There is the absolute tiniest fraction of people posting in this thread who do not oppose helmet laws (I can think of two–and one of those was certainly playing devil's advocate–not actually advocating legislation). In fact, nearly every Helmeteer, here has spoken out against MHLs.

Are the sides "helmets are good" vs "helmets are bad?"
Again, it is a tiny fraction of people posting in this thread saying that helmets are bad (more than two, but still a very small portion).

Are the sides "helmets are necessary" vs "helmets are unnecessary?" You can balance, steer and pedal a bike without a helmet, so there's not much of a debate there. And the arguments "I'll never hit my head" and "Someday, I'm gonna hit my head" are fairly pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 16367381)
...
I think is is just plain dumb not to wear a helmet.
...

I think it's none of my business and I ride with several folks who choose not to wear a helmet.

Aside from "don't make it a law," the most common argument made by the Bare Head Brigade is "don't tell me I SHOULD wear a helmet." Their frustration, understandably comes from folks in the real, non-internet world (cyclists and non-cyclists) asking "where is your helmet?" or telling them to get one. No one likes to be judged or considered below someone else, but that is exactly what people are showing toward bare-headed cyclists, in this regard. To his or her face, no less.
I wish I could argue that we Helmeteers are just sharing our experiences with helmets and not judging the choices others make with their own bodies. Unfortunately, you are one of the most vociferous Helmeteers in the thread and you are clearly judging people who don't agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 16367381)
...
Besides as I have pointed out many times once a helmet is put on, it is pretty much forgotten about.

By you.
As has been pointed out many times, this is your opinion. It is subjective. Not a fact or anything that can be shown as a true or false statement.

rydabent, I put a helmet on my head every time I ride a bicycle. So, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. Your passion for helmet use is admirable. However, you tend to get too emotional and condescending to make an effective argument.

SmallFront 12-30-13 11:43 AM

After my posts the other day, I figured it was time for a new helmet. And today I bought one after trying around thirty helmets - most of which was really, really wide. In any case, I can now ride with a helmet without feeling filthy afterwards as with the old helmet (I therefore didn't wear as often as I ought to).


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