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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-14, 09:13 PM   #6751
Six jours
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Thank you for confirming my hypothesis... You zeroed onto the 0.5% and concluded, that the chance of needing a helmet is low enough to not wear one. I zeroed in on the 500 people who certainly could have used a helmet, thus deciding that I should wear a helmet as a last resort/line of defence.... That, I suspect is the major difference between people who decide not to wear helmets and people who decide to wear a helmet... JMO
And you utterly ignored the whole point of my post. Welcome to the helmet thread, I guess.
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Old 01-18-14, 09:29 PM   #6752
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And you utterly ignored the whole point of my post. Welcome to the helmet thread, I guess.
True, just like you did mine...
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Old 01-18-14, 09:55 PM   #6753
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I addressed your point directly, explicitly, and repeatedly, in plain English. I simply cannot imagine what they are teaching in Canadian schools at this point.
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Old 01-19-14, 12:31 AM   #6754
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Jeez, I haven't been here long at all, but this topic has been discussed ad nauseum! Playing devil's advocate here--why is it so important to argue about this over and over again? No one is changing anyone's mind. No one is really introducing anything new. There are much more effective ways to stand for a cause, and internet forums have to be the most ineffective way.

Why not just wear them or not wear them and be done with it?
This was post #2 , way back on page 1, way back in 2011.
Hindsight being 20/20, I'd like to officially declare shawmutt the Thread Winner!
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Old 01-19-14, 11:52 AM   #6755
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"Why not just wear them or not wear them and be done with it" is the ultimate goal of the "anti-helmet" cadre. The tough part is getting the "You're an idiot and deserve to die if you don't wear one!!!" crowd to go along with it.
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Old 01-19-14, 11:58 AM   #6756
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Or the you should be paraded in front of assemblies when you are disabled due to head injuries crowd.
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Old 01-19-14, 01:47 PM   #6757
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Or the you should be paraded in front of assemblies when you are disabled due to head injuries crowd.
...every public issue needs poster children.
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Old 01-19-14, 01:54 PM   #6758
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Why are bicycle helmets a public issue? I see them as personal choice.
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Old 01-20-14, 05:33 PM   #6759
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This thread should just be deleted. Nobody is changing anybody's mind. People will make the decision for themselves. And the fact that someone will still disagree with this is further proof of the futility of this discussion.
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Old 01-20-14, 06:06 PM   #6760
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This thread should just be deleted. Nobody is changing anybody's mind. People will make the decision for themselves. And the fact that someone will still disagree with this is further proof of the futility of this discussion.
...with regard to the Famous and Awesome BF Helment Threadtm, this is known as "unclear on the concept."
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Old 01-20-14, 08:56 PM   #6761
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Abortion isn't an especially good comparison because it arguably involves the rights of an innocent third party.

There are parallels, of course. For example, both abortion and bicycle helmets seem to attract shrill and unreasoned arguments from nutcases on both sides.

I do note that the helmet debate is starting to look kind of like the global warming debate, in that one side claims to have all the science on their side and wants to shut down the discussion entirely.
http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm I wonder how many innocent 3rd party people were effected with these statistics? 1994 to 2010 11,186 people died not wearing helmets and 786 people died while wearing helmets... We have the bare numbers of how many died but how many did that effect other than the people who died I wonder...

Last edited by 350htrr; 01-21-14 at 10:01 AM. Reason: corect numbers
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Old 01-21-14, 08:02 AM   #6762
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This thread should just be deleted. Nobody is changing anybody's mind. People will make the decision for themselves. And the fact that someone will still disagree with this is further proof of the futility of this discussion.
Wut?!?

No, this thread is awesome, a perfect example of why we can't all just get along. As below, so above; microcosm of the greater political macrocosm.

Can't even get people to agree on bicycle helmet use, what chance do we have for peace in the middle east, sane healthcare in the USA, and temperate rule by sane people? None.
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Old 01-21-14, 11:32 AM   #6763
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I did some clean up. Discussing abortion is strictly off-limits, even in the P&R forum, and especially when trying to compare here it to wearing or not wearing a helmet.

This thread will not get deleted because a new one will just get started again to take its place. This is about the fifth or sixth version of this thread, the others were closed because they got too big to load. So the topic is not going away. And trying to derail the thread in an effort to get it closed is not going to work, either.

If you are tired of the endless circle of arguments about the pros and cons of helmet wear, feel free to just ignore the thread and not post in it anymore.

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Old 01-21-14, 04:19 PM   #6764
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...I am genuinely apologetic, CCRider. I forgot the level of crazy in here in referencing my example.

While I know it is not obvious, I am not here to make your life more complicated. Sorry for the extra work.
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Old 01-21-14, 04:21 PM   #6765
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Why are bicycle helmets a public issue? I see them as personal choice.
....all personal choices have public consequences. Unless you live alone on an island somewhere ?
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Old 01-21-14, 04:36 PM   #6766
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....all personal choices have public consequences. Unless you live alone on an island somewhere ?
True, and the operative word here is ALL. So it isn't a debate whether private decisions have public consequences, but the extent to which we wissh to use the public consequences argument as an excuse to intrude on the private sphere.

In short, how and where do we draw the line?
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Old 01-21-14, 06:27 PM   #6767
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..of course it is. In the USofA, it's pretty well established legal principle that
laws restricting personal freedoms are to be judged by whether the government
has a compelling interest in doing so.

I don't think anyone can make a viable argument that that is the case for bicycle
helment use..............yet. But if and as ridership increases, and statistics continue
to accumulate, there might certainly come a time when that case will be argued.


In the places we all envy in Europe where ridership is much more significant, it would
appear that they have not felt the need for mandatory helment laws thus far.
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Old 01-21-14, 09:30 PM   #6768
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http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm I wonder how many innocent 3rd party people were effected with these statistics? 1994 to 2010 11,186 people died not wearing helmets and 786 people died while wearing helmets... We have the bare numbers of how many died but how many did that effect other than the people who died I wonder...
Because "affected" (never mind "effected") is exactly the same as "dismembered", right?

Seriously, WTF is up with Canadians?

Last edited by Six jours; 01-21-14 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 01-21-14, 10:18 PM   #6769
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I honestly do not see what the big deal is here...



http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/na.../20/235205.htm
...this is the current status of various states in terms of mandatory helment laws. ^^^^

Note that there are exactly none of them which require helments for adults over the age of 17 riding bikes.

So it would appear that the state legislatures are in agreement with me that the government has no
compelling need to mandate the use of helments for adults, I think. Why are the no-helment guys
so incredibly vociferous here in their insistence that every helment wearing advocate is out to pass
a law that will put hats on their heads ? I don't see that happening, am I missing something ?

If you live and ride in a municipality like Seattle or Vancouver that has a mandatory helment law,
my own opinion is that you ought to gather a constituency and file a class action suit that challenges
that law. It will do considerably more to affect the real world than grousing about it here.
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Old 01-21-14, 11:51 PM   #6770
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..of course it is. In the USofA, it's pretty well established legal principle that
laws restricting personal freedoms are to be judged by whether the government
has a compelling interest in doing so.

I don't think anyone can make a viable argument that that is the case for bicycle
helment use..............yet. But if and as ridership increases, and statistics continue
to accumulate, there might certainly come a time when that case will be argued.


In the places we all envy in Europe where ridership is much more significant, it would
appear that they have not felt the need for mandatory helment laws thus far.
Generally no. However that rather depends.
For example at least some (can be just Berlin) states in Germany have a suggestionary law (as does Finland) which suggests that cyclists should wear a helmet. There is no punishment for not wearing a helmet.
However the German Supreme Court has decided that a cyclist who was not wearing a helmet was at least in part responsible for the damage received in the accident due to not wearing proper protection. (victim blaming anyone?)

Might seem understandable and it genuinely might that the law somehow dictates responsibility issues or they are mentioned in the prior documents (we civil law countries give great weight for the intent of the decreer)
Then again the Finnish law luckily quite clearly states that it is very much a recommendation and the intent of the decreer states that no responsibility issues are to come of said law.
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Old 01-22-14, 07:59 AM   #6771
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Maybe the anti helmet gang should take a page out of Thumper's mothers book. If you cant say anything good about helmets, dont say anything at all.
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Old 01-22-14, 09:23 AM   #6772
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Maybe the anti helmet gang should take a page out of Thumper's mothers book. If you cant say anything good about helmets, dont say anything at all.
Do you realize what you said there? Really?

So in your opinion all who disagree should be silenced? That's pretty... communist of you :/
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Old 01-22-14, 10:25 AM   #6773
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YOU are so wrong about me. I am at the opposite end of the political spectrum.
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Old 01-22-14, 12:12 PM   #6774
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Maybe the anti helmet gang should take a page out of Thumper's mothers book. If you cant say anything good about helmets, dont say anything at all.
well that story was an anti hunting radical story with man being portrayed as evil while the animals were given enduring human traits that man is not portrayed to have? a weird story that I can take nothing from nor is worthwhile quoting from.
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Old 01-22-14, 12:18 PM   #6775
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Maybe the anti helmet gang should take a page out of Thumper's mothers book. If you cant say anything good about helmets, dont say anything at all.
You're absolutely right. So let me ask. Has anyone ever ridden up to you and yelled at you to remove you helmet?

As far as I know, there as no such thing as an anti helmet gang, only people who don't feel they want to wear one, or feel that the benefits of helmets are over rated.

Maybe, the Pro helmet crowd (those who chose to wear helmets) should take your advice and stop telling others that they're suicidal fools for not wearing a helmet..
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