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View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?

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  • I've never worn a bike helmet

    178 10.66%
  • I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped

    94 5.63%
  • I've always worn a helmet

    648 38.80%
  • I didn't wear a helmet, but now do

    408 24.43%
  • I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions

    342 20.48%
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  1. #6851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    That's about the quality of response I expected. C'est la vie.

    BTW, there are a number of ways to call people names - and you've figured most of them out. So your complaints about "ad hominem" are disingenuous at best, and everyone here knows it.
    You really need to back this crap up. If you use ad-homimens, it's hypocritical to complain about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    I'm still wondering about your sudden change from semi-reasonable poster to whiny little girl. If I had your email addy I'd send you a note about your account being hijacked.

  2. #6852
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    That's a question I can answer.
    .
    Apparently it isn't.

    here's the sentence I asked about
    I suspect that a few more (at least) have shifted from the "organ donor " stuff. (bold is in the original).

    So I asked if you were referring to folks who called people organ donors, or people upset about being called organ donors and complaining about it here.

    All you did was post more boldface type, saying it shouldn't have been that hard to figure out what you meant, but never actually answered.
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  3. #6853
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    You really need to back this crap up. If you use ad-homimens, it's hypocritical to complain about it.
    It's like you are posting from some other dimension. Your responses don't have much of anything to do with what you are responding to. I mean, there's plenty of vehemence and bile, but it seems directed toward someone or something that is not actually present.
    Last edited by Six jours; 01-27-14 at 11:13 PM.

  4. #6854
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    It's like you are posting from some other dimension. I mean, there's plenty of vehemence and bile, but it seems directed toward someone or something that is not actually present.
    ...well, apparently in order to properly understand the vast, worldwide conspiracy that will
    eventually result in us all wearing helments not only on bicycles, but also in cars, in the shower,
    and without much doubt, while engaging in sexual intercourse, one needs to be dimensionally
    adaptable, as well as fluent in mathematics based on speculative hypotheses.

    Quote Originally Posted by fugue137 View Post

    Also, what about all that stuff in the fourth dimension? Look at the time progression of these laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by fugue137 View Post
    See, e.g., http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1249.html

    How are helmet laws changing over time? "Here's a snapshot of a part of a system, and it proves that nothing's happening" is wrong. You want a time-derivative in order to make a claim like that.
    Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  5. #6855
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Apparently it isn't.

    here's the sentence I asked about
    I suspect that a few more (at least) have shifted from the "organ donor " stuff. (bold is in the original).

    So I asked if you were referring to folks who called people organ donors, or people upset about being called organ donors and complaining about it here.

    All you did was post more boldface type, saying it shouldn't have been that hard to figure out what you meant, but never actually answered.
    Why do you think I underlined it? It should have been easy to figure out what I meant!

    Do you really think there is any probability that "anti helmet" people upset at being called "organ donors" could shift to not caring about it? I think it should be clear to everybody that that would be very unlikely.

    There have been a few people with fairly extreme "pro helmet" views who have indicated here than their views have shifted to being more moderate (to not yelling or calling people names).

    I was talking about people shifting their opinion. That you think that I could have been referring to people whose position would not change is "interesting".


    You either don't have any idea what I meant or you do and you want something else.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-28-14 at 08:16 AM.

  6. #6856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    It's like you are posting from some other dimension. Your responses don't have much of anything to do with what you are responding to. I mean, there's plenty of vehemence and bile, but it seems directed toward someone or something that is not actually present.
    This isn't an argument.

    For someone who calls people "little girls" when they can't argue, you are quite sensitive. This is a bad place for sensitive people. Try to get back onto the topic.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-28-14 at 07:13 AM.

  7. #6857
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    How about this. A very large percentage of people agree that young people should wear helmets. If that is the case, why does it not follow that helmets should be worn by older people?

  8. #6858
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    How about this. A very large percentage of people agree that young people should wear helmets. If that is the case, why does it not follow that helmets should be worn by older people?
    Try to think of some reasons for that difference. Note that you don't have to agree. The idea is to see whether you have any ability to consider the other side of an argument.

    Why isn't it OK for children to drink?

  9. #6859
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post

    Why isn't it OK for children to drink?
    ...because they will be forever stealing your good booze ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  10. #6860
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
    ...because they will be forever stealing your good booze ?
    They are stealing it anyway.

  11. #6861
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    You really need to back this crap up. If you use ad-homimens, it's hypocritical to complain about it.
    But falsely casting aspersions on someone else's obviously superior reading comprehension skillz and then complaining about ad-hominems is A-OK, huh?
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  12. #6862
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
    I cannot find the linked studies which predict the
    decrease in bicycle ridership due to mandatory helment laws, even though i'm certain they
    must be there.
    There's an overview of some (probably most, given the people who run the page) of the research here:

    http://cyclehelmets.org/1020.html

    I'm very curious as to the quality of studies that can predict a long term ridership decrease
    because of helments. It seems like it would be hard to quantify and difficult to assess.
    I agree. But some good people have made various reasonable attempts at estimating it (as described in the primary research linked from the above), and apparently a pattern really does emerge.

    The linked page doesn't discuss how bike helmet laws kill bike-share programs, but I've seen various reports on that as well. The Google will help you, but here's a couple:

    http://momentummag.com/features/bike...d-helmet-laws/
    http://grist.org/cities/bike-sharing...elmet-problem/

    Cheers!

  13. #6863
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fugue137 View Post
    There's an overview of some (probably most, given the people who run the page) of the research here:

    http://cyclehelmets.org/1020.html



    I agree. But some good people have made various reasonable attempts at estimating it (as described in the primary research linked from the above), and apparently a pattern really does emerge.

    The linked page doesn't discuss how bike helmet laws kill bike-share programs, but I've seen various reports on that as well. The Google will help you, but here's a couple:

    http://momentummag.com/features/bike...d-helmet-laws/
    http://grist.org/cities/bike-sharing...elmet-problem/

    Cheers!
    ...at a glance, those estimated percentages are astonishing to me.

    I'll really need to look at some of the referenced studies, because, generally, when
    numbers that are so supportive of a particular position get quoted, there is usually
    a reason. it often shows up in methodology or statistical manipulation.

    But thanks for the link....did I miss it in the other reference ?

    Not personally a big fan of bike share programs as I've seen them here. Large amounts
    of money seem to get used with less than maximal benefit due to theft, abuse, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  14. #6864
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    This isn't an argument.

    For someone who calls people "little girls" when they can't argue, you are quite sensitive. This is a bad place for sensitive people. Try to get back onto the topic.
    As a response to "Your responses don't have much of anything to do with what you are responding to", this pretty much proves my point.

  15. #6865
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.

  16. #6866
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
    Gen pop also thought pet rocks were a great idea. Doesn't mean it made them any safer.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  17. #6867
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
    You keep saying anti helmet to describe those who simply don't feel they're necessary. The number of anti helmet people is so miniscule as to be meaningless.

    So folks like myself don't care one iota whether helmet use is up or down.

    OTOH, increased helmet use may not reflect a general consensus as much as the effects of the regular and pounding lectures that helmets are required. So you may be happy that the pounding is working, but to me it simply means that more folks are becoming convince that bicycling is dangerous, which I don't think is such good news.
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  18. #6868
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    He's trolling. Every time the helmet discussion goes quiet for a few days, rydabent drops in another one of these.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
    The 4 Rs to save the planet

    "Toes"

  19. #6869
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    howsteep

    Trolling is always brought up by people that have nothing to add, and by those that just like to attack other people they dont agree with.

    Most logical people agree that a helmet may prevent injury in a low speed accident. What is wrong with preventing injury?

  20. #6870
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    howsteep

    Trolling is always brought up by people that have nothing to add, and by those that just like to attack other people they dont agree with.

    Most logical people agree that a helmet may prevent injury in a low speed accident. What is wrong with preventing injury?
    We've been here a number of times. There's nothing wrong with preventing injury. But it's not a black and white question. If it were, we'd wear helmets full time, especially older people who account for the majority of all head injuries simply by falling.

    It's a question of likelihood of injury vs. the effort at prevention. For some of us, the risk of head injury on a bicycle doesn't warrant a helmet. Those who disagree are free to wear one if they choose.

    OTOH- if we're really concerned about preventing injury there are countless things we might do that are more likely to help than wearing a helmet on a bicycle. We could start by simply not riding such dangerous vehicles in traffic, we could change our diet, we could move to ranch houses to eliminate those dangerous staircases, etc.

    So PLEASE stop saying "what's wrong with preventing injury?" because it's a meaningless question only a child would ask.
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  21. #6871
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    howsteep

    Trolling is always brought up by people that have nothing to add, and by those that just like to attack other people they dont agree with.

    Most logical people agree that a helmet may prevent injury in a low speed accident. What is wrong with preventing injury?
    How many of those people contributing to surveys claiming helmet use is up are wearing helmets because they "may prevent injury in a low speed accident"? Vs. those wearing helmets because they have become a cycling fashion accessory (ref., Nutcase--great colors and designs, not so good at protection)? Vs. those who wear helmets "because you never know when you'll get hit by a car!!!"?
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  22. #6872
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
    Where in this is anything about preventing injures of any type. Fact is that traffic on this forum slowed down so you thought you would stir the pot and get things going - in my book that's trolling.


    Carry on, I really don't care, enough to engage.
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  23. #6873
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    ...as long as this is going on, someone ought to make some money from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  24. #6874
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    With all the phony research and polls the anti helmet crowd blathers about, and their idea they are such safe and wonderful bike handlers they cant disprove one thing. Schidt happens!!!!!!! There will alway be that unexpected patch of gravel, that glass shard, and the car out of no where that will put them on the ground.

    Who here would rather be thrown to the ground without a helmet?

  25. #6875
    Senior Member elcruxio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    With all the phony research and polls the anti helmet crowd blathers about, and their idea they are such safe and wonderful bike handlers they cant disprove one thing. Schidt happens!!!!!!! There will alway be that unexpected patch of gravel, that glass shard, and the car out of no where that will put them on the ground.

    Who here would rather be thrown to the ground without a helmet?
    two points.

    first, you could point out a few of these anti helmet types since I have absolutely no idea who you are talking about. Seems like your own invention.

    and second. A glass shard? There's a reason I use tubeless mate. And don't you ride a trike? So a shard wont bother you much either.

    as to cars out of nowhere. Where I live cars are not magical as in, they do not just appear. They always come from somewhere. From a side street, or from behind you, etc. etc. I have not been surprised by a sudden car in... forever.

    unpredictable drivers are a problem but one can prepare for even them. It really is that simple. If the infra is in good order. As to getting rear ended in the highway. The helmet's not going to help there.

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