Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-28-14, 12:03 AM   #6851
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
That's about the quality of response I expected. C'est la vie.

BTW, there are a number of ways to call people names - and you've figured most of them out. So your complaints about "ad hominem" are disingenuous at best, and everyone here knows it.
You really need to back this crap up. If you use ad-homimens, it's hypocritical to complain about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
I'm still wondering about your sudden change from semi-reasonable poster to whiny little girl. If I had your email addy I'd send you a note about your account being hijacked.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 12:06 AM   #6852
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
That's a question I can answer.
.
Apparently it isn't.

here's the sentence I asked about
I suspect that a few more (at least) have shifted from the "organ donor " stuff. (bold is in the original).

So I asked if you were referring to folks who called people organ donors, or people upset about being called organ donors and complaining about it here.

All you did was post more boldface type, saying it shouldn't have been that hard to figure out what you meant, but never actually answered.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 01-28-14, 12:09 AM   #6853
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You really need to back this crap up. If you use ad-homimens, it's hypocritical to complain about it.
It's like you are posting from some other dimension. Your responses don't have much of anything to do with what you are responding to. I mean, there's plenty of vehemence and bile, but it seems directed toward someone or something that is not actually present.

Last edited by Six jours; 01-28-14 at 12:13 AM.
Six jours is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 01:53 AM   #6854
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 13,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
It's like you are posting from some other dimension. I mean, there's plenty of vehemence and bile, but it seems directed toward someone or something that is not actually present.
...well, apparently in order to properly understand the vast, worldwide conspiracy that will
eventually result in us all wearing helments not only on bicycles, but also in cars, in the shower,
and without much doubt, while engaging in sexual intercourse, one needs to be dimensionally
adaptable, as well as fluent in mathematics based on speculative hypotheses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fugue137 View Post

Also, what about all that stuff in the fourth dimension? Look at the time progression of these laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugue137 View Post
See, e.g., http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1249.html

How are helmet laws changing over time? "Here's a snapshot of a part of a system, and it proves that nothing's happening" is wrong. You want a time-derivative in order to make a claim like that.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I guess.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 07:30 AM   #6855
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Apparently it isn't.

here's the sentence I asked about
I suspect that a few more (at least) have shifted from the "organ donor " stuff. (bold is in the original).

So I asked if you were referring to folks who called people organ donors, or people upset about being called organ donors and complaining about it here.

All you did was post more boldface type, saying it shouldn't have been that hard to figure out what you meant, but never actually answered.
Why do you think I underlined it? It should have been easy to figure out what I meant!

Do you really think there is any probability that "anti helmet" people upset at being called "organ donors" could shift to not caring about it? I think it should be clear to everybody that that would be very unlikely.

There have been a few people with fairly extreme "pro helmet" views who have indicated here than their views have shifted to being more moderate (to not yelling or calling people names).

I was talking about people shifting their opinion. That you think that I could have been referring to people whose position would not change is "interesting".


You either don't have any idea what I meant or you do and you want something else.

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-28-14 at 09:16 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 07:34 AM   #6856
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
It's like you are posting from some other dimension. Your responses don't have much of anything to do with what you are responding to. I mean, there's plenty of vehemence and bile, but it seems directed toward someone or something that is not actually present.
This isn't an argument.

For someone who calls people "little girls" when they can't argue, you are quite sensitive. This is a bad place for sensitive people. Try to get back onto the topic.

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-28-14 at 08:13 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 07:57 AM   #6857
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,528
How about this. A very large percentage of people agree that young people should wear helmets. If that is the case, why does it not follow that helmets should be worn by older people?
rydabent is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 09:20 AM   #6858
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
How about this. A very large percentage of people agree that young people should wear helmets. If that is the case, why does it not follow that helmets should be worn by older people?
Try to think of some reasons for that difference. Note that you don't have to agree. The idea is to see whether you have any ability to consider the other side of an argument.

Why isn't it OK for children to drink?
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 01:53 PM   #6859
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 13,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post

Why isn't it OK for children to drink?
...because they will be forever stealing your good booze ?
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 02:16 PM   #6860
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...because they will be forever stealing your good booze ?
They are stealing it anyway.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 06:16 PM   #6861
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You really need to back this crap up. If you use ad-homimens, it's hypocritical to complain about it.
But falsely casting aspersions on someone else's obviously superior reading comprehension skillz and then complaining about ad-hominems is A-OK, huh?
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 10:15 PM   #6862
fugue137
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes: Reynolds Wishbone
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
I cannot find the linked studies which predict the
decrease in bicycle ridership due to mandatory helment laws, even though i'm certain they
must be there.
There's an overview of some (probably most, given the people who run the page) of the research here:

http://cyclehelmets.org/1020.html

Quote:
I'm very curious as to the quality of studies that can predict a long term ridership decrease
because of helments. It seems like it would be hard to quantify and difficult to assess.
I agree. But some good people have made various reasonable attempts at estimating it (as described in the primary research linked from the above), and apparently a pattern really does emerge.

The linked page doesn't discuss how bike helmet laws kill bike-share programs, but I've seen various reports on that as well. The Google will help you, but here's a couple:

http://momentummag.com/features/bike...d-helmet-laws/
http://grist.org/cities/bike-sharing...elmet-problem/

Cheers!
fugue137 is offline  
Old 01-28-14, 10:24 PM   #6863
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 13,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugue137 View Post
There's an overview of some (probably most, given the people who run the page) of the research here:

http://cyclehelmets.org/1020.html



I agree. But some good people have made various reasonable attempts at estimating it (as described in the primary research linked from the above), and apparently a pattern really does emerge.

The linked page doesn't discuss how bike helmet laws kill bike-share programs, but I've seen various reports on that as well. The Google will help you, but here's a couple:

http://momentummag.com/features/bike...d-helmet-laws/
http://grist.org/cities/bike-sharing...elmet-problem/

Cheers!
...at a glance, those estimated percentages are astonishing to me.

I'll really need to look at some of the referenced studies, because, generally, when
numbers that are so supportive of a particular position get quoted, there is usually
a reason. it often shows up in methodology or statistical manipulation.

But thanks for the link....did I miss it in the other reference ?

Not personally a big fan of bike share programs as I've seen them here. Large amounts
of money seem to get used with less than maximal benefit due to theft, abuse, etc.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-29-14, 08:15 PM   #6864
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This isn't an argument.

For someone who calls people "little girls" when they can't argue, you are quite sensitive. This is a bad place for sensitive people. Try to get back onto the topic.
As a response to "Your responses don't have much of anything to do with what you are responding to", this pretty much proves my point.
Six jours is offline  
Old 02-03-14, 08:00 AM   #6865
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,528
The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
rydabent is offline  
Old 02-04-14, 10:42 AM   #6866
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
Gen pop also thought pet rocks were a great idea. Doesn't mean it made them any safer.
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline  
Old 02-04-14, 10:55 AM   #6867
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
You keep saying anti helmet to describe those who simply don't feel they're necessary. The number of anti helmet people is so miniscule as to be meaningless.

So folks like myself don't care one iota whether helmet use is up or down.

OTOH, increased helmet use may not reflect a general consensus as much as the effects of the regular and pounding lectures that helmets are required. So you may be happy that the pounding is working, but to me it simply means that more folks are becoming convince that bicycling is dangerous, which I don't think is such good news.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 02-04-14, 11:12 AM   #6868
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,603
He's trolling. Every time the helmet discussion goes quiet for a few days, rydabent drops in another one of these.
howsteepisit is offline  
Old 02-04-14, 12:59 PM   #6869
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,528
howsteep

Trolling is always brought up by people that have nothing to add, and by those that just like to attack other people they dont agree with.

Most logical people agree that a helmet may prevent injury in a low speed accident. What is wrong with preventing injury?
rydabent is offline  
Old 02-04-14, 01:15 PM   #6870
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
howsteep

Trolling is always brought up by people that have nothing to add, and by those that just like to attack other people they dont agree with.

Most logical people agree that a helmet may prevent injury in a low speed accident. What is wrong with preventing injury?
We've been here a number of times. There's nothing wrong with preventing injury. But it's not a black and white question. If it were, we'd wear helmets full time, especially older people who account for the majority of all head injuries simply by falling.

It's a question of likelihood of injury vs. the effort at prevention. For some of us, the risk of head injury on a bicycle doesn't warrant a helmet. Those who disagree are free to wear one if they choose.

OTOH- if we're really concerned about preventing injury there are countless things we might do that are more likely to help than wearing a helmet on a bicycle. We could start by simply not riding such dangerous vehicles in traffic, we could change our diet, we could move to ranch houses to eliminate those dangerous staircases, etc.

So PLEASE stop saying "what's wrong with preventing injury?" because it's a meaningless question only a child would ask.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 02-04-14, 01:17 PM   #6871
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
howsteep

Trolling is always brought up by people that have nothing to add, and by those that just like to attack other people they dont agree with.

Most logical people agree that a helmet may prevent injury in a low speed accident. What is wrong with preventing injury?
How many of those people contributing to surveys claiming helmet use is up are wearing helmets because they "may prevent injury in a low speed accident"? Vs. those wearing helmets because they have become a cycling fashion accessory (ref., Nutcase--great colors and designs, not so good at protection)? Vs. those who wear helmets "because you never know when you'll get hit by a car!!!"?
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline  
Old 02-04-14, 03:25 PM   #6872
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The anti helmet types here must really be disgusted. There are surveys from all over the country showing that helmet use is up. Apparently their rants agains helmets are falling on deaf ears, and the general population have decided that helmets just make sense. Rave on guys.
Where in this is anything about preventing injures of any type. Fact is that traffic on this forum slowed down so you thought you would stir the pot and get things going - in my book that's trolling.


Carry on, I really don't care, enough to engage.
howsteepisit is offline  
Old 02-05-14, 02:34 AM   #6873
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 13,645


...as long as this is going on, someone ought to make some money from it.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-05-14, 08:09 AM   #6874
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,528
With all the phony research and polls the anti helmet crowd blathers about, and their idea they are such safe and wonderful bike handlers they cant disprove one thing. Schidt happens!!!!!!! There will alway be that unexpected patch of gravel, that glass shard, and the car out of no where that will put them on the ground.

Who here would rather be thrown to the ground without a helmet?
rydabent is offline  
Old 02-05-14, 07:13 PM   #6875
elcruxio
Senior Member
 
elcruxio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Turku, Finland, Europe
Bikes: 2011 Specialized crux comp, 2013 Specialized Rockhopper Pro
Posts: 1,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
With all the phony research and polls the anti helmet crowd blathers about, and their idea they are such safe and wonderful bike handlers they cant disprove one thing. Schidt happens!!!!!!! There will alway be that unexpected patch of gravel, that glass shard, and the car out of no where that will put them on the ground.

Who here would rather be thrown to the ground without a helmet?
two points.

first, you could point out a few of these anti helmet types since I have absolutely no idea who you are talking about. Seems like your own invention.

and second. A glass shard? There's a reason I use tubeless mate. And don't you ride a trike? So a shard wont bother you much either.

as to cars out of nowhere. Where I live cars are not magical as in, they do not just appear. They always come from somewhere. From a side street, or from behind you, etc. etc. I have not been surprised by a sudden car in... forever.

unpredictable drivers are a problem but one can prepare for even them. It really is that simple. If the infra is in good order. As to getting rear ended in the highway. The helmet's not going to help there.
elcruxio is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:10 PM.