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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-24-14, 07:41 AM   #7476
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
The Helmet Thread: Changing hearts and minds since...


...wait, has this ever happened before?
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
There have been a few who have come to understand that helmets do not have the magical properties they once thought they did.
Yep. I came into Helmet Thread believing helmets were much more protective than they actually are. Now I continue wearing a helmet while riding for the right reasons, not the wrong ones.

Today I commuted into work without a helmet and didn't die. Didn't crash, either. And I was going way faster than usual -- stiff tailwind, woo-hoo!
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Old 04-24-14, 09:02 PM   #7477
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I climbed a step stool to get something off a top shelf today at home. Ceiling fan was on and hit me in the head with two blades. Wish i had my helmet on. No serious damage but it did hurt.
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Old 04-24-14, 10:08 PM   #7478
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I climbed a step stool to get something off a top shelf today at home. Ceiling fan was on and hit me in the head with two blades. Wish i had my helmet on. No serious damage but it did hurt.
Well, several of us have claimed that bicycle helmets are more useful for adults inside their homes than they are while cycling.

I should have figured JoeyBike would come along to prove the point.
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Old 04-25-14, 06:57 AM   #7479
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Why is it that the anti helmet types want us to wear our bike helmets everywhere except on our bikes?
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Old 04-25-14, 10:32 AM   #7480
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Well, several of us have claimed that bicycle helmets are more useful for adults inside their homes than they are while cycling.
What about people working on ladders or rooftops? Roofers sometimes rope up but I don't ever recall seeing a house painter on a ladder roped up or wearing a helmet. Ladders are the evil incarnation of injury. Roller skating rinks and ice skating rinks would be another good opportunity to try selling helmets.
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Old 04-25-14, 10:45 AM   #7481
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Thing is, why would you fall on some leaves?
Because there was a hidden expansion joint buried under the leaves on a rainy Fall (no pun intended) day which rendered the deep groove invisible.

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As stated earlier in this thread, most of these situations can be prevented by smart riding.
If I had some sort of psychic capability, as you must, then I might not wear my helmet most days except for those when I knew I would fall off. Actually, if I had psychic powers I would throw my bike in the dumpster and just walk to the race track from my house.

When things go south on a bicycle, they go south FAST. I had a grey squirrel jump through my front wheel one day - just popped out from behind a trash can. I didn't go down by some miracle but there was nothing I could do about that situation nor a few bent spokes. (I don't think the squirrel made it though).

Seems we have two basic types of riders on this thread. Those who wear helmets and will never have to wonder (no matter what the outcome of a crash) if they could have done better. Then there are those who might one day wonder (or their friends might have to wonder for them) if a helmet would have made a difference for them. Any day could be that day unless you truly have psychic power.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 04-25-14 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 04-25-14, 01:07 PM   #7482
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Because there was a hidden expansion joint buried under the leaves on a rainy Fall (no pun intended) day which rendered the deep groove invisible.
You don't understand. With mad skillz you can see that which can *NOT* be seen and therefore not need that helmet.

(Meanwhile, some folks live and ride in an actual world.)

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Old 04-25-14, 01:17 PM   #7483
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(Meanwhile, some folks live and ride in an actual world.)
...without a helmet, with no untoward consequences.
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Old 04-25-14, 01:25 PM   #7484
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...without a helmet, with no untoward consequences.
Law of large numbers. Google it. (Hint - most people can text and drive with no untoward consequences.)

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Old 04-25-14, 01:58 PM   #7485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Because there was a hidden expansion joint buried under the leaves on a rainy Fall (no pun intended) day which rendered the deep groove invisible.



If I had some sort of psychic capability, as you must, then I might not wear my helmet most days except for those when I knew I would fall off. Actually, if I had psychic powers I would throw my bike in the dumpster and just walk to the race track from my house.

When things go south on a bicycle, they go south FAST. I had a grey squirrel jump through my front wheel one day - just popped out from behind a trash can. I didn't go down by some miracle but there was nothing I could do about that situation nor a few bent spokes. (I don't think the squirrel made it though).

Seems we have two basic types of riders on this thread. Those who wear helmets and will never have to wonder (no matter what the outcome of a crash) if they could have done better. Then there are those who might one day wonder (or their friends might have to wonder for them) if a helmet would have made a difference for them. Any day could be that day unless you truly have psychic power.
I have bolded the relevant point. Why was it hidden? Why did you ride into something where something could be hidden in? Seriously dude it seems to me you are the last person to preach about safety to others...

But you know what... I DO have such an amazing ability. It's called experience, eyesight and just not riding like a pillock. I don't take stupid risks like ride high speed into leaves especially if I have thin tires under me (I would never, ever ride into leaves with anything under 2.3 inches). This superpower keeps me safe and my noggin road rash free.
You do realize my point was that it's just dumb to ride recklessly into something you don't see. Our road code does have this principle that a vehicle must be stoppable in the visible road portion. In tight curves this means: drive/ride slow. I usually do that with every situation. If I'm unsure I slow down. If I feel like the road surface is something that might not be pleasant, I slow down. If I need to go into a wet corner with any kind of tires, I slow down. If I need to ride into a puddle I don't know, I stop and crawl through it. Of course if I had a helmet on I wouldn't have to do any of those things because helmet seems to give the ability to ride full speed into a pile of leaves on a unknown wet autumn road...

Do you maybe see some error in logic here...?
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Old 04-25-14, 01:59 PM   #7486
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Law of large numbers. Google it. (Hint - most people can text and drive with no untoward consequences.)

-mr. bill
Then again, when people text and drive it's called negligence and it does in fact kill people. Not wearing a helmet, not so much really.
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Old 04-25-14, 02:07 PM   #7487
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Law of large numbers. Google it. (Hint - most people can text and drive with no untoward consequences.)

-mr. bill
Some people text and crash cars; some people crash bikes while wearing helmets and die.
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Old 04-25-14, 02:23 PM   #7488
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Some people text and crash cars; some people crash bikes while wearing helmets and die.
All people will die.

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Old 04-25-14, 05:31 PM   #7489
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All people will die.
Good.
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Old 04-25-14, 10:28 PM   #7490
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Why did you ride into something where something could be hidden in? Seriously dude it seems to me you are the last person to preach about safety to others...
Are you kidding me? I'm not riding a Townie on the MUP, I'm riding on real city streets with cars one foot off each elbow at speed. Many of our streets have potholes which fill with water when it rains or leaves when they fall. The only way to avoid such hidden hazards is to drive a tank. Even automobiles get damaged by our streets. So sooner or later, if you are commuting EVERY DAY, it's gonna rain, get dark, and throw everything at you (except ice and snow which is a whole 'nother topic for helmet discussion). Obviously, to me anyway, you ride in a very protected environment, maybe an indoor trainer? Ridiculous post man. Just silly. Your spots, or lack of them, are really showing here.

Quote:
But you know what... I DO have such an amazing ability. It's called experience, eyesight and just not riding like a pillock. I don't take stupid risks like ride high speed into leaves especially if I have thin tires under me (I would never, ever ride into leaves with anything under 2.3 inches). This superpower keeps me safe and my noggin road rash free.
You do realize my point was that it's just dumb to ride recklessly into something you don't see. Our road code does have this principle that a vehicle must be stoppable in the visible road portion. In tight curves this means: drive/ride slow. I usually do that with every situation. If I'm unsure I slow down. If I feel like the road surface is something that might not be pleasant, I slow down. If I need to go into a wet corner with any kind of tires, I slow down. If I need to ride into a puddle I don't know, I stop and crawl through it. Of course if I had a helmet on I wouldn't have to do any of those things because helmet seems to give the ability to ride full speed into a pile of leaves on a unknown wet autumn road...
Slowing down does not prevent crashing. And "riding recklessly into something you don't see" is what ALWAYS happens with stuff you don't see. If I saw the thing I didn't see I would have avoided hitting it in the first place.

Quote:
Do you maybe see some error in logic here...?
I saw nothing remotely resembling logic here and I rode recklessly into it anyway.
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Old 04-27-14, 07:12 AM   #7491
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Are you kidding me? I'm not riding a Townie on the MUP, I'm riding on real city streets with cars one foot off each elbow at speed. Many of our streets have potholes which fill with water when it rains or leaves when they fall. The only way to avoid such hidden hazards is to drive a tank. Even automobiles get damaged by our streets. So sooner or later, if you are commuting EVERY DAY, it's gonna rain, get dark, and throw everything at you (except ice and snow which is a whole 'nother topic for helmet discussion). Obviously, to me anyway, you ride in a very protected environment, maybe an indoor trainer? Ridiculous post man. Just silly. Your spots, or lack of them, are really showing here.
We have a saying "It's a world of choices". When I was in Prague a few weeks back I noticed that a vast majority of all local cyclists were riding full suspension mountain bikes. Makes sense since it would be practically impossible to ride anything less than a fat tired hardtail in said city. Cobbles. Cobbles everywhere. So if you do have bad roads you might want to consider a bike which allows you to navigate them safely.

Also it's funny how you take the whole protected environment/no experience stance here. I don't own a car so I do all my transportation by bike. Got that out of the picture. Also we do have roads which would disintegrate a hummer if you drove it faster than 10mph. Dirt roads with holes, stones the size of baby heads etc. Still I can do 25mph on those roads with my hardtail no problem (downhill obviously) and it's quite fun actually. The reason being, a bike can dodge obstacles (such as potholes, leaves, baby head stones, etc) and a hardtail can actually ride over some relatively substantial stuff.

Also you might choose to ride in unsafe conditions and in a unsafe manner and require helmets for all due to your own experiences. But you have to understand not all of us have a deathwish and not all our rides are adrenalin pumped sufferfests amidst cars/heavy traffic. Again, choices. And you also must realize if you do get run over a car (which seems to be your biggest hazard) a helmet is not likely to help all that much.
Most of my riding is just getting around now especially in the winter months. However sometimes I choose to do more dangerous stuff such as downhill or road riding and then I do protect myself accordingly. I also realize that in my getting around cycling there are no substantial risks, things don't go south fast at all as I'm in control and not, again, riding like a pillock.

Quote:
Slowing down does not prevent crashing. And "riding recklessly into something you don't see" is what ALWAYS happens with stuff you don't see. If I saw the thing I didn't see I would have avoided hitting it in the first place.
Really? You really sure about that? I guess speed limits on highways are for gas mileage then... Funny thing that. Then again I always thought that if you allow yourself more reaction time it gives you more options for a better assessment and lowering the chance of an actual crash. But I may be wrong...

On the whole riding into something you don't see thing. I hoped I didn't have to spell this out but here goes.
This is what uncle Cruxio would have done.
"oh, leaves! better slow down because leaves are very slippery"
"Oh, A clean straight stretch of tarmac! I can go with any speed I like since there are no visible dangers."
This actually perfectly applies with snow. If there is loose snow on the ground and I have not had the chance to assess the weather/conditions beforehand I feel tempted to just not ride over the stuff. You will find yourself on your side faster than you can... do something relativel fast I guess...
So the logic is. If I see the road, safe. If I don't see the road, react accordingly.
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Old 04-27-14, 07:43 AM   #7492
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There's another thread in A&S proper about this case where a woman who killed a kid cyclist is suing the cyclist's family. Pertinent to this thread is in bold, below...:

Driver of SUV that hit cyclists suing dead teen’s family

...the female motorist who struck and killed a teenage cyclist 18 months ago is now suing the estate of the dead boy for more than $1 million.

They particularly believe that the boys were blamed for the accident that killed Brandon — that it was their fault because only two of the bikes had what the police called “minimal reflectors,” because they were riding abreast, because their clothing was dark, albeit with reflectors, because they weren’t wearing helmets.

----------------------

Now of course this hasn't gone to trial yet, and such arguments could be summarily dismissed, but here you have it... a lawyer going after a dead cyclist as irresponsible for not wearing a helmet. Regardless of what goes down in court, it's being cited in media as irresponsibility on the part of the dead kid.
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Old 04-27-14, 08:18 AM   #7493
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Regardless of what goes down in court, it's being cited in media...
Regardless of ANYTHING related to truth or facts, factoids, urban legends and gossip are being cited (repeated) in "media;" including all sorts of PR stunts, celebrity banter and/or legal grasping at straw efforts. So what?
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Old 04-27-14, 09:56 AM   #7494
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I wear a helmet all of the time.

If I am out riding on a beautiful day without my helmet
should i even take this seriously?

should you even ride a bike, when wearing a helmet magically makes you crash burn and die?




even when i broke my fork on the cobbles and went face first full speed (great karma for not leaving any scars tho) it wasnt that dramatic..
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Old 04-27-14, 09:59 AM   #7495
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a lawyer going after a dead cyclist as irresponsible for not wearing a helmet.
no matter how strong i disagree with the claim, its still "his job", lawyers get paid to help their clients
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Old 04-27-14, 01:24 PM   #7496
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I often get asked why I wear a helmet all of the time. Here is my basic answer:

If I am out riding on a beautiful day without my helmet...
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should i even take this seriously?
You took that quote out of context. I never ride without my helmet. Perhaps my "am" should have been a "were to go" but no matter, the rest of the post that you did not include in the quote meaning was painfully obvious to [almost] anyone reading it.
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Old 04-27-14, 03:14 PM   #7497
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What about people working on ladders or rooftops? Roofers sometimes rope up but I don't ever recall seeing a house painter on a ladder roped up or wearing a helmet. Ladders are the evil incarnation of injury. Roller skating rinks and ice skating rinks would be another good opportunity to try selling helmets.
I have used roller skates in rinks and on the street since the early 70's in fact for about 16 years I skated the streets about 20 hours a week. I fell many hundreds of times and never once hit my head or felt the need to wear a helmet. My experience with cycling is the same, I have been hit by and I have hit vehicles and gone down on my own and never once hit my head. I ride everyday and ride in all weather conditions including some you never have. I am not in danger of death because I am not wearing my magic hat and I don't run lights as a normal maneuver. I have said this before "Millions of people ride millions of miles every day all over the world and never think of wearing a helmet." This is a sign of "chicken little syndrome" usually manifested in white middle aged males in North America.
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Old 04-27-14, 04:26 PM   #7498
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So what?
It's something the pro-helmeteers have touted at various points -- not wearing a helmet is perceived as negligent conduct. Will hopefully not figure into an actual court case, but certainly is effective on the lawyer's part in the court of public opinion.

Also makes me wonder how much of the public, and among just cyclists, views helmetless riding as irresponsible.

Where those kids were hit, is there a MHL/kid specific MHL in place?
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Old 04-27-14, 04:38 PM   #7499
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Why is it that the anti helmet types want us to wear our bike helmets everywhere except on our bikes?
Why do you insist on calling those who oppose your false claims of magical properties of helmets, "anti helmet"? They have all said they are fine with you wearing a helmet, yet you insist on your false labels.

The reason some of us recommend people like you should also wear a helmet at home, is because for those situations the helmet does more for you than when you are cycling.
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Old 04-27-14, 04:42 PM   #7500
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no matter how strong i disagree with the claim, its still "his job", lawyers get paid to help their clients
But it is still unreasonable to lie while performing that duty. They also have a duty to justice; sad how many times they ignore that duty just to win at any cost.
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