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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-22-14, 06:34 AM   #8026
rydabent
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joey

"Helmets dont look cool" And laying is a casket looks cool???? When does looking cool supercede common sense?
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Old 06-22-14, 07:46 AM   #8027
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
joey

"Helmets dont look cool" And laying is a casket looks cool???? When does looking cool supercede common sense?
Is that meant to be sarcasm?

For most people, male and female, appearance is EVERYTHING. Did you not read the cigarette smoking part of my post?

I quote myself:

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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
...Keep in mind that HALF of all cigarette smokers are going to die from cigarette caused disease. 50% of them! Yet, plenty of people worldwide still smoke. Roughly 5 million people die from smoking every year and another million INNOCENT people die from exposure to second hand smoke each year. Yet, given that the chances of perishing from their actions is statistically the "flip of a coin"...they still smoke. And almost every single one of those smokers picked up the habit because it LOOKS COOL to them...

...So you gotta ask yourself: If people will continually do something that is positively going to kill half of them outright (and diminish the health of the other half) and kill some of their kids too, what chance do you or I have at changing the minds of people who are risking a statistical zero chance of serious consequences from riding on a bicycle bare-headed? The answer: Another statistical zero...
It's how they look to THEMSELVES and how they perceive they are seen by others. They light up and their mind sees themselves as Joe Cool. I see them as Joe Loser. It's not what I see that counts to them. It's what they THINK others are seeing that matters. How they are going to look in a casket is not even in the picture.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 06-22-14 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 06-22-14, 08:18 AM   #8028
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And laying is a casket looks cool????
Over the top hyperbole, typical of the whacked-out pro-helmeteers.

How many dead cyclists in 2013 were wearing helmets...?
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Old 06-22-14, 11:38 AM   #8029
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The invincible that think their superior bike handling skills preclude them from ever going down are not very logical.
Judging from the many "a helmet saved my life" stories, that basically start with "I was doing something stupid and/or risky and completely avoidable on a bicycle..." it's probably more like a good lot of the helmeteers are incompetent cyclists with little to no insight in bicycle safety. It's not that I have superior bike handling skills, it's just that I don't go full ret@rd whenever I'm on a bicycle, like a lot of the helmet fan-boys seem to do.

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Old 06-22-14, 02:08 PM   #8030
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I've had brain pharts since the day I was born and expect to have them until I die. My helmet is a tool that I employ as a precautionary item that might aid in my continued pharting as I grow older. Had good use of said helmet when I bounced my head off the pavement a few weeks ago after a quick phart and fall.
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Old 06-22-14, 02:43 PM   #8031
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I've had brain pharts since the day I was born and expect to have them until I die. My helmet is a tool that I employ as a precautionary item that might aid in my continued pharting as I grow older. Had good use of said helmet when I bounced my head off the pavement a few weeks ago after a quick phart and fall.
I go down about once a year. I am a bit overdue right now. It's almost always something silly, often invisible, but sometimes avoidable. I have never hit my head. I did barely touch my chin on the pavement once. Didn't even cut me, but I clearly felt my chin kiss the ground. I have zero denial that sooner than later some pothole filled with water after dark, or curb hidden by fallen leaves, algae growing in a perpetual puddle, oily trolley tracks, or whatever, is going to have me rolling on the ground - hopefully at a very low speed as usual. I'll be happy with my helmet if it just keeps some sand from embedding in my scalp. My expectations for falling again are high and for my helmet "saving" me are low. I guess helmet use is for the same reason I sleep under a light blanket during the summer months.
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Old 06-23-14, 02:51 AM   #8032
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There's another common category of "a helmet saved my life" stories that features 3 element, namely, a) a minor bicycle accident, b) absence of any serious injuries and c) a bicycle helmet that failed spectacularly. These stories are another hint that bicycle helmets probably won't do a lot for you, since they show helmets often already fail in minor accidents. But somehow the helmet crowd almost invariably concludes that the busted helmet is definitive proof that the helmet saved them from (a fate worse than) death. This way of thinking also hysterically over-hypes the dangers of cycling accidents and, by extension, cycling.

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Old 06-23-14, 06:34 AM   #8033
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Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari View Post
There's another common category of "a helmet saved my life" stories that features 3 element, namely, a) a minor bicycle accident, b) absence of any serious injuries and c) a bicycle helmet that failed spectacularly. These stories are another hint that bicycle helmets probably won't do a lot for you, since they show helmets often already fail in minor accidents. But somehow the helmet crowd almost invariably concludes that the busted helmet is definitive proof that the helmet saved them from (a fate worse than) death. This way of thinking also hysterically over-hypes the dangers of cycling accidents and, by extension, cycling.
And yet using helmets have statistical proof that they do work better than wearing no helmet at all.

A irrefutable statistical site that proves they work:
Bicycle Helmet Statistics

and this one:
Helmets and Head Injuries: Crash Stories

More statistics and debunking of the helmets don't work crowd:
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1139.html

But I know you don't care about statistics or what doctors or first responders say so you won't read any of the above sites because your mind is made up, which is a poor use of any intelligible facilities you might have. It's one thing to say you don't want to wear a helmet because you simply don't like them and refuse to wear them, because then you're talking about your rights, and I believe a person has the right to choose whether or not they want to wear a helmet or a seat belt; but it's another thing to attempt to debunk helmets as completely ineffective and that's why you don't wear them when the facts speak for themselves that they do prevent or reduce a certain degree of injury to the brain.

And riding a bike or driving a car you wear safety devices not because the bike or the car industry is hysterically over-hyping the dangers of accidents, it's because if in the unlikely event you have an accident that you have devices that will attempt to save your life or reduce injury in case of an accident, the same is true with helmets. If the way you think is true then people would think that driving a car is dangerous and that's why we have seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones because it's dangerous and thus and driving a car is just living on borrowed time. As ridiculous as that sounds about driving a car it is as equally ridiculous as your statement about the hysteria of overhyping the dangers of cycling.

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Old 06-23-14, 07:22 AM   #8034
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joey

Not everyone is worried about what other people think of them or how they look. Grow a pair and do your own thing, and if that includes wearing a helmet, all the better.

Not wearing a helmet because you worry about what other people think is the lameist excuse ever for not wearing a helmet.

BTW dont worry about what other people think----------most dont think anyway!!!

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Old 06-23-14, 07:59 AM   #8035
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Not everyone is worried about what other people think of them or how they look. Grow a pair and do your own thing, and if that includes wearing a helmet, all the better.
I have worked sales floors in bike shops. Many, many people won't wear a helmet because it will mess up their hair or make them look too dorky. They have looked me in the eyes and told me so. I would say easily the majority of people in the USA who go without a helmet are worried about their appearance. i.e., how they look to other people. Have you never heard of FASHION and STYLE? Those concepts are kind of a big deal to most people.

On a similar note, when I was a young man with a motorcycle trolling for female companionship during the 1970s-80s when Farrah Fawcett dictated hair styles it was INCREDIBLY difficult or impossible to date such a girl with a motorcycle. No way on earth were they going to crush that hairdo with a helmet or have the wind make a bird's nest out of it. Same applies to bicycle helmets with today's females and their hair styles.

Quote:
Not wearing a helmet because you worry about what other people think is the lameist excuse ever for not wearing a helmet.
It's a better excuse than simply not believing a helmet could reduce injuries to the head during some crashes.

Quote:
BTW dont worry about what other people think----------most dont think anyway!!!
I wear the dorkiest helmets on earth. Big visors with a mirror attached. I also wear a helmet compatible hair cut (crew cut). Most will not go to that length (pun intended) to wear a helmet, especially females.

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Old 06-23-14, 08:13 AM   #8036
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
And yet using helmets have statistical proof that they do work better than wearing no helmet at all.

A irrefutable statistical site that proves they work:
Bicycle Helmet Statistics

and this one:
Helmets and Head Injuries: Crash Stories

More statistics and debunking of the helmets don't work crowd:
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1139.html ....

I can refute the statistics on that site, but I am satisfied with other data that helmets can reduce serious head injury by 1/2 to 2/3.

The question really is "how well do they work", and that question entails "how necessary". Not IF you have an accident involving a motor vehicle, but HOW LIKELY is that accident, and how likely the traumatic brain injury occurs.

I wore one on my ride-my-years ride yesterday. Not because I believed that there was any realistic chance that it would protect me from suffering a traumatic brain injury or from a fatal accident, but for the much more probable scalp wound from a minor fall.

Last edited by wphamilton; 06-23-14 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 06-23-14, 11:56 AM   #8037
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
A irrefutable statistical site that proves they work:
Bicycle Helmet Statistics

and this one:
Helmets and Head Injuries: Crash Stories

More statistics and debunking of the helmets don't work crowd:
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1139.html
The first two links go to the same, well-known bicycle helmet propaganda site and ironically the last one leads to one of the most well-known sites that's critical about bicycle helmets (a bit too propaganda-ish for my taste btw). So apparently it's you who won't bother to read about bicycle helmets, because you don't even know what the links you (try to) cherry pick are about. The rest of your post is half your usual verbal vomit, and I'm not going to waste time on your pathetic straw-man arguments. The other half is your next misguided attempt to compare crappy safety gear (bicycle helmets) with very effective safety gear (seat belts, air bags) And it all seems based on your inability to understand the difference between bicycle crashes (usually fairly benign) and car crashes (big chance of injuries and/or death).
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Old 06-23-14, 12:20 PM   #8038
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I would say easily the majority of people in the USA who go without a helmet are worried about their appearance. i.e., how they look to other people. Have you never heard of FASHION and STYLE? Those concepts are kind of a big deal to most people.
Do you mean to say that the majority of cyclists in the USA who do wear a helmet have no concern about fashion, style or their own appearance? If true, it would explain why many other people view such cyclists as nerds, dweebs and/or bums.
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Old 06-23-14, 01:59 PM   #8039
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Do you mean to say that the majority of cyclists in the USA who do wear a helmet have no concern about fashion, style or their own appearance? If true, it would explain why many other people view such cyclists as nerds, dweebs and/or bums.

Not exactly that. It all depends on the style, and there are many of them. For example, the Tri-Athlete crowd in my town have their own sense of style. They purchase Cervelos, body suits, and teardrop helmets. Most don't go any faster because of these things, they just look "right" to their desired peer group. Tri events are pretty much substitutes for hanging out at night clubs full of relatively fit singles. Many Tri participants can barely even be considered athletes, same with the majority of participants in major marathon "races" like the NYC Marathon and Boston Marathon. Just a giant moving party with another party at the end. So there is one style - the "Athletic" style. Wearing a helmet is in style for Triathletes and most if not all would think they look dorky or "not a serious rider" without a helmet, even when just practicing on their own. They are proud of their passion and want to wear/ride a recognizable sign for all to see "Hey...I am a Triathlete!"

Other athletic folks are willing to forgo fancy styled hair from a salon in order to pursue their other active interests. Girls will pull their hair back into a ponytail, or get a style that is easy to primp up themselves when not playing sports or riding bikes. My wife fits into this category. She is a gym rat and likes hiking, walking, roller hockey, and other outdoor pursuits. She spends way too much money and time on her hair but when push comes to shove, she is going to begrudgingly wear protective headgear. Her vanity keeps her FROM wanting to some day be seen in public drooling uncontrollably or to depend on me to style her hair every day if she were disabled. So she will succumb to helmet use or even wear a hat when it's cold outside.

Another group exists as well. I have female cousins ranging in age from 13 to 60 years and NONE of them will even wear a hat in the wintertime no matter how cold it gets or where they are. If it's too cold to go out without a hat, they are not going out. If they went to NYC for New Years Eve and it was 10*F outside, they are going to be very uncomfortable or stay in the hotel room. Back in my retail days on a sales floor it was common for snow bunnies (females who wear ski fashion on the slopes) to go bare headed on the slopes and are NEVER, EVER going to wear some old wool hat. They are going to wear NO hat, or some less-than effective decoration on their heads. This group of people, mostly female but a surprising number of males, are NEVER going to wear a bike helmet. And if they think a bike helmet is mandatory they are never going to ride a bicycle ever again.


Image Source

The next category I will mention is the group that rides their bikes helmet free. In my town, the "bike club" non-racer folks on their Fred bikes are generally seen as the geekiest of the nerds out there with helmets, mirrors, orange safety vests, and bikes with two feet of handlebar rise. These are the people that "normal" people do not want to look like, and the bike helmet is el-numero-uno on the list of avoided looks. Many ride helmet-free to NOT look geeky. Then there are the hipsters who follow their own hearts and don't want to look like any generation before them. A helmet could be a fashion accessory for hipsters but many don't wear them. It is unlikely that a hipster would ever say "Dude...where is your helmet?" even if they were wearing one. Finally, in New Orleans, we have a whole mess of people who just use a bike to get around town and don't even think about helmets. Not even on the radar. These folks might be quite fashionable or look like Beetlejuice. They cross the entire spectrum of how people look. They might wear hats, but not helmets.



My last example shines a light on the motorcycle crowd. Have you ever noticed that middle-aged people (who should know better) on cruiser-bikes like Harley-Davidsons wear no helmets or wear some "decorative" headgear that has no chance of protecting their heads in a crash? Then you notice the young "immortal" riders on crotch-rocket sport bikes wearing the best full-faced helmets money can buy with graphic designs matching their bikes. Why? The answer is FASHION!



In conclusion, if it were FASHIONABLE to wear bicycle helmets, then all of the move stars, music stars, and sports heroes would be wearing them. Only then would you see a drastic increase in bicycle helmet use. As long as those stars drive the style and fashion industries there will be regular people, and plenty of them, modeling themselves after those famous people with hairstyles not conducive to wearing any kind of helmet.
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Old 06-23-14, 04:08 PM   #8040
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Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari View Post
The first two links go to the same, well-known bicycle helmet propaganda site and ironically the last one leads to one of the most well-known sites that's critical about bicycle helmets (a bit too propaganda-ish for my taste btw). So apparently it's you who won't bother to read about bicycle helmets, because you don't even know what the links you (try to) cherry pick are about. The rest of your post is half your usual verbal vomit, and I'm not going to waste time on your pathetic straw-man arguments. The other half is your next misguided attempt to compare crappy safety gear (bicycle helmets) with very effective safety gear (seat belts, air bags) And it all seems based on your inability to understand the difference between bicycle crashes (usually fairly benign) and car crashes (big chance of injuries and/or death).
Prove those sites are propaganda sites.
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Old 06-23-14, 10:21 PM   #8041
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Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari
The other half is your next misguided attempt to compare crappy safety gear (bicycle helmets) with very effective safety gear (seat belts, air bags) And it all seems based on your inability to understand the difference between bicycle crashes (usually fairly benign) and car crashes (big chance of injuries and/or death).
So essentially, what use are any forms of helmets at all?

In a construction site, it would barely - if at all - protect the wearer from a fall, collapsing concrete slabs, falling iron girders, etc so I guess construction workers should be allowed to wear their caps or bandanas or whatever is fashionable.

Air bags have been known to suffocate occupants and seat belts have been known to get stuck and slow/prevent escape from a burning/submerged vehicle, so unless bicycle helmets have been known to actively kill their wearers, how are the other safety equipment any better??

By all means, don't wear safety gear if you hate it, but stop making stupid excuses and stop dissuading others from doing so.

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Old 06-23-14, 10:46 PM   #8042
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keyven +1

Your last sentence says it all!!!!
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Old 06-23-14, 10:58 PM   #8043
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keyven +1

Your last sentence says it all!!!!
It works both ways, though. Whether or not you believe in wearing a helmet, let's just do what you believe is right for you and not force the belief onto others.
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Old 06-23-14, 11:30 PM   #8044
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It works both ways, though. Whether or not you believe in wearing a helmet, let's just do what you believe is right for you and not force the belief onto others.
I agree with not forcing one's beliefs on others, but it's still good to have the message out there.

Unfortunately some people take it too far and it becomes an aggressive game of oneupsmanship till the core message is no longer valid.
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Old 06-23-14, 11:57 PM   #8045
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I agree with not forcing one's beliefs on others, but it's still good to have the message out there.

Unfortunately some people take it too far and it becomes an aggressive game of oneupsmanship till the core message is no longer valid.
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Old 06-24-14, 12:00 AM   #8046
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I don't do much cycling that approximates working on a construction site. I do some that approximates jogging and some that approximates, well, racing bicycles.

Helmet needed for some riding but not all.
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Old 06-24-14, 03:00 AM   #8047
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So essentially, what use are any forms of helmets at all?
Since I was talking explicitly about bicycle helmets:



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so unless bicycle helmets have been known to actively kill their wearers, how are the other safety equipment any better??
Seat belts have a pretty impressive safety record, preventing 30-50% of fatalities alone, while it has yet to be seen if bicycle helmets are an effective means of protection. From what I can tell they're better than nothing, but there's no reason to believe they're very effective in preventing injuries. As for doing harm: some studies suggest that bicycle helmets increase the chance of neck injuries. That's only one of the suspected drawbacks. So what we've got is a safety device with a questionable safety record, that might have serious draw-backs for the wearer.

Quote:
By all means, don't wear safety gear if you hate it, but stop making stupid excuses and stop dissuading others from doing so.
I don't wear a bicycle helmet because it think they're uncomfortable, inconvenient, unnecessary and, as far as I can tell, fairly ineffective. It's a personal choice, and unlike you I don't expect anyone to do or believe the same as I do. And I should stop voicing my opinion about bicycle helmets? In this thread? Are you serious?
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Old 06-24-14, 03:09 AM   #8048
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I agree with not forcing one's beliefs on others, but it's still good to have the message out there.

Unfortunately some people take it too far and it becomes an aggressive game of oneupsmanship till the core message is no longer valid.
So you're saying you shouldn't force your beliefs on others, but that other opinions than yours are invalid and of questionable intend, so (as you implied in your earlier post) non-believers should (consider to) shut the F up? Nice try, but you might work on this thing called consistency.

Last edited by CarinusMalmari; 06-24-14 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 06-24-14, 03:39 AM   #8049
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Prove those sites are propaganda sites.
Decades of research into the subject of bicycle helmets have only resulted in a giant pile of inconclusive and often conflicting statistics. Any site that argues strongly in favor (or against for that matter) bicycle helmets can be considered propaganda.
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Old 06-24-14, 04:42 AM   #8050
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Originally Posted by CarinusMalmari View Post
Decades of research into the subject of bicycle helmets have only resulted in a giant pile of inconclusive and often conflicting statistics. Any site that argues strongly in favor (or against for that matter) bicycle helmets can be considered propaganda.
I have a proposition for you.....

Let's duplicate my fall of a few weeks ago and have your helmetless head bounce off the road as mine did on its back resulting in an impact sufficiently hard enough to cause a failure of the foam and we can find out how well your head/brain survives. This fall was only at 18mph.

Then we can try another one were during a 70.3 triathlon I crashed at 25.3mph and smacked my head pretty hard this time on the side and again we can see how your head makes out.

Just sayin.....
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