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-   -   The helmet thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/771371-helmet-thread.html)

I-Like-To-Bike 10-12-11 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13352969)
I can't understand why Randy wants to prevent someone from riding a bicycle if they want to do so without a helmet

Perhaps his motivation can be explained by his funding source.

closetbiker 10-12-11 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 13353046)
Perhaps his motivation can be explained by his funding source.

It could be, and you have to consider how long he has kept his quest up, but I'm still leaning towards the old zealotry angle.

My main concern is that what he does runs against cycling advocacy and spreads unfounded myths about riding bicycles

mconlonx 10-12-11 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriddleCakes (Post 13335357)
What Would Sexy Nixon Say? Wanton Waste of SuperNumerary Saliva? When Will the Seahawks Not Suck? Why Wear Shoes N' Socks?

Words We Shalt Not Say; rhymes with stupid and idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudo bike (Post 13335471)
Why? Why did you even post at all? Doesn't this make you part of the problem? Did you think this post would stop anyone from posting? :confused:

Because. Because it needed to be said, if for nothing else, then solely to expose humorless gits. Yes. No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriddleCakes (Post 13335357)
Sometimes, if you want a thing done...

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasm54 (Post 13335409)
Have you tried this? I know many will not regard it as neutral because it is very clear about the flaws in the pro-helmet position, but it does offer a fairly dispassionate analysis of the available evidence.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sudo bike (Post 13335471)
If you insist...
Head injuries and bicycle helmet laws

D. L. Robinson

AGBU, University of New England, Armidale, NSW 2351, Australia
Accepted 6 February 1996. ; Available online 26 February 1999.
Abstract

The first year of the mandatory bicycle helmet laws in Australia saw increased helmet wearing from 31% to 75% of cyclists in Victoria and from 31% of children and 26% of adults in New South Wales (NSW) to 76% and 85%. However, the two major surveys using matched before and after samples in Melbourne (Finch et al. 1993; Report No. 45, Monash Univ. Accident Research Centre) and throughout NSW (Smith and Milthorpe 1993; Roads and Traffic Authority) observed reductions in numbers of child cyclists 15 and 2.2 times greater than the increase in numbers of children wearing helmets. This suggests the greatest effect of the helmet law was not to encourage cyclists to wear helmets, but to discourage cycling.

Author Keywords: Bicycle; Head injury; Helmet; Legislation

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13336380)

A far more realistic site that addresses the helmet issue is the first one I provided on this new version of the thread,

http://bicyclesafe.com

If one is interested in studies and analysis, far more qualified anaylsis and opinions can be found at http://cyclehelmets.org/

------------------------------

a worthwhile read is the wiki entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet <-- Grand-daddy/mommy mother/fatherlode of helmet study linkage in the text and references at the bottom

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13306081)


Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzman (Post 13336169)
...I would suggest going to this site, which provides objectively collected data, some pro-helmet interpretations and links to sites which counter their views:

http://www.bhsi.org

For researched rational responses to many of the negatives about helmets I would suggest this site:

http://www.bhsi.org/negativs.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13365621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13366843)
It's not common to receive head injuries on bikes any more than it is to receive them off a bike, which is, not not common.

Here's another link....

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13369468)
[helmets/helmet advocates] promote injury.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudo bike (Post 13370863)
If the scalp helps reduce rotational injury to the brain by helping the head slide along pavement rather than catch, and a helmet reduced this effect, doesn't it stand to reason that at least in these sorts of accidents a helmet mitigates the effect of the scalp?

Again, why do you think they are now trying to replicate this "scalp effect" in new helmets? What would be the purpose if it were not effective?

"It has been suggested that the major causes of permanent intellectual disablement and death after head injury may be torsional forces leading to diffuse axonal injury (DAI), a form of injury which usual helmets cannot mitigate and may make worse.[68]"

"A bicycle helmet with its own synthetic "scalp" has been designed with the aim of mitigating rotational injury.[71]"

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13371397)



C'mon, you sissies, you got more links to helmet studies than this... Quit holding back. And no, I'm not going to comb through the other three threads to do this. I don't care enough about it any more than some noob posting here.

Daves_Not_Here 10-12-11 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 13353046)
Perhaps his motivation can be explained by his funding source.

What is his funding source? Pardon me if this is already common knowledge.

The website claims he is "100% consumer funded" which I find hard to believe because I don't think consumers feel that strongly about helmets, for or against.

I-Like-To-Bike 10-12-11 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here (Post 13353829)
What is his funding source? Pardon me if this is already common knowledge.

The website claims he is "100% consumer funded" which I find hard to believe because I don't think consumers feel that strongly about helmets, for or against.

Perhaps Randy the Helmet Proselytizer one day will tell the world who these "consumers" i.e. unnamed co-conspiritors, are.

Rak1240 10-12-11 12:59 PM

...

Six jours 10-12-11 06:47 PM

Those are three very good points, Rak.

chipcom 10-12-11 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 13356757)
Those are three very good points, Rak.

Which brings up a question...do they make helmets for pointy heads?

closetbiker 10-13-11 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 13356769)
Which brings up a question...do they make helmets for pointy heads?

Yes. They are manufactured in bulk in Saskatchewan

http://www.hawick.ca/bike/Images/melon.jpg

closetbiker 10-13-11 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 13353127)
..C'mon, you sissies, you got more links to helmet studies than this...

there sure are. you've missed a few others that have been posted here, but it probably doesn't matter if someone's not going to look at them with any measure of objectivity anyways.

mconlonx 10-13-11 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13359285)
there sure are. you've missed a few others that have been posted here, but it probably doesn't matter if someone's not going to look at them with any measure of objectivity anyways.

I bet you got dozens of links you could post in response. But aren't. Link-hoarder.

closetbiker 10-13-11 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 13361533)
I bet you got dozens of links you could post in response. But aren't. Link-hoarder.

geez. How many do you want? The wiki page has well over 100 links and the bicycle safe site has dozens of others.

Besides, if you find some on your own it's more rewarding

Daves_Not_Here 10-13-11 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 13353127)
Words We Shalt Not Say; rhymes with stupid and idiot.

C'mon, you sissies, you got more links to helmet studies than this... Quit holding back. And no, I'm not going to comb through the other three threads to do this. I don't care enough about it any more than some noob posting here.

Me too. C'mon guys. Gimme those links. I'm also too lazy to look for myself and I don't care either, but I want you to jump through hoops for me. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Whatever you do, it won't be enough. Why won't you do for me what I won't do for myself?

electrik 10-13-11 11:49 PM

Ouch, wear a lid and keep your scalp attached.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/235635/10-8-004b.jpg

sudo bike 10-14-11 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrik (Post 13362840)
Ouch, wear a lid and keep your scalp attached.

Yes, it will probably keep your scalp safe from injury. It also keeps the scalp from doing it's job.

(i.e., I'd rather have a ripped scalp than drain bamage :p).

closetbiker 10-14-11 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here (Post 13362768)
... I'm also too lazy to look for myself ...

don't forget, too lazy to think for yourself too

mconlonx 10-14-11 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13361596)
geez. How many do you want? The wiki page has well over 100 links and the bicycle safe site has dozens of others.

Besides, if you find some on your own it's more rewarding

Selfish canuck bastage.

Which one is the wiki-link in what I posted? Or is that one I missed?

mconlonx 10-14-11 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here (Post 13362768)
Me too. C'mon guys. Gimme those links. I'm also too lazy to look for myself and I don't care either, but I want you to jump through hoops for me. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Whatever you do, it won't be enough. Why won't you do for me what I won't do for myself?

Yeah, let's do ourselves a favor and not make it easy for people just jumping in here. And then harangue them for not having read through how many hundreds of pages of threads?

closetbiker 10-14-11 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 13363815)
Selfish canuck bastage.

Which one is the wiki-link in what I posted? Or is that one I missed?

Oh, you've missed more than just that.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think...

buzzman 10-14-11 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudo bike (Post 13362957)
Yes, it will probably keep your scalp safe from injury. It also keeps the scalp from doing it's job.

(i.e., I'd rather have a ripped scalp than drain bamage :p).

"He jests at scars that never felt a wound."- W. Shakespeare

closetbiker 10-14-11 11:04 AM

"We've become afraid of that which helps us" - some dude

electrik 10-14-11 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzman (Post 13364175)
"He jests at scars that never felt a wound."- W. Shakespeare

Yup, easy to post a study about why a helmet makes no difference... not so easy to get your own scalp ripped off. Talk is cheap.

closetbiker 10-14-11 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrik (Post 13365272)
... Talk is cheap.

yup. So are anecdotes.

have you considered, when helmet use skyrocketed... head injuries went up... Helmet-wearing may actually promote injury.

(read the link and check out its sources)

closetbiker 10-14-11 02:55 PM

Always love Dave's blog.

Today, he writes another great one.

Quote:

Irrational Fear

Thu, October 13, 2011

If I do a search on the web for cycling related stories, as I often do, it is most times depressing; many of the stories are related to cycling deaths.

If one is not careful this can give a person a totally distorted view of cycling and the risks cyclists take. It is probably the reason many people who would ride a bicycle, are afraid to do so.

If you are a cyclist you cannot allow fear to take over your thoughts, and one has to constantly push negative thoughts from your head. Most people believe in the power of positive thinking, and that success and good things happen to those who constantly think good thoughts.

By the same rule, if every time you ride your bike you think, “Is today the day a car will hit me,” chances are at some point a car will hit you.

It is not so much thinking those thoughts; one has a hard time not to sometimes with all the stories of cyclist killed on a daily basis. The important thing is to be aware of those thoughts and constantly push them from your mind.

One has to get the whole picture in perspective. 32,788 people died in automobile accidents in 2010, the lowest figure since 1950. That is still almost 90 people a day who got out of bed in the morning climbed in their car without a second thought, and by the end of the day were dead.

In that same 24 hour period less than two cyclists were killed. The difference is most of the 90 people who died in their cars did not get a mention in their local newspapers, but the two cyclists did.

For the last decade the number of cyclists who die on US roads each year has fluctuated around 650 and 700. (Less than 2 per day.) That is about the same as the number of people die in the US every year from accidental gun discharges.

Is there any gun owner who wakes in the morning to wonder, “Is today the day I will accidentally shoot myself?” Does anyone consider any one of us could be accidentally shot by someone else; of course not.

Also close to the cyclist death rate is the number of people who choke of a piece of food and die. Over 500 people drown each year in swimming pools. Over a 1,000 die from falling down stairs or steps.

So the next time you prepare for a bike ride and a nagging little thought that you might get hit enters your head; ask yourself, would I have these same thoughts of death and doom, as I walk down a flight of steps, or that I might choke while I am tucking into a nice juicy steak in a restaurant?

I refuse to let irrational fear stop me from doing what I love, that is to ride my bike on the road. I don’t take chances, and I choose the safest routes. I also look at statistics and I like my odds of survival.

If I consider the odds of getting hit by a car today is about the same as being accidentally shot; maybe I should wear a bullet-proof vest along with my helmet.

electrik 10-14-11 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by closetbiker (Post 13365621)
yup. So are anecdotes.

have you considered, when helmet use skyrocketed... head injuries went up... Helmet-wearing may actually promote injury.

(read the link and check out its sources)

Don't waste my time.

There is nothing anecdotal about that injury, people's scalps all offer the same resistance to pavement.


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