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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet 178 10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped 94 5.63%
I've always worn a helmet 648 38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do 408 24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions 342 20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-01-12, 08:34 AM   #1351
rydabent
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Im still waiting for a "true life adventure" of how wearing a helmet killed someone.
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Old 02-01-12, 01:53 PM   #1352
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Im still waiting for a "true life adventure" of how wearing a helmet killed someone.
Ah, so that's what you want. Now, how reasonable is it to expect anyone to say "A helmet killed me!"? Or, for that, to expect surgeons, police or helmet propagandists to tell of people being killed because they wore a helmet? You are aware, I hope, that there's a concensus among authorities that helmets are goooood - and given that bias, any case of a helmet being harmfull will hardly be noticed. Too easy to write off.

I told you of my incident. It's pretty obvious to me that NOT wearing a helmet may have saved my life. Most people would instead think that they'd better wear a helmet in the future, as helmets are goooood and will prevent head injury.

Still finding your request reasonable?
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Old 02-02-12, 11:39 AM   #1353
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hagen

Yes I find my request very reasonable. Your suggestion that dead people report is dumb. But it seems to me that all the anti helmet trolls should have volumes of reports on how wearing a helmet killed someone.

Btw what is the post number where you posted how not wearing a helmet kept you from injury?
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Old 02-02-12, 11:51 AM   #1354
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Post #1270, with further explanation in post #1310.
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Old 02-04-12, 08:46 AM   #1355
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sudo

Your accident really is no proof at all that a helmet would have caused more injury. As you described it you basically jammed your neck.
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Old 02-04-12, 09:53 AM   #1356
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stop the madness
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Old 02-04-12, 02:31 PM   #1357
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sudo

Your accident really is no proof at all that a helmet would have caused more injury. As you described it you basically jammed your neck.
It isn't my story, I just linked to hagen's liked you asked.
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Old 02-05-12, 09:28 AM   #1358
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On Friday January 3rd a $22.00 Schwinn Helmet saved me from a cracked skull and a scalping. It seems that I hit a dog at about 20mph and flipped both the bike and I. I still had a mild concussion but the helmet took the brunt of the damage. Although my shoulder is separated, my ribs severely bruised, and I have some decent road rash; I am still able to walk and talk thanks to wearing a helmet. I think I'll mount the helmet like a trophy!
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Old 02-05-12, 10:09 AM   #1359
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On Friday January 3rd a $22.00 Schwinn Helmet saved me from a cracked skull and a scalping. It seems that I hit a dog at about 20mph and flipped both the bike and I. I still had a mild concussion but the helmet took the brunt of the damage. Although my shoulder is separated, my ribs severely bruised, and I have some decent road rash; I am still able to walk and talk thanks to wearing a helmet. I think I'll mount the helmet like a trophy!
If you know from eye witnesses exactly how you fell, you may be able to tell if your claim has any credibility. If not, it's pure speculation.
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Old 02-05-12, 10:25 AM   #1360
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DaHa

Watch all the anti helmet trolls pile on to your accident and tell you that you are entirely wrong. They just cant stand anyone saying a helmet did it job!!!!!!
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Old 02-05-12, 10:57 AM   #1361
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DaHa

Watch all the anti helmet trolls pile on to your accident and tell you that you are entirely wrong. They just cant stand anyone saying a helmet did it job!!!!!!
You consistently exaggerate the positions of others. It serves no purpose. If anything, your debate manners must be embarrassing for the pro-helmeteers. Please stop.
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Old 02-05-12, 12:00 PM   #1362
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You consistently exaggerate the positions of others. It serves no purpose. If anything, your debate manners must be embarrassing for the pro-helmeteers. Please stop.
Indeed. Your incessant "anti-helmet trolls" invective serves only to irritate both sides in this debate.
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Old 02-05-12, 12:21 PM   #1363
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stop the madness
Says triumph.1 with a Norton avatar?!?
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Old 02-05-12, 12:43 PM   #1364
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Originally Posted by DaHaMac View Post
On Friday January 3rd a $22.00 Schwinn Helmet saved me from a cracked skull and a scalping. It seems that I hit a dog at about 20mph and flipped both the bike and I. I still had a mild concussion but the helmet took the brunt of the damage. Although my shoulder is separated, my ribs severely bruised, and I have some decent road rash; I am still able to walk and talk thanks to wearing a helmet. I think I'll mount the helmet like a trophy!
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Old 02-05-12, 02:33 PM   #1365
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Originally Posted by DaHaMac View Post
On Friday January 3rd a $22.00 Schwinn Helmet saved me from a cracked skull and a scalping. It seems that I hit a dog at about 20mph and flipped both the bike and I. I still had a mild concussion but the helmet took the brunt of the damage. Although my shoulder is separated, my ribs severely bruised, and I have some decent road rash; I am still able to walk and talk thanks to wearing a helmet. I think I'll mount the helmet like a trophy!
Wow, no one's taking you up on this. OK, so:

You don't know and can't claim that your helmet saved you from a cracked skull.
You don't know and can't claim that your helmet saved you from a scalping.
If the accident happened as you say it did, then chances are good when you hit the ground with your helmet, it was beyond tested design parameters of the helmet.
Helmets do not help with concussion.
Your continued ability to walk and talk probably has very little to do with any protection your helmet did offer.

-however-

The helmet haterz can't say it didn't help, maybe even in exactly the way you claim.
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Old 02-05-12, 04:04 PM   #1366
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Wow, no one's taking you up on this. OK, so:

You don't know and can't claim that your helmet saved you from a cracked skull.
You don't know and can't claim that your helmet saved you from a scalping.
If the accident happened as you say it did, then chances are good when you hit the ground with your helmet, it was beyond tested design parameters of the helmet.
Helmets do not help with concussion.
Your continued ability to walk and talk probably has very little to do with any protection your helmet did offer.

-however-

The helmet haterz can't say it didn't help, maybe even in exactly the way you claim.
+1
This exactly. The crash sounds like it was beyond the design conditions of the helmet, so you can't say for certain if it did you any good at all. Likewise, no one can say it did you no good. However, if you had concussion I'd get it checked out asap.
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Old 02-06-12, 01:56 AM   #1367
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I would especially note that the helmet didn't stop a concussion.
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Old 02-06-12, 07:22 AM   #1368
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I would especially note that the helmet didn't stop a concussion.
Why is this noteworthy? They are not expected, tested, or built to stop concussions.
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Old 02-06-12, 08:03 AM   #1369
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While I don't know about all the fancy design parameters, I do know that the helmet was severely gouged where it slid on the asphalt while still securely attached to my head. Those gouges represent abrasions of such a nature that I am confident that I would have lost hair and scalp without the hard plastic of the helmet. The fact that the outer plastic liner and inner styrofoam is split indicates sufficient force to crack a human skull--imho but no I don't have empirical evidence and I'm glad that I am not part of the experiment without a helmet. BTW, nothing short of a HANS device has a hope of stopping a concussion since a concussion occurs when our brains bounced around inside our skull.

I'll be getting the police report soon and hopefully be able to contact the eyewitness who saw the incident.

I can't wait to ride my bicycles again and you can be sure that I will be wearing a helmet.
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Old 02-06-12, 09:57 AM   #1370
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The fact that the outer plastic liner and inner styrofoam is split indicates sufficient force to crack a human skull--imho but no I don't have empirical evidence and I'm glad that I am not part of the experiment without a helmet.
I have no issue with the other points you make, but you might want to check this out http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html before you jump to the conclusion that your helmet prevented a cracked skull. I'm not saying it didn't, I'm just offering information.
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Old 02-06-12, 12:37 PM   #1371
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Why is this noteworthy? They are not expected, tested, or built to stop concussions.
Tell that to the folks rolling around expecting otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHaMac View Post
While I don't know about all the fancy design parameters, I do know that the helmet was severely gouged where it slid on the asphalt while still securely attached to my head. Those gouges represent abrasions of such a nature that I am confident that I would have lost hair and scalp without the hard plastic of the helmet.
No doubt.
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Old 02-06-12, 05:48 PM   #1372
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DaHa

Watch all the anti helmet trolls pile on to your accident and tell you that you are entirely wrong. They just cant stand anyone saying a helmet did it job!!!!!!
I note that anyone claiming a helmet may have worsened their injuries will be on the receiving end of your insults, but anyone who claims a helmet saved his life is a messiah to you.

That may even be sillier than your insult-filled tirades about cyclists needing to be civil to each other.
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Old 02-07-12, 11:06 AM   #1373
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Im still waiting for a "true life adventure" of how wearing a helmet killed someone.
You seem to look for a compelling reason not to wear a bike helmet. I'm doing the opposite... i'm waiting for a compelling reason to wear one (and haven't found one yet).
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Old 02-07-12, 01:56 PM   #1374
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The crash sounds like it was beyond the design conditions of the helmet
That's probably jumping the gun without data to work from. What standard was his helmet tested to? What was his head's speed, acceleration, and angle when it hit the ground?

Quote:
I have no issue with the other points you make, but you might want to check this out http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html before you jump to the conclusion that your helmet prevented a cracked skull. I'm not saying it didn't, I'm just offering information.
One big problem with that page: they offer only one external source for their assertions (before they start making a general--and rather hokey--argument against helmet effectiveness). Better to link to a peer-reviewed scientific study or at least something with concrete data.
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Old 02-07-12, 02:16 PM   #1375
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You seem to look for a compelling reason not to wear a bike helmet. I'm doing the opposite... i'm waiting for a compelling reason to wear one (and haven't found one yet).
I don't know if this counts as compelling, but these conclusions of some formal meta-analyses and general surveys of helmet studies might be interesting:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...ic_Crash_5.pdf:

Quote:
This formal summarisation of studies of individual cyclists in various settings has confirmed
the clear benefits of helmets in terms of injury risk. The upper bounds of the 95% confidence
intervals provide conservative risk reduction estimates of at least 45% for head injury, 33%
for brain injury, 27% for facial injury and 29% for fatal injury.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/rmd/project.as...rojectID=10083:

Quote:
The critical review of the extensive literature concludes that there is a considerable amount of scientific evidence that bicycle helmets are effective at reducing the incidence and severity of head, brain and upper facial injury.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01457500000488:

Quote:
Based on studies from several countries published in the period 1987–1998, the summary odds ratio estimate for efficacy is 0.40 (95% confidence interval 0.29, 0.55) for head injury, 0.42 (0.26, 0.67) for brain injury, 0.53 (0.39, 0.73) for facial injury and 0.27 (0.10, 0.71) for fatal injury. This indicates a statistically significant protective effect of helmets.
(but see http://www.cycle-helmets.com/elvik.pdf for a different interpretation of the data)

http://www.thecochranelibrary.com/us...d/CD001855.pdf :

Quote:
Wearing a helmet dramatically reduces the risk of head and facial injuries for bicyclists involved in a crash, even if it involves a motor vehicle. ...Helmet use reduces the risk of head injury by 85%, brain injury by 88% and severe brain injury by at least 75%. The protective effect of helmets for facial injury is 65% for the upper and mid facial regions. No protection is provided for the lower face and jaw.
http://depts.washington.edu/hiprc/pr...meteffect.html :

Quote:
In all studies reviewed, there are consistent data indicating that wearing an industry-approved bicycle helmet significantly reduces the risk of head injury during a crash or collision. The reduction in risk is somewhat dependent on whether the controls originate from the emergency department or the population at large. However, population-based controls provide the best estimate of helmet effectiveness and allow it greatest generalizability. Overall, helmets decrease the risk of head and brain injury by 70 to 88 percent and facial injury to the upper and mid face by 65 percent.
http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheet...le_helmets.pdf :

Quote:
Research has shown that a bicycle helmet provides protection against serious head and brain injury. The best estimates that are presently available indicate that the use of bicycle helmets decreases the risk proportion of sustaining or not sustaining head injury by 42%, that of sustaining or not sustaining brain injury by 53%, that of sustaining or not sustaining facial injury by17%, whereas the odds ratio for sustaining or not sustaining does on the other hand increase by 32%.

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