chasm54

You persist in missing the point. Don't you think that her best policy might have been to cross at the correct angle? In other words, wouldn't better skills have more effectively protected her from injury?

Drummerboy1975

Better skills are always a good thing, but accidents happen. Sometimes they are unavoidable.

What if your going through a green light at an intersection and someone runs their red light? I guess its ok not to be wearing your seatbelt because you have mad driving skills and can avoid that too?

You know, I did dumb things and took silly risks when I was younger. I'm 37 and have a wife and kids that depend on me to make it to my job everday. How selfish would it be of me to not wear a helmet while out riding a bike, something I enjoy as a luxury and do not have to do, have a wreck, be off work for who knows how long and possibly suffer irreversible damage to myself, just because I didn't wear a helmet?

You know, if you don't wang to wear a helmet fine, but knock someone who does. We don't mock, make fun of, or ask you condescending queations as to why you feel the need not to wear one.

chasm54

The evidence suggests that seatbelts save lives. The evidence suggests that bicycle helmets don't.

Actually, this is not true, in general. One of the main reasons that this thread and its predecessors has such longevity is the tendency of helmet evangelists to make insulting remarks and abuse the intelligence of those who choose not to wear them.

I'm not trying to patronise you. Wear a helmet if you want to. If you fall off it may save you some pain. But please don't wear it in the belief that it will save you if you are hit by a car. That is very unlikely. And doing everything possible to avoid being hit by a car, including practising defensive riding and bike-handling skills, is overwhelmingly the most important thing you can do to keep yourself safe.

Rx Rider

actually "you" do mock, make fun of and ask condescending questions as to why "we" need to wear one. maybe you've missed the last 79 pages. but that's okay because most of "you" have made valid points as to why "we" should be wearing one. children especially should wear one because they're likely to hit their head in a fall. But cracking a helmet in a low-speed fall proves nothing other than helmets are designed to break and people don't know what their arms are for.
I watched a fellow fall over to the side because he wasn't moving but .25 -.5 mph. he was a mess. I had to laugh at him, because as he's falling, his hands remained on the handlebar and his feet stayed on the pedals. he made zero effort to put a leg down or ANYTHING. grown men and women should know how to deal with gravity without using their heads. helmets won't protect your feelings.

Drummerboy1975

"I" haven't mocked anyone thank you very much.

Six jours

So it looks like the short answer is that you aren't doing anything for your safety other than wearing the foam hat. This is so unbelievably short sighted that I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Rx Rider

I didn't say you, I said "you", the collective that you referred to in the quote "We don't mock, make fun of, or ask you condescending questions as to why you feel the need not to wear one."
you can't speak for the "we" and then claim you're not part of them.

and you haven't mocked anyone, didn't mean to pick on you.

Drummerboy1975

Why are you asking me that redundant question? Of course I'm doing everything for my safety, I love me!

I start by promoting safety, not only through words but through my actions. Don't you realized that when motorist see a cyclist wearing a helmet, wearing brighg clothing, and or lights, that they are more prone to giving you more ro when passing?

Why are you so short sighted that you can't even read the title of this post which is THE HELMET THREAD.

Six jours

I'm asking because you won't answer - which I expected, and which I'm using to illustrate my argument that people like you put all your eggs in one basket and ignore all the other things you could/should be doing, assuming safety is actually your goal.

Besides that, the "it's a helmet thread only" argument was stupid when Ryda was making it, and the passage of time hasn't made it any smarter.

Drummerboy1975

I just answered your question. Now, you answer it as well please.

Rx Rider

you make a good point, helmet nayzees from either side should be aware of the topic.

why can't they make a helmet that looks like a fedora? i'd wear one of those because of coarse the only reason I don't wear one is because of my vanity, and I should look great in a fedora so problem solved!

Six jours

When I started riding with a racing club, decades ago, every club ride started with a few minutes of informal drills - just bumping drills and "picking up the water bottle" while waiting for everyone to show up. That was a near-universal practice back when we didn't have foam helmets to lull us into a false sense of security.

When I started track racing those drills were formalized, and when I retired from racing and started teaching and coaching track riders, I incorporated drills into every session. These ranged from simple stuff for absolute beginners (riding with one hand and no hands, touching the ground from the saddle, etc) to intermediate drills (elbow and shoulder bumping, touching wheels, etc.) to advanced stuff for racers (steering the rider in front of you by pushing on his rear wheel with your front wheel, shoving with head against hip, etc). And of course, no track racer of the time would have been allowed on the track without a firm understanding of the need for constant situational awareness; "building a picture" of your surroundings and continually updating it so that you're never caught by surprise.

That's all in addition to the "goofing around" like no-hands track stands, "slow races" on the banking, riding backwards and such, which while admittedly silly still serves a valuable purpose in helping the rider to understand handling at the limits.

And of course most folks raced the winter cyclocross seasons as well, which certainly teaches one about handling a road bike in slippery conditions.

But hey, you don't need all that nonsense. You've got a foam hat and "bright clothing".

Drummerboy1975

If you truly have done all of these things you say you have, then why are you so negative and against helmets? And if you arent against helmets but more for general safety, what gives you the right to chastise me for not laying my complete safety regiment out for you? Just because I haven't told you my deepest, most inner thoughts on everything that which is cycling safety, doesnt make me any less safer of a rider than you, and it absolutely doesn't mean that I put my life simply in the hands of a foam hat and bright clothing.

Drummerboy1975

WTF, over.

Six jours

Jesus wept.

Rx Rider

seriously a fedora bike helmet would be so cool. and whatever happened to those shark helmet covers? personally I like bright shiny things, including streamers and kits.

I once drove past an older kid riding his bike in a blizzard. he was making great time but when he biffed all that speed went right into the ground, face first. I know a helmet would have been a great help to him had he been wearing one. he still would have been plenty messed up with a helmet but he was mangled without one.

as for a bike safety tip for everybody. try falling out of the chair you're sitting in without hurting yourself, or at least not hitting your head. then move up to a bar stool, once you've learned how to fall, you shouldn't be hitting your head, (so much).
until then I want to see some serious wheelie training.

Drummerboy1975

How about we conduct a simple test? Let's have you wear a helmet and then I'll raise an aluminum baseball bat over my head ad hit you with of my mite square in the head. Lets he how that works.

Then, for the second part of the test we will conduct the same experiment, sans the helmet

hagen2456

That is in no way similar to most of the impacts you're likely to get if you crash with more than 5-7 mph. Which is exactly why helmets are of very limited benefit, if any, to most adults.

rydabent

The anti helmet group keeps ignoring the simple fact that in the last 10 years helmet use is up and cyclist deaths are down. This comes from the national safety council.

That one fact trumps all the "studies" and self serving reports quoted by the anti helmet group. Why they keep up their blather is beyond me.

jjamesstrk

This assumption that whatever fracture the helmet experiences would have been equivalently manifest in the rider's skull is one of the first misconceptions you'll have to shake if you want to have an informed discussion about any non-superstitious purpose for wearing helmets.

Helmets are intended to prevent brain injury the same way a crunch zone in a car is intended to prevent your heart from slamming into your rib cage. The helmet would be crushed if it saved someone from a brain injury (which happens when your brain moves in relation to your skull). If the helmet cracked it probably just saved her from a goose egg, but probably not a concussion.

And ice cream consumption causes violent crime? Hospitals kill people? Correlation isn't causation. Why are you trusting this "fact" more than peer reviewed research? Do you get your medicine from a doctor or a shaman?

Drummerboy1975

So in other words, the helmet took the brunt of the impact, rather than her head? Thank you for proving my point.

jjamesstrk

Your point was that her helmet saved her from serious injury or worse. My point was that it likely saved her from a non-serious injury at worse. Unless you're changing your point to helmets being the best practice to avoid nicks an buises? If this is your argument for helmet use do you ride with knee pads also?

CB HI

Since this was such a devastating crash in which the helmet saved her life, why did her unprotected knee not shatter into a thousand fragments?

Rx Rider

had there been any brunt, the impact would have turned the helmet into popcorn, until that happens there is no proof that any head injury would have occurred, let alone a brain damaging one.
helmets stick out up to three inches from the skull, that's enough space to turn 'I hit my helmet' into, 'I missed my head'. a cracked helmet just shows how flimsy they are made. learn how to fall and you'll rarely need a helmet, learn how to not fall and . . .

Rx Rider

. . .and 2000 posts later nobody has changed their mind's about helmets.