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The helmet thread

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View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
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I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
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5.63%
I've always worn a helmet
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I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
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24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
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The helmet thread

Old 04-23-12, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rx Rider
had there been any brunt, the impact would have turned the helmet into popcorn, until that happens there is no proof that any head injury would have occurred, let alone a brain damaging one.
helmets stick out up to three inches from the skull, that's enough space to turn 'I hit my helmet' into, 'I missed my head'. a cracked helmet just shows how flimsy they are made. learn how to fall and you'll rarely need a helmet, learn how to not fall and . . .
Learn how to fall? Really? Thats like telling someone "learn how to wreck you car". All falls, like all wrecks, are different. And generally you don't have enough time to "remeber how to fall".

Thats asinine.
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Old 04-23-12, 06:51 PM
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wait, all falls are different but you don't have time to put your arm or leg out, generally? because it's hard to remember, just use your head to stop yourself.

and once again someone is foolishly trying to make a car and a bike the same damn thing. if that's the only way to prove your point, then you need to convince every driver in America to wear a helmet, because after all, riding a bike and driving a car is exactly the same.

Last edited by Rx Rider; 04-23-12 at 09:40 PM. Reason: stop drop and roll
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Old 04-23-12, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
Learn how to fall? Really? Thats like telling someone "learn how to wreck you car". All falls, like all wrecks, are different. And generally you don't have enough time to "remeber how to fall".

Thats asinine.
Try your lack of logic in a judo or karate class.
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Old 04-23-12, 09:04 PM
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At the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, world class bicycle racers are put through tumbling classes to learn how to fall. Or at least they were in my day.

Drummerboy doubtless won't believe it. Or maybe he'll just threaten to attack me with a baseball bat. At this point, I can scarcely imagine what he might say next.
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Old 04-24-12, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
Learn how to fall? Really? Thats like telling someone "learn how to wreck you car". All falls, like all wrecks, are different. And generally you don't have enough time to "remeber how to fall".

Thats asinine.
You absolutely do not know what you are talking about. The reason one practises something is precisely so that one doesn't have to think about it, it becomes automatic - a learned reflex.

Your posts in this thread illustrate precisely what exasperates me about many of those who insist on helmets. You place too much faith in a helmet, which on all the evidence can afford you only very limited protection, and dismiss the notion that you could, by learning how to ride a bike, give yourself a level of security that your helmet can never provide.

Last edited by chasm54; 04-24-12 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 04-24-12, 05:53 AM
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I'm not an olympic cyclist, as I'm sure many on here are not. Many of us will not be practicing falling. But I do ride about 80 miles a week. How much much do all of you anti helmet trolls ride. Be honest.And yes, I said trolls.
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Old 04-24-12, 08:55 AM
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I did 63m hogback (3 reservoirs) miles on sunday, top speed 54 mph.
I did 47m hogback miles on saturday, top speed 44 mph
I need to ride to boulder county tomorrow and back, round trip around 75 miles. but those are front range miles so I'll be lucky to hit 40 mph.
I average 1000 miles a month in good weather, usually never with a helmet.
I'll be lucky to get 400 miles a month in winter, usually with a helmet.
but don't feel bad 80 miles a week is a nice start.
I assume you meant I was one of these trolls you speak of.
I'm guessing you never had a chance to play on a trampoline as a kid, wonderful way to learn how to fall without hitting your head, those trampolines are . . .

Last edited by Rx Rider; 04-25-12 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 04-24-12, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Rx Rider
I did 63m hogback (3 reservoirs) miles on sunday, top speed 54 mph.
I did 47m hogback miles on saturday, top speed 44 mph
I need to ride to boulder county tomorrow and back, round trip around 75 miles. but those are front range miles so I'll be lucky to hit 40 mph.
I average 1000 miles a month in good weather, usually never with a helmet.
I'll be lucky to get 400 miles a month in winter, usually with a helmet.
but don't feel bad 80 miles a week is a nice start.
I assume you meant I was one of these trolls you speak of because everyone else seems to have been smart enough to unsubscribe from this waste of time.

I'm guessing you never had a chance to play on a trampoline as a kid, wonderful way to learn how to fall without hitting your head, those trampolines are . . .
Wait, you wear a helmet in the winter? But why? Because the grounds harder?

Did your Olympic trainers not teach you how to fall in ice and snow?

I will agree with you on one point, this is a usless thread worthy of unsubscription.
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Old 04-24-12, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
Wait, you wear a helmet in the winter? But why? Because the grounds harder?
Did your Olympic trainers not teach you how to fall in ice and snow?
as I said I'm not anti-helmet, I am non-helmet. something I think nearly everyone on the darkside has mentioned,but to no comprehension.

how many times have you read mention of situational awareness or know your surroundings? doesn't ring a bell?
I wear a helmet in winter because of low light conditions and the added visibility a helmet affords. I wear a helmet in winter because of black ice and packed snow. remember the situation that you're s'pose to be aware of?

the one time I will absolutely positively wear a helmet is if I'm going to be riding with 20 other cyclists for any length of time. because 1-20 doesn't understand how to maneuver a bike at slow speeds. 1-20 doesn't understand how to maneuver a bike at moderate speed. and 5-20 usually doesn't understand that bike riding is as much an upper body workout as it is a lower body workout.
so 20+ riders is a situation that requires one to take the extra steps to minimize a low / moderate speed incident where a helmet would actually help.
and you've confused me with another as far as being an olympic hopeful, I don't believe track racing occurs on snow and ice, but if that's how you intend to debate this subject, you shouldn't be calling others "a troll".
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Old 04-24-12, 09:55 AM
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So what happens on a nice summer day, it's 70 degrees, birds are single, your tooling along helmetless, and a dog runs right out in front of you less than a few feet away? You tell me not to reley solely on a helmet but your relying on your falling abilities.....
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Old 04-24-12, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
So what happens on a nice summer day, it's 70 degrees, birds are single, your tooling along helmetless, and a dog runs right out in front of you less than a few feet away? You tell me not to reley solely on a helmet but your relying on your falling abilities.....
Again, at speeds above c. 13 mph, helmets seem to have no significant effect. Apparently because any protection it may give the head as such is outweighed by the harm it may cause to the neck and in other ways due to rotational forces. It may seem counter-intuitional, but that goes for the shape of the Earth, too

I'd like to remind you that the fatality rate among pros in the TdF, the Giro etc. has been steady through the last many many years, and that helmets do not seem to have made any change in it.
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Old 04-24-12, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
So what happens on a nice summer day, it's 70 degrees, birds are single, your tooling along helmetless, and a dog runs right out in front of you less than a few feet away? You tell me not to reley solely on a helmet but your relying on your falling abilities.....
Online spelling and grammar checkers will fix most of that. You might try https://www.spellchecker.net/grammar/.

I couldn't find a logic checker, though, so you're still on your own there. And what unmarried birds have to do with any of it is beyond me.
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Old 04-24-12, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Six jours
I couldn't find a logic checker, though, so you're still on your own there. And what unmarried birds have to do with any of it is beyond me.
the tooling around on a sunny day part was logical, but how the dog materialized out of thin air didn't make much sense. usually a dog has to run from some place to get to where its right in front of you "feet away". if you don't notice there's a running animal on your sunny bike ride maybe you should be more aware of your surroundings. I dunno.
those of you that still worry about fido or fluffy instantly appearing right in front of you, I suggest you scream as loud as you can and pull a wheelie, or at least pull up on the handlebar as you're hitting the critter.
more than a few feet away? change to braking, steering away and screaming. not necessarily in that order.
I wasn't going to mention the single birds thing, different plumage than the married ones?
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Old 04-25-12, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI
Try your lack of logic in a judo or karate class.
i have yet to catch air in an urban traffic setting, but i can honestly say that high school and college judo experience softened many a landing in my mountain biking days (most of the 90's) without a helmet.
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Old 04-25-12, 06:16 PM
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Day 17,500 (roughly) of riding a bike with no helmet...and still prettier than most of ya'll.
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Old 04-25-12, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Day 17,500 (roughly) of riding a bike with no helmet...and still prettier than most of ya'll.
only when you wear heels.
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Old 04-25-12, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
I'm not an olympic cyclist, as I'm sure many on here are not. Many of us will not be practicing falling. But I do ride about 80 miles a week. How much much do all of you anti helmet trolls ride. Be honest.And yes, I said trolls.
You really want to play the mileage card. Stupid move since a large number of cyclist here will easily top you.

Bare minimum mileage in a week is 150 miles. My high end weekly commuting mileage was 290 miles per week with a 60-100 mile recreational ride on Sunday. Let us know when you manage to do a 390 mile week.

Let me know when your total mileage exceeds 300,000 miles.

Many of us took tumbling in grade school gym class. I take it that you did not qualify for the show "Are you smarter than a fifth grader".
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Old 04-25-12, 06:49 PM
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I ride infinity+1 miles a week so nyah!
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Old 04-25-12, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RGNY
i have yet to catch air in an urban traffic setting, but i can honestly say that high school and college judo experience softened many a landing in my mountain biking days (most of the 90's) without a helmet.
Some guys here fall more often on the road than most of us ever fall mountain biking.

Check out bluefoxicy, a new cyclist that read Sheldon's braking page and thinks he is a very experienced cyclist, so bluefoxicy decided to ONLY use the front brake and never touch the back brake unless the front cable broke. He kept crashing and still insisted that he knew how to brake better than the rest of us and that his post to other new cyclist was the best advice.
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Old 04-25-12, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI
Some guys here fall more often on the road than most of us ever fall mountain biking.

Sheldon's braking page . . . ONLY use the front brake and never touch the back brake unless the front cable broke. He kept crashing and still insisted that he knew how to brake better than the rest of us and that his post to other new cyclist was the best advice.
Sheldon actually recommends not using the rear brake? my MTB bad habits have me braking 60% back-40% front,
seems I do everything wrong.
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Old 04-25-12, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI
Some guys here fall more often on the road than most of us ever fall mountain biking.

Check out bluefoxicy, a new cyclist that read Sheldon's braking page and thinks he is a very experienced cyclist, so bluefoxicy decided to ONLY use the front brake and never touch the back brake unless the front cable broke. He kept crashing and still insisted that he knew how to brake better than the rest of us and that his post to other new cyclist was the best advice.
ah, i was just commenting that learning to fall -might- help lessen the severity of a fall. not that it made you a better rider or as part of the helmet issue. just a good skill to have.

i wear a helmet, mostly to appease my wife. personally i think they are great for a small range of occurrences, but i'm sure i'll be glad if/when my turn comes. but, i'd go without a helmet long before i'd go without eye protection.....
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Old 04-25-12, 09:32 PM
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Just today on the River Trail, which is our major cycling path here, on a section of the path that is heavily wooded, I pass an older gentalmen. Right after passing him I heard a rustling coming at me from the woods, just then a huge Golden Retriever, sans a leash mind you, jumps onto the path right in front of me. Luckily for us both I quickly reacted, applying my rear brakes and swerving to miss him.

That how dogs materialized out of thin air.

There are many occurrences everytime I go riding. That was just one that happened today. Some women decided to stop on horses at the end of a bridge that we were approching and just sat there while we rounded a corner, not moving for us. That could have been bad.

Then a Hispanic family that spoke very little english were spread out across the bike path with zero organization as we approach at a good rate of speed. There was no way, even in proper spanish, to get the whole grouo organized and out of the way in time, so we all had to come to a complete stop, unclip and ease around them.

You see, theres just so much that can go wrong, why not just wear a helmet? It's not hurting anything. I don't think anyone has been injured because they had on a helemet.

There are two types of riders, those who've fallen, and those whom haven't fallen yet. It's not about relying solely on your helmet. I also use skill and knowledge to stay safe. But I do like knowing that just in case the Law of Probability catches up to me one sunny day while I'm out tooling around and some ninja dog mysteriously vaporizes right before my eyes on the bike path, if lady luck not be with ,me, I had in helmet.
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Old 04-26-12, 06:52 AM
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Hey, you, Drummerboy - you apparently didn't read my reply to you, so here you are: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post14138809
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Old 04-26-12, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975

You see, theres just so much that can go wrong, why not just wear a helmet? It's not hurting anything. I don't think anyone has been injured because they had on a helemet.
You are almost certainly wrong about that.

The figures seem to show that increasing use of helmets has not resulted in a reduction in the already low rate of injuries to cyclists. Now, I'm not so foolish as to believe that helmets never prevent injuries, so how are the figures to be accounted for? It can only be that either helmeted riders are more likely to have accidents than they were when nobody wore helmets, or that in some cases helmets give rise to injuries that wouldn't have been sustained by the unhelmeted.

Neither of these propositions is ridculous. It's quite likely that there is a degree of risk compensation involved, either on the part of drivers or cyclists or both. It's well documented in many areas of human behaviour that those who feel protected behave ore dangerously than those who don't. Add to that the fact that people overestimate the protective effect of helmets, and underestimate the importance of skills training, and it is quite possible that the adoption of helmets has increased the frequency with which people fall off.

And the injuries that really do damage to your brain are rotational. Your head is dragged round and your brain bounces around inside your skull. There is real possibility that helmets can make these injuries more likely. First, your head is a bigger target with a helmet on, you are likely to sustain glancing blows that would have missed your head. More important, the helmet will create friction with whatever it hits and tend to pull your head around. One of the good things about scalps is that they don't do this, they tend to tear and your head slides rather than rotates. Messy and unpleasant, but better for the brain.

None of this is demonstrable beyond reasonable doubt on the evidence we have before us. So you are free to regard it sceptically. But then you still have to answer the question, how come more helmet-wearers doesn't translate into fewer injuries?
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Old 04-26-12, 07:37 AM
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I think the reason there aren't less injuries is due to the fact that through statistics we are are only learning of the major accidents rather than the minor ones where had the rider not been wearing a helmet, it would have been more serious, but since they were wearing their helmet, they weren't seriously injured, didn't need much if any medical care, and it never got reported.
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