3alarmer 

....I got a chance to speak with her. She says you're a big disappointment in the sack, and not to call. Stay classy.

rekmeyata

I understand what you're saying, however by bowing down to them doesn't get them off your back, they will find more and more regulations to strap you with because they know you will continue to bow to them. So by bowing down to them they increase the pressure of being on your back, it has the direct opposite effect you're trying to achieve.

Six jours

Sure. But if it's some low speed affair that results in a simple fall then it is not really much different than a simple fall caused by something other than a car. Which, statistically, makes it extremely unlikely to be fatal.

Cycling deaths are overwhelmingly by high speed interactions with automobiles. Believing that helmets are at all helpful in those situations is akin to believing in the tooth fairy.

njkayaker

You actually don't know this (it's not actually true: it could be significantly worse than a "simple" fall, whatever you mean by "simple"). You are just making stuff up.

??? So, you think helmets are only supposed to prevent fatalities. Bizarre.

I don't think I've ever seen a good compilation of all cyclist deaths. The statistics of cyclist deaths associated with automobiles is easy to find (https://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811743.pdf).

Here's a reference to "almost 800" total (presumably) cyclist deaths in 2010: https://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Bicycle/ The number of cyclist deaths involving other vehicles in 2010 is 623 (78%). I'll stipulate that that is "overwhelming".

About 30% (2011) deaths occurred in the evening and 23% (2011) had cyclists with BAC of .08 g/dL. I don't have the numbers at hand but I recall that many of the cyclists who are killed weren't wearing helmets.

You have no basis for the claim that helmets would not have saved some of them.

Who here is making that claim? Looks Iike another straw man.

Aj Mick

Cycling to get around since 1961, and have never worn a helmet. Would wear one if I was into competitive cycling. Looks like i will be required to wear one when I return to the land I was born in, New Zealand. It has become the law since I last lived there….. click on the link.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8427624.stm

Angelikadq

Hi there, when you discuss so heat about the helmet wearing habits, I would like to know how do you choose your helmet light for night riding? You know, there are so many lights in the market, I am so confused by a various of lights brand, like Lupine, Light & motion, moon light, lezyne and others. Should I take a high lumen light for my helmet or? I start my riding some months ago and have no idea about it. Recently I saw some introduction about Xeccon Spiker lights, how about its quality?

martl

As a cyclist, you will always be the weaker part of any kind of crash, and the headgear you chose to wear is going to change nothing with that, ever.
More safety for cyclists is a desirable goal, but focussing on dresscode is the wrong way to start.

vol

Exactly. So many cyclists have been killed despite wearing helmets, thanks to careless/aggressive/impaired drivers, faulty road conditions, failure to use bike lights at night, violating traffic rules, etc., etc.. And for those whose philosophy is, "It's always safer to wear a helmet than not, and why not since it does no harm?", why don't you also wear a body armor, since it could have saved some lives and "does no harm", either? It could make you much more injury-proof.

rekmeyata

Please, get over this already, this has been repeated around 100 times and you go over the same old boring schit again that has been proven to be faulty thinking the same 100 times.

I wish the moderator would close this thread, how many times and how many ways can one argue helmets are good or helmets are bad? This is falken ridiculas.

MODS...CLOSE THIS THREAD!

vol

So why do you continue to come here and post? I visit this place only a handful times in my life so far, yet have seen many a post by you here.

350htrr

People on the pro-helmet side come here to try and make people think about the consequences of not wearing a helmet compared to when you wear one, if people are thinking of not wearing one... Will a helmet save your life in every crash? Certainly not... BUT, on average, wearing a helmet results in a "better" (or not as bad) outcome when things happen... JMO as I have experienced in my life...

Six jours

Well, no. People on the "pro-helmet" side come here to try to force everyone else to conform to their beliefs, and when that fails, call names. And now, apparently, to demand that the discussion not be allowed at all.

3alarmer 

....listen carefully, we have the following list of twelve demands. None are negotiable.

mconlonx

I'm vaguely pro-helmet, and I come here to poke holes in the arguments of both sides. It's fun. Too easy to rile up the fanatics. FWIW, I put people like Rekmeyata, Rydabent, and NJKayaker in the same category as Meanwhile, closetbiker, razrskytr, skye, etc.--fanatics who will distort facts to make a point and whose views should be thoroughly discounted; silly people.

rydabent

six

You are so wrong. Im not trying to "force" anyone to wear a helmet. Nor am I for MHLs. Im only pointing out that ANY injury that is prevented by a helmet is a good thing.

rekmeyata

You don't have much of a point in regards to the helmet thing do you? So what does it matter to you how often I come on this forum? I didn't know you were the forum ruler and can tell others how often they come. What? you have no place to come and beach so you come here?

njkayaker

Your reading abilty is pretty awful. I haven't made any claims about how well helmets work. No one really knows. And I don't care whether people wear helmets or not.

Maybe, you are whinging about me pointing out that your claim that bicycle safety classes would be more useful is contradicted by your experience that people don't take them even if they were free!

FBinNY 

I'm not a helmet wearer, but have never tried to talk folks out of helmets.

One unfortunate feature of the helmet thread is that it merges two completely concepts into one thread.

Helmet wearers should have a forum where they can discuss various helmets, comfort, features, weight, level of protection, etc. There are many products out there, and they can exchange ideas including things like which helmets fit which shaped heads best. There shouldn't be discussion of whether helmets are needed since that decision has already been made in the affirmative.

Then there should be a separate thread where we can discuss, debate, or argue issues such as whether helmets are really necessary, the extent to which they save lives, whether must wear laws make sense, etc.

Folks who are committed helmet wearers should stay off this thread, or at least refrain from the "a helmet saved my life..." proselytizing. However, those who feel must laws make sense would be free to discuss that.

vol

See my edited version above and the reason for editing.

What injury prevented by what is not a good thing? (Such as injury prevented by a body armor or bullet vest?)

Last post to this thread: I think that had there been no suggestion to make wearing helmet a requirement to all, this thread and the debate would not have started.

MMACH 5

Except that would be a one-sided debate. The people posting to this thread who argue for MHLs is miniscule.
If it's part of the debate, why isn't it part of the poll? I'd honestly like to see a poll on who actually does want MHLs. Unfortunately, the thread it would be attached to would just get rolled into this monster thread and the poll data wiped.

njkayaker

The antihelmet crowd here has shown no real ability to discuss this. They often use the same tactics that they criticise the prohelmet crowd for using.

And nearly no one here is for "must wear laws".

The antihelmet crowd just assumes that people who think helmets are useful are for such laws. I guess they do that because it's easier to argue against that strawman.

njkayaker

Yes, people somewhere have argued for (and passed) mandatory helmet laws (MHL). People (like closetbiker) assume that people who are prohelmet are for MHL. That's a false assumption.

If I recall correclly, there was such a poll a long while ago (I inspired it). If I recall correctly, it indicated that very, very few people here were for MHL.

FBinNY 

I don't believe that most helmet wearers would push for must wear laws, but I doubt that many would speak against them. The process by which this kind of law gets passed isn't always logical. It's hard to argue against any feel good, or safety laws as it is. With any proposed law we have people who push for, those actively against, and a vast body of people who are agnostic because the law wouldn't affect them either way. In the case of helmet laws, these would include those who don't ride bikes at all, and those who already wear helmets. So in that context, it would only take pressure or support from a small segment of the population to convince a legislator that his bread is buttered on the "yes" side.

However you missed the intent of my post. That wasn't to make the helmet thread any less acrimonious, but to give helmet wearers a "cleaner" forum to discuss helmets form the standpoint of those who chose to wear them already. Every once in a while buried here is some rational discussion of helmet design improvements. It would be nice to see them not so buried.

njkayaker

This isn't really a good argument. It's very, very common to prioritize head injuries over other injuries. Also, there are large costs "body armor/bullet vests" for the benefits they provide.

njkayaker

This could be true (I don't know).

The problem is that an anti-helmet argument isn't going to be convincing if it keeps assuming that the person it is trying to convince holds an opinion that they do not hold.

No, I got your point (I don't disagree with it).

Such a thread would devolve into the thread that already exists because most of the antihelmet people it would atttract have no ability or interest in having a real discussion about this.

Keep in mind that the mods here have a lot of experience with this. It's also a problem that occurs elsewhere.

The point of creating this cesspool is that this discussion can't be kept from being a cesspool and having one cesspool to manage is just easier than letting a thousand cesspools bloom!