Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 61
  1. #1
    Skidmaster teadoggg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    don walker, redline, TBD
    Posts
    1,627
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I started a pretty good thread yesterday talking about why I'm opposed to Critical Mass. Since I don't want to be one of those people to complains about a problem but does not offer any alternatives, I'm starting this thread.

    What are some feasible alternatives to critical mass (including changing the style of the Mass) that still promote cycling as an alternate form of transportation, and raise awarness to the unjust treatment of cyclists in general?

    There were some great ideas in the "why i'm against critical mass" and to increase exposure, let's discuss those here.

  2. #2
    Not a senior! townandcountry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    My Bikes
    Felt 85
    Posts
    285
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Get involved with your local bike club. My club works with a couple of school districts, teaching bicycling skills and basic mechanics. Those kids are going to be our leaders someday. Teach them the right skills for road riding and safety and maybe, at some point, there won't be a need for "critical mass".

  3. #3
    Skidmaster teadoggg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    don walker, redline, TBD
    Posts
    1,627
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We need to offer alternatives to the current style of critical mass. In the ďwhy Iím against critical massĒ thread, someone suggested a mass that was in a single line, in the bike lane (if one is available) and follows all of the traffic laws. We need to take the confrontational aspect out of the mass (i.e. by not blatantly ignoring traffic lights, holding up traffic by standing in front of a line of cars and defiantly raising our bikes above our head, etc). It was also suggested that we increase the frequency of the mass, maybe holding two smaller masses every month, or even one every week, that observe all traffic laws. The nice thing about that is it spreads out the exposure, and is an exhibition of well-behaved cyclists.

    The bottom line is we need to be less ďaggressiveĒ. Iím not saying do less, Iím saying less confrontational Remember when you were a kid and you parent would yell at you, and you would yell back at them, and then they yell at you again? Did being disrespectful and breaking house rules ever gain you any ground? Rarely. It was when you would approach them in a more reasonable manner (as I learned when I grew up) you could make major changes.

  4. #4
    Car-Free Flatlander Stacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Below 14th Street
    My Bikes
    Sirrus
    Posts
    1,976
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why is it that NYC CM has been in the news since August while clubs, like 5BBC have weekly rides, presumably without a permit, and never seem to have run-ins with the cops? Maybe because they ride on weekends during the day? Maybe because these rides are organized by a specific group?

    These rides are open to anyone but I suspect requiring helmets tends to cut down on the number of "wreckless riders" who are likely to participate. I'd imagine helmets also alter the way cops, and the general public, view these cyclists.

    Stacy

  5. #5
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why has critical mass been in the news since August when motorcycle clubs spend the summer doing mass runs up the West Side Highway, 100 or so at a time, blocking all lanes of traffic without any kind of permit and sometimes with a police escort?

    Because this city loves to play the game of some things are more equal than others.

    It's a weird city we live in.
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  6. #6
    Car-Free Flatlander Stacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Below 14th Street
    My Bikes
    Sirrus
    Posts
    1,976
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    Why has critical mass been in the news since August when motorcycle clubs spend the summer doing mass runs up the West Side Highway, 100 or so at a time, blocking all lanes of traffic without any kind of permit and sometimes with a police escort?

    Because this city loves to play the game of some things are more equal than others.

    It's a weird city we live in.
    Maybe the real probalm with CM was, it was a slow news month and the media was hot for a protest story. 4 or 5% of the cycling population in NYC turned out for a late summer ride and, not surprisingly, some were political. Once the media was on the story cops probably felt they had to do something to justify all that security stuff, and things just kept going from there.

    I guess motorcycle processions on the West Side Highway haven't been discovered by the media.

    Stacy

  7. #7
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Heh.... And I still contend that most of the people in that August ride were not from our fair city. As a fellow NY'er would you say that's probably accurate?
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  8. #8
    Car-Free Flatlander Stacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Below 14th Street
    My Bikes
    Sirrus
    Posts
    1,976
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    Heh.... And I still contend that most of the people in that August ride were not from our fair city. As a fellow NY'er would you say that's probably accurate?
    We already know the majority of people arrested during the RNC weren't from New York. Also, Time's Up had a Bicycle Lending Library for any out of towners who wanted to participate and didn't have a ride. One local grad student who was arrested during the August CM got off yesterday after he produced a receipt from the Second Ave Deli proving he wasn't part of CM.

    Stacy

  9. #9
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    !? I had no idea...

    So if that's the case, then what the hell are the police going after CM riders for? It wasn't even the "regulars" that caused the damn problem!

    Now I'm pissed off.
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  10. #10
    Car-Free Flatlander Stacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Below 14th Street
    My Bikes
    Sirrus
    Posts
    1,976
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    !? I had no idea...

    So if that's the case, then what the hell are the police going after CM riders for? It wasn't even the "regulars" that caused the damn problem!

    Now I'm pissed off.
    Because most of the police are out of towners too

  11. #11
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Alternative to Critical Mass: Get with your cycling friends, people you met on CM or wherever, and start something different - create a new ride or activity that celebrates cycling and raises public awareness in a new, fun and non-confrontational way, and pick another day to ride instead of last Friday...In Portland, that's rides organized by Shift members, or Zoobomb on Sunday nights, or getting together for bike polo, or partying, riding and building bikes with Chunk 666. In NYC, maybe it's something else.

    http://www.shift2bikes.org/index.html
    http://www.zoobomb.org/
    http://www.axlesofevil.org/main.php
    http://www.dclxvi.org/chunk/

  12. #12
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What difference does it make if the RNC CM participants were out of towners or not (and I'd guess even on that ride *most* participants were locals)? The motoring public the police are ostensibly 'protecting' are primarily out of towners, too. I mean come on, where are most motorists in NYC from anyway? New Jersey, Connecticut, Westchester County and Long Island! Maybe the police identify with 'em 'cause they're all from the 'burbs too. Anyway, if you live in NYC, you're paying those cop's salaries throught property, sales and other taxes, even if you're only a renter. Here in Oregon, almost 30% of my property taxes goes towards supporting the local police. Never forget that the cops are public servants working for you, and that they should show you proper respect. When the cops start showing respect to the cyclists they've been dissing, maybe then they'll receive some respect back.

  13. #13
    Skidmaster teadoggg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    don walker, redline, TBD
    Posts
    1,627
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Okay, Chicago - is there anyone here who would be interested in this? It would take some time to start up, but I'm sure it could be done. We have a few winter months to get organized and put some plans into action. Even if it starts small, i'm sure we could get ridership up pretty quickly. After spending a few weeks rummaging through the threads on this web site, i'm going to guess for every 1 person who supports/rides Critical Mass, there are two who don't. Let's give those people something to ride in. It would start out at almost a "club ride" and just sorta bloom from there. I dunno, i'm just throwing stuff out.

    I'll bet that many people ride critical mass beacuse that seems to be the only major thing they can do in the way of cycle advocacy. Look how many people ride the mass and do absoultly nothing else.

  14. #14
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll tell you what difference it makes, Randy.

    Know how many CM arrests happened before those out of towners took over the August ride for one month of armchair revolutionarism?

    Come on...

    You can guess...

    Zero

    In other words, the troublemakers were not the people who are continually being harassed, but are people who came, stirred up some crap, and left.

    That is the difference if they're from around here or out of town.
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  15. #15
    No, GIR, thatís bad. Konakazi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Manhattan NYC
    Posts
    129
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey Randya,

    Can you get in to what some of the groups you're involved with are about and what you guys do? In particular, Shift and ZooBomb? Love the ZooBomb name, heh. Looked at some of the photos and it seems like you guys are having a good time of it too.
    "Ooooo! You've got CHICKEN LEGS!"

    "Those darn liberal wackos! Why do they always try to get involved in just causes?"

  16. #16
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There was a time when CM in Portland was relatively peaceful, too. I can tell you when all that changed: it was just after an August 2002 visit to Portland by George W. at which numerous peaceful demonstrators were pepper-sprayed by the police. Critical Mass wasn't even there. Ten days later, on the monthly CM ride, there was a police riot. Although it was 'Bike Summer' in Portland that year, and there were some out of town participants, this was still mostly a local ride.

    I have to believe that the majority of the NYC RNC CM participants were also local. So, I think the police crackdown on CM in NYC has more to do with the fact that the Republicans were in town for their convention and they don't like CM because of its anarchic philosophy and nature, and willingness to speak out on important issues of concern, than it has to do with whether or not there were out-of-town participants on the ride.

    In fact, if you were the paranoid sort, you might conclude that in national police circles, information is circulating regarding how to most effectively suppress CM; perhaps this information is even being disseminated through national police agencies like the FBI or the Dept. of Homeland Security. I personally find the similarities between the cop's tactics in Portland, NYC, Buffalo, Santa Cruz and other towns where CM is being actively suppressed too disconcerting to believe that it's all mere coincidence.

    So go ahead and blame it on 'out-of-towners' if you want, but I think you need to look a little closer to home than that - it's our own government pulling crazy ***** like this on its own citizens, right in our own backyards. Just another step closer to a police state...

    By the way - in the 60's during the civil rights and anti-war era, the US government used so-called outside agitators to infiltrate civil rights and antiwar organizations to try and get these groups to do stupid criminal ***** that would get them into trouble. No reason the government isn't still doing this today. These are the real outsiders you should be concerned about, not the people who came to NYC to legitimately and legally raise their voice in protest against the RNC because of their patriotism and concern for the direction this country's leadership has taken us in.

    I have always viewed Critical Mass as the heart of the cyclists' rights movement. If CM wasn't percieved as a threat by the powers that be, they would just ignore it. The amount of attention given by the NYPD and other police agencies to CM only reinforces my belief that they and their handlers view CM as a threat to their power.

    Last edited by randya; 12-02-04 at 04:21 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Konakazi
    Hey Randya,

    Can you get in to what some of the groups you're involved with are about and what you guys do? In particular, Shift and ZooBomb? Love the ZooBomb name, heh. Looked at some of the photos and it seems like you guys are having a good time of it too.
    Shift is an organization that evolved out of the group that planned and executed Bike Summer 2002 in Portland. Mostly they do fun stuff on bikes, like serving breakfast to bicycle commuters on the city's bridges (BonB), midnight mystery rides, holiday lights rides, heritage tree rides, pub crawls, bike camping trips, etc. Basically if you've got an idea for a fun ride or event they'll put it on their calendar for you. There's also been a special week or two of summer events annually for the past two years, culminating in a 'county bike fair' w/ music, bike competitions, and other events and activities. There's a web list and a lot of spin-off advocacy has resulted.

    ZooBomb is a weekly Sunday night event. Take the train to the zoo which is in a park at the top of a big hill. Hang out and party. Ride down real fast on souped-up little kids bikes (smaller bike = more ZB cred; 20" wheels are considered 'big'). Repeat 2 or 3 times. Occassional weekend road trips to SF or Seattle or BC. Annual Mt. Hood Bomb. Annual ZooBomb Century - 100 downhill miles in one day ~ about 25 trips down the hill, mix and match selecting from numerous routes, about 12 finishers last year. Summer and winter ZooBomb olympics. The ZooBomb 'bike library' (bunch o' little bikes chained to a bike rack downtown) has become something of a celebrated local work of art. FYI, there are ZooBombers in NYC, looking to organize a local ride...

    Chunk 666 is the local welding shop - choppers, tall bikes and stuff. The annual Chunkatulon is an all day party of tall bike jousting, bicycle demolition derby, and other events tending to be on the wild side.

  18. #18
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    FYI, there are ZooBombers in NYC, looking to organize a local ride...
    I wonder... The Bronx Zoo is around the corner from me and this sounds like a heck of a lot of fun.

    Need a smaller bike though
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  19. #19
    No, GIR, thatís bad. Konakazi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Manhattan NYC
    Posts
    129
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    FYI, there are ZooBombers in NYC, looking to organize a local ride...
    Word? Is there a site to find these mysterious people or are you just beating the drum of the unicorn?

    That sounds totally fun. I'll keep riding CM but I'd love to meet more people and/or a tighter group where I could actually know some people by name. CM is fun but I've only ever met ONE person through CM so far. Sniffle...
    "Ooooo! You've got CHICKEN LEGS!"

    "Those darn liberal wackos! Why do they always try to get involved in just causes?"

  20. #20
    No, GIR, thatís bad. Konakazi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Manhattan NYC
    Posts
    129
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by randya

    In fact, if you were the paranoid sort, you might conclude that in national police circles, information is circulating regarding how to most effectively suppress CM; perhaps this information is even being disseminated through national police agencies like the FBI or the Dept. of Homeland Security. I personally find the similarities between the cop's tactics in Portland, NYC, Buffalo, Santa Cruz and other towns where CM is being actively suppressed too disconcerting to believe that it's all mere coincidence.

    So go ahead and blame it on 'out-of-towners' if you want, but I think you need to look a little closer to home than that - it's our own government pulling crazy ***** like this on its own citizens, right in our own backyards. Just another step closer to a police state...
    I'll tell you something. I love you for having enough "balls" to say something like this.

    I agree with you.

    I also think that (forgive me for not referencing the post) whoever had previously mentioned COINTELPRO was also on the mark.

    There is something much larger and devious at work than what is presented on the surface and the fact that people are willing to digest a more palettable version delivered by the media makes things scarier.

    And with all that said, let's have MORE bike events damn it! Fook the local government and media barrage. Let's find ways to meet up more often and in more organized fashions!

    Laika, Vince, Turd, I'm looking at you guys!
    "Ooooo! You've got CHICKEN LEGS!"

    "Those darn liberal wackos! Why do they always try to get involved in just causes?"

  21. #21
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Okay. Here I am. What are you doing Sunday?
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,946
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzosi
    Okay. Here I am. What are you doing Sunday?
    there's a yahoo group planning a group ride starting at grand army plaza on sunday at two. or I can meet in the city on saturday. Also, my workweek is pretty loose next week and I'm dying to ride in central park with the new rules. Pick one or many and I am down to ride bikes.


    Honestly, that's what we called it when I was a kid and it feels so good to say it again. Kids from 92nd street would come around after school and I'd say to my mom, "See ya later. I'm gonna go out and ride bikes." That's honestly the reason I stick with CM, because i like "riding bikes." Glad to see I'm not the only one.


    Let's do this thing!

  23. #23
    No, GIR, thatís bad. Konakazi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Manhattan NYC
    Posts
    129
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Let's do it next week. I have all these holiday parties set for this weekend so I don't think Sunday will be good for much other than recovery.

    I'm totally down for riding bikes next week though! Central Park would be fine by me. Then beers and planning?

    WE MUST PLAN!
    "Ooooo! You've got CHICKEN LEGS!"

    "Those darn liberal wackos! Why do they always try to get involved in just causes?"

  24. #24
    Senior Member vincenzosi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek 1200 T (Mostly stock), 2005 Raleigh C30
    Posts
    673
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, let's plan... I'm down (as long as the temp is above 30!)

    Sorry... I'm wimpy that way...
    Currently Riding:
    2005 Raleigh C30

  25. #25
    No, GIR, thatís bad. Konakazi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Manhattan NYC
    Posts
    129
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Therma fleece tights and wicking tops with fleece and a shell. I'll give you notes over those beers.
    "Ooooo! You've got CHICKEN LEGS!"

    "Those darn liberal wackos! Why do they always try to get involved in just causes?"

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •