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Old 10-22-11, 07:24 AM   #1
OKIE_55
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Is a F250 pickup truck a deadly weapon?

A few days ago a guy steering a new F250 went by me at about 45mph, not moving over as a car was coming the other way. He was 6-8" from my hands as he sped by.
I yelled and waved my arm, he just laughed as he cut over the little that was left, very near me.

I consider that truck a deadly weapon at that moment, and I felt in danger of my life.
In Florida we can protect ourselves in any manor we see fit, even aid others.

I wonder how he'd feel if I exercised my rights just then.

I know this might stir a few things up, but I can't be the only one that feels this way at times. Am I wrong?
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Old 10-22-11, 08:09 AM   #2
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I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment. In practice though, the threat has passed. Keep some nuts and bolts at hand. Throw one of them. When he stops and then threatens you, protect yourself.
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Old 10-22-11, 08:21 AM   #3
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I know it'd be stupid to do anything, but would like to at times.
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Old 10-22-11, 08:45 AM   #4
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Unless the motorist has to stop a short distance further down the road, at 45 mph not much good info can be gathered to report it to local authorities as an unsafe pass, and only having a newer Ford F250 as a description isn't going to cut it. If this type of scenario happens regularly, possibly change routes, ride further left if the average traffic speed is low, or opt for a video camera.

To report an unsafe pass will be a lot easier than trying to prove that an F250 was being used as a deadly weapon, and at least there will be a greater chance in that the motorist will be documented.

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Old 10-22-11, 08:45 AM   #5
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I consider that truck a deadly weapon at that moment, and I felt in danger of my life.
In Florida we can protect ourselves in any manor we see fit, even aid others.

I wonder how he'd feel if I exercised my rights just then.
If you are trying to go where I think you are going, I think the judge and jury might not look at it the same way you do
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Old 10-22-11, 08:56 AM   #6
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I know it'd be stupid to do anything, but would like to at times.
I had a feeling you knew that when you posted the first one.

In most places, in order to claim the defense of "self-defense" against charges that you used force or deadly force illegally, you've basically got to pass a "reasonable man" test. The jury will be asked to consider whether a hypothetical reasonable person, dropped into your shoes in the situation in which you used force to defend yourself, would have been in fear of death or grave bodily harm (for himself, or for another innocent.)
Part of that process will probably include discussion of whether what you did had any defensive value. If I'm wrong, forgive me, but in your OP, which I took to be maybe half-serious, maybe less, you seem to be referring to using deadly force against the driver, maybe a firearm? The question is, what does shooting at the driver of the truck do to defend you from the danger? A reasonable person would absolutely conclude that your life was endangered, but he'd be forced to conclude that shooting at the driver didn't do anything to make you safer--it would be seen (rightly, I think) as an expression of anger and an effort to take revenge on someone who had just wronged you. That's not self-defense.

Moondance . . . not helping!
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Old 10-22-11, 08:57 AM   #7
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Con, not exactly, but just wondering if others have similar feelings at times.

We all know, with judges and juries, things don't always come out as we thought they would.
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Old 10-22-11, 09:03 AM   #8
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Not exactly, but just wondering if others have similar feelings at times.

.
Impluse control, we learn it as we grow up. We all have feelings like that, we learn not to act on them......But, you know that already.

Folks in cars and trucks piss me off all time when I'm on my bike or motorcycle. There was a time I would let it eat at me for many many miles, now I just let it go and move on.
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Old 10-22-11, 09:05 AM   #9
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I had a feeling you knew that when you posted the first one.

In most places, in order to claim the defense of "self-defense" against charges that you used force or deadly force illegally, you've basically got to pass a "reasonable man" test. The jury will be asked to consider whether a hypothetical reasonable person, dropped into your shoes in the situation in which you used force to defend yourself, would have been in fear of death or grave bodily harm (for himself, or for another innocent.)
Part of that process will probably include discussion of whether what you did had any defensive value. If I'm wrong, forgive me, but in your OP, which I took to be maybe half-serious, maybe less, you seem to be referring to using deadly force against the driver, maybe a firearm? The question is, what does shooting at the driver of the truck do to defend you from the danger? A reasonable person would absolutely conclude that your life was endangered, but he'd be forced to conclude that shooting at the driver didn't do anything to make you safer--it would be seen (rightly, I think) as an expression of anger and an effort to take revenge on someone who had just wronged you. That's not self-defense.

Moondance . . . not helping!
Very well put, I thank you very much.

I don't ride that road anymore, and I'm learning how to pick much safer routes.
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Old 10-22-11, 09:13 AM   #10
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To the OP, I had a similar thread up this last week "Near buzzes and the law" was inspired by a guy in a new hummer performing the same manuever.. only no on coming traffic. Report him, so at least he'll be known for that kind of driving, and then don't worry about it.
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Old 10-22-11, 09:15 AM   #11
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.... There was a time I would let it eat at me for many many miles, now I just let it go and move on.
I've tried the let it go and move on method, but too many motorists kept throwing salt on my wound. I now have taken measures in making sure that the worst offending motorists, that I encounter, get reported to local authorities.
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Old 10-22-11, 09:25 AM   #12
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Moondance . . . not helping!
I do what I can!!
I think maybe I should invest in a two cameras, like the guy in PA http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/773977-Angry-Driver-Encounter-%28video%29
Then you have some proof/evidence. Or at least your next-of-kin does....
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Old 10-22-11, 09:28 AM   #13
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Well I asked for words of wisdom from the good peeps here, and I'm getting them, thanks.

Looks like a helmet cam is on my Christmas wish list, it'll be there a while.
Man the list goes on, when does it stop.
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Old 10-22-11, 10:49 AM   #14
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Man the list goes on, when does it stop.
bike want lists are fun
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Old 10-22-11, 11:00 AM   #15
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We all know, with judges and juries, things don't always come out as we thought they would.
Rarely ever but, as we hope, where cyclists are concerned.

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Old 10-22-11, 11:32 AM   #16
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Never mind retaliation. Go for prevention. In situations where you can't legally "take the lane", ride in a position that always leaves at least 2-3 feet of ride-able pavement to your right. Also get yourself whatever type of mirror that works best for you, and monitor overtaking traffic. Then, when you see one of these asshats is just about to breeze you, glide over into your buffer zone.* That 6 inch pass just became 2-3 feet. It works.

*don't move right too soon or the JAM may just move over too.
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Old 10-22-11, 11:46 AM   #17
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The F250 IS a deadly weapon. You could do exactly what the "King's men" do, in exactly the same situation, and still go to prison.
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Old 10-22-11, 12:01 PM   #18
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I wonder how he'd feel if I exercised my rights just then.
How do you protect yourself from an F250? If you shoot the guy afterward, it's too late. It's not defense if it's already happened. It's only defense if you're attempting prevent it from happening. You can't shoot at everybody you think might pass closer than you are comfortable with.
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Old 10-22-11, 01:55 PM   #19
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Then, when you see one of these asshats is just about to breeze you, glide over into your buffer zone.* That 6 inch pass just became 2-3 feet. It works.
Working urban traffic makes it difficult to constantly monitor rear approaching traffic, and comes at the expense of monitoring forward cross traffic and parked vehicles. My last motorist didn't let his actions be known until the last few seconds while I was scanning an upcoming intersection.
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Old 10-22-11, 04:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by OKIE_55 View Post
A few days ago a guy steering a new F250 went by me at about 45mph, not moving over as a car was coming the other way. He was 6-8" from my hands as he sped by.
I yelled and waved my arm, he just laughed as he cut over the little that was left, very near me.

I consider that truck a deadly weapon at that moment, and I felt in danger of my life.
In Florida we can protect ourselves in any manor we see fit, even aid others.

I wonder how he'd feel if I exercised my rights just then.

I know this might stir a few things up, but I can't be the only one that feels this way at times. Am I wrong?
I agree, but it depends on how you exercise those rights.
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Old 10-22-11, 06:11 PM   #21
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I've stayed a free man this long, no asshat like that going to change that.
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Old 10-22-11, 07:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Don Gwinn View Post
I had a feeling you knew that when you posted the first one.

In most places, in order to claim the defense of "self-defense" against charges that you used force or deadly force illegally, you've basically got to pass a "reasonable man" test. The jury will be asked to consider whether a hypothetical reasonable person, dropped into your shoes in the situation in which you used force to defend yourself, would have been in fear of death or grave bodily harm (for himself, or for another innocent.)
Part of that process will probably include discussion of whether what you did had any defensive value. If I'm wrong, forgive me, but in your OP, which I took to be maybe half-serious, maybe less, you seem to be referring to using deadly force against the driver, maybe a firearm? The question is, what does shooting at the driver of the truck do to defend you from the danger? A reasonable person would absolutely conclude that your life was endangered, but he'd be forced to conclude that shooting at the driver didn't do anything to make you safer--it would be seen (rightly, I think) as an expression of anger and an effort to take revenge on someone who had just wronged you. That's not self-defense.

Moondance . . . not helping!
Actually thanks to former Governor Jeb Bush who expanded the "castle doctrine." Here in Florida we are allowed to use deadly force to defend ourselves in our cars, on motorcycles, on bicycles, on our boats or while walking down the street. There are states such as NY that requires a person to if they can safely to leave the area before they are allowed to use deadly force.

To the OP, don't forget though that over in Tampa this past year that a man was arrested trying to use that defense for defending either his son or his girlfriends son from a "gang of bullies."
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Old 10-22-11, 07:57 PM   #23
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How do you protect yourself from an F250? If you shoot the guy afterward, it's too late. It's not defense if it's already happened. It's only defense if you're attempting prevent it from happening. You can't shoot at everybody you think might pass closer than you are comfortable with.
Oh, now you tell me. Well, off to the old hideout.

It is seriously difficult to get law enforcement to accept that there are people out there who take joy in endangering cyclists. However, I am seeing more police departments starting bike patrols. If we can get those cops to ride without their uniforms a bit, then we might start to see some prosecutions. The bike cops that I have talked to in Eugene have told me they are afraid to ride without their uniforms.
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Old 10-22-11, 08:34 PM   #24
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The F250 IS a deadly weapon. You could do exactly what the "King's men" do, in exactly the same situation, and still go to prison.
This. I guarantee that if you got that close to a cop making a traffic stop with a truck going at speed, and got caught, the charge would be ADW, or at least some form of reckless endangerment. They won't bother with a traffic citation when they're the ones in danger.
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Old 10-23-11, 07:36 AM   #25
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Reality check. Self defense is protecting yourself from immediate danger. By the time you "defended yourself" from this driver, the danger would be over. You'd go to jail.
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