Maybe I'm not an advocate....
11-01-11, 11:34 AM
#26
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I'm suggesting the name change to perhaps separate some of the wheat from the chaff and place the grousing about how "the cars are out to get us" BICYCLE RIGHTS, MAN and videos of awesomely noneventful commuting taken to indignant levels like Fred here
below a new 'education and promotion' category at bike forums. I like Sgoodris' idea and Unterhausens' lobby to move this section down in the forum list...
'education and promotion'
and down the ranks, 'safety and advocacy'.
Now, i'm quite the bicycling advocate myself (and ride more like Kyle MacLachlan in the yellow helmet in this clip) but think BF may skew the view of bicycling, as you'd mentioned in your original post.
Last edited by Bekologist; 11-01-11 at 11:43 AM.
11-01-11, 11:37 AM
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I think most cyclists who drive have the traffic skills, but many who have only returned to cycling later in life can't get over the fact that they are exposed, rather than protected by a steel cage, which makes it all seem more complicated and dangerous. I can understand that, even if I can't personally identify with it.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
11-01-11, 11:38 AM
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ahh, I get ya.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
11-01-11, 11:42 AM
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
11-01-11, 12:28 PM
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Long beach does have much better bike infrastructure than most of LA. So that could play a factor in the behavior of drivers. It is much more bike friendly.
11-01-11, 12:31 PM
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I don’t consider this forum to be fear mongering about the dangers of cycling. It looks to me like a bunch of cyclists just posting about the realities of their rides and how they deal with traffic or other issues. I found it helpful (and continue to)... It never scared me away from cycling. 
There’s room in A&S for “Advocates” of all flavors.
Hippies who ride without a care in the world…
Roadies wearing fancy gear and $200 helmets…
"UFO" commuters...
Narcs with video cams…
Even scofflaws... who give us all a bad name
I've seen the "Lycra is killing cycling" threads, and the posts that say if someone wears a safety vest they're making cycling look too dangerous. Phooey on that noise!
Cyclists who consider themselves better advocates than those who may not ride in the exact same manner are the ones not promoting cycling.
There’s room in A&S for “Advocates” of all flavors.
Hippies who ride without a care in the world…
Roadies wearing fancy gear and $200 helmets…
"UFO" commuters...
Narcs with video cams…
Even scofflaws... who give us all a bad name
I've seen the "Lycra is killing cycling" threads, and the posts that say if someone wears a safety vest they're making cycling look too dangerous. Phooey on that noise!
Cyclists who consider themselves better advocates than those who may not ride in the exact same manner are the ones not promoting cycling.
11-01-11, 12:32 PM
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Bottom line is that everyone (cyclists, motorists, and pedestrians) are self-centered egoists. They routinely break traffic laws and behave in uncivil ways. One can either get angry or one can ignore what doesn't cause them harm and live one's own life... Most of the the stories here usually start with "I nearly..." which is a clear indication that no actual harm was done, and many of the other type demonstrate another fact; it almost always requires mistakes on the part of both parties for the accident to occur... A actual socio-path is thankfully VERY RARE!
11-01-11, 12:32 PM
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While I agree, and have relative few issues on my daily 30mileRT commute. I main difference is a small incident for a motorist is potentially a large/life threatening incident for someone on a bike. Its more the people who aren't paying attention that is the problem.
11-01-11, 12:56 PM
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The point of this thread is to point out how real world bicycling for the vast majority of us is just not as dangerous as reading the posts in the A&S make it seem, and that it confuses me how someone could be advocating bicycling by telling people that the streets are so dangerous we need cameras to document all the aggressive dangerous drivers (not true, and when pushed, the psople who use these cameras only report one or two a year), special head gear is required, (also not true, but let's keep that debate to the helmet thread), and that everyone is out to kill us (also not true, as the reason that when a cyclist dies it makes headlines is because it happens so seldom it actually is news and when a motorist dies, you might be lucky to find out about who it was in the obits as it happens multiple times daily in every city). How is this encouraging and supporting cycling?
I like to show how safe and fun riding a bike is! That's how you attract people to cycling. Cycling is fun, safe, and will help shrink the waistlines of our super-sized citizenry if only we could get more people to do it. Trust me, once someone makes it up their first hill, then giggles like a schoolgirl on the way down, they could be hooked. Once the initial fear is gotten over (with experience) riding in trafic is fun. The attention payed is almost zen-like. Drivers, 99.9% of the time are curteous and give plenty of room. There are exceptions, but such is life. Let's get our numbers up! You want safety? There's safety in numbers, as the more of us that are out there, the more we're expected. You want to reduce pollution and greenhouse gasses? The less cars, trucks and suv's running the less pollution. These things are more important than whining about the vast minority of bad drivers and getting styrofoam hats on everyone's head (trust me, I'm a to each his or her own on this, I don't want you not to wear one if you so choose).
These are just a few of my points here. I didn't make any of this up and I'm not a troll. In fact, I think in reality I'm in the majority of cyclists who know bicycling is inherently safe and fun!
I like to show how safe and fun riding a bike is! That's how you attract people to cycling. Cycling is fun, safe, and will help shrink the waistlines of our super-sized citizenry if only we could get more people to do it. Trust me, once someone makes it up their first hill, then giggles like a schoolgirl on the way down, they could be hooked. Once the initial fear is gotten over (with experience) riding in trafic is fun. The attention payed is almost zen-like. Drivers, 99.9% of the time are curteous and give plenty of room. There are exceptions, but such is life. Let's get our numbers up! You want safety? There's safety in numbers, as the more of us that are out there, the more we're expected. You want to reduce pollution and greenhouse gasses? The less cars, trucks and suv's running the less pollution. These things are more important than whining about the vast minority of bad drivers and getting styrofoam hats on everyone's head (trust me, I'm a to each his or her own on this, I don't want you not to wear one if you so choose).
These are just a few of my points here. I didn't make any of this up and I'm not a troll. In fact, I think in reality I'm in the majority of cyclists who know bicycling is inherently safe and fun!
Inherently fun, yes. I agree.
Inherently safe, I disagree. I need to find the article, but the other day there was a study on British roads which showed that there was roughly 10 times more cyclist deaths per billion miles traveled than driver deaths per billion miles traveled- and that the cyclist deaths per mile are on a rise (which cannot be explained by rising numbers of cyclists). I suppose one could argue that's simply because cyclists travel much slower and if you examine deaths vs total time traveled you would have a more valid figure, but unfortunately they did not have that figure in the study. Regardless, I now bicycle in place of traveling in my car, going roughly the same distances I would have in my car, and for a utility cyclist this seems to indicate that I am roughly at 10x more risk of dying on my bike than in my car.
Congratulations on living in a safe city where people respect cyclists. You are not typical of the average American cyclist. Let me give you a rundown of the situations I have encountered within the last 2 weeks:
1) Last Friday, there was a hard freeze. Car windows were frosted over in the morning. On average, I would say about 60-70% of the cars I encountered on the ride did not fully defrost their windows before going out on the roads. Furthermore, about 20-30% of the cars I encountered had only scraped a tiny portion of the drivers-side window, and nothing else, leaving me completely invisible to them, despite my 2 rear lights and 2 headlights. I was almost hit by 4 drivers in this condition; once having to ditch into the gutter to avoid being whacked from behind. One potential fifth was making a right turn into the road I was on, and I could not see a thing through their window, so I (correctly) assumed they were just going to pull into the road without looking. They did, and I had already slowed down enough to avoid a 5th potential whacking.
2) Traveling down a 40mph 5-lane road (2/1/2) with no shoulder, so I took the rightmost lane to increase my visibility. A car came upon me quickly and did not switch to the left lane until the very last possible moment. Unfortunately the guy tailgating him had no idea I existed because the car that switched lanes was blocking his view of me. He slammed on the brakes and the horn simultaneously and screamed at me out the window when he forced his way past me without switching lanes (he was halfway in the left lane, no turn indicators used at any point). If this had been some idiot distracted on a cell phone I would be dead right now.
3) Taking the lane on a similar road to the aforementioned for similar reasons. Coming up to a red stoplight, a car squeezed its way past me on the right-hand-side, literally running over the curb at one point, and then slamming on his brakes the second he was in front of me. I have no idea what rational reason anyone on this planet had to do that, but hey, it happens.
4) Riding down a 2-lane street with a wide shoulder. I ride in the shoulder on this road. Car going my direction decides to make a left turn. As I go to pass him, a second car comes zooming up behind him and without braking, swerves right to go around him, and barely misses whacking my
front wheel.
I follow all traffic rules. I am brightly visible at all times. I ride FRAP whenever I feel it is safe to do so, and take the lane when it's safer to do that. I ride lower-traffic roads intentionally to avoid conflict, but this does not help. Cars do not respect cyclists in this city. Congratulations on living in a place where people do take cyclists seriously, but do not attempt to imply that we are doing things wrong just because there's driver/cyclist conflict. There's a whole country out there that operates differently from what you're used to.
11-01-11, 12:59 PM
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Inherently fun, yes. I agree.
Inherently safe, I disagree. I need to find the article, but the other day there was a study on British roads which showed that there was roughly 10 times more cyclist deaths per billion miles traveled than driver deaths per billion miles traveled- and that the cyclist deaths per mile are on a rise (which cannot be explained by rising numbers of cyclists). I suppose one could argue that's simply because cyclists travel much slower and if you examine deaths vs total time traveled you would have a more valid figure, but unfortunately they did not have that figure in the study. Regardless, I now bicycle in place of traveling in my car, going roughly the same distances I would have in my car, and for a utility cyclist this seems to indicate that I am roughly at 10x more risk of dying on my bike than in my car.
Congratulations on living in a safe city where people respect cyclists. You are not typical of the average American cyclist. Let me give you a rundown of the situations I have encountered within the last 2 weeks:
1) Last Friday, there was a hard freeze. Car windows were frosted over in the morning. On average, I would say about 60-70% of the cars I encountered on the ride did not fully defrost their windows before going out on the roads. Furthermore, about 20-30% of the cars I encountered had only scraped a tiny portion of the drivers-side window, and nothing else, leaving me completely invisible to them, despite my 2 rear lights and 2 headlights. I was almost hit by 4 drivers in this condition; once having to ditch into the gutter to avoid being whacked from behind. One potential fifth was making a right turn into the road I was on, and I could not see a thing through their window, so I (correctly) assumed they were just going to pull into the road without looking. They did, and I had already slowed down enough to avoid a 5th potential whacking.
2) Traveling down a 40mph 5-lane road (2/1/2) with no shoulder, so I took the rightmost lane to increase my visibility. A car came upon me quickly and did not switch to the left lane until the very last possible moment. Unfortunately the guy tailgating him had no idea I existed because the car that switched lanes was blocking his view of me. He slammed on the brakes and the horn simultaneously and screamed at me out the window when he forced his way past me without switching lanes (he was halfway in the left lane, no turn indicators used at any point). If this had been some idiot distracted on a cell phone I would be dead right now.
3) Taking the lane on a similar road to the aforementioned for similar reasons. Coming up to a red stoplight, a car squeezed its way past me on the right-hand-side, literally running over the curb at one point, and then slamming on his brakes the second he was in front of me. I have no idea what rational reason anyone on this planet had to do that, but hey, it happens.
4) Riding down a 2-lane street with a wide shoulder. I ride in the shoulder on this road. Car going my direction decides to make a left turn. As I go to pass him, a second car comes zooming up behind him and without braking, swerves right to go around him, and barely misses whacking my
front wheel.
I follow all traffic rules. I am brightly visible at all times. I ride FRAP whenever I feel it is safe to do so, and take the lane when it's safer to do that. I ride lower-traffic roads intentionally to avoid conflict, but this does not help. Cars do not respect cyclists in this city. Congratulations on living in a place where people do take cyclists seriously, but do not attempt to imply that we are doing things wrong just because there's driver/cyclist conflict. There's a whole country out there that operates differently from what you're used to.
Inherently safe, I disagree. I need to find the article, but the other day there was a study on British roads which showed that there was roughly 10 times more cyclist deaths per billion miles traveled than driver deaths per billion miles traveled- and that the cyclist deaths per mile are on a rise (which cannot be explained by rising numbers of cyclists). I suppose one could argue that's simply because cyclists travel much slower and if you examine deaths vs total time traveled you would have a more valid figure, but unfortunately they did not have that figure in the study. Regardless, I now bicycle in place of traveling in my car, going roughly the same distances I would have in my car, and for a utility cyclist this seems to indicate that I am roughly at 10x more risk of dying on my bike than in my car.
Congratulations on living in a safe city where people respect cyclists. You are not typical of the average American cyclist. Let me give you a rundown of the situations I have encountered within the last 2 weeks:
1) Last Friday, there was a hard freeze. Car windows were frosted over in the morning. On average, I would say about 60-70% of the cars I encountered on the ride did not fully defrost their windows before going out on the roads. Furthermore, about 20-30% of the cars I encountered had only scraped a tiny portion of the drivers-side window, and nothing else, leaving me completely invisible to them, despite my 2 rear lights and 2 headlights. I was almost hit by 4 drivers in this condition; once having to ditch into the gutter to avoid being whacked from behind. One potential fifth was making a right turn into the road I was on, and I could not see a thing through their window, so I (correctly) assumed they were just going to pull into the road without looking. They did, and I had already slowed down enough to avoid a 5th potential whacking.
2) Traveling down a 40mph 5-lane road (2/1/2) with no shoulder, so I took the rightmost lane to increase my visibility. A car came upon me quickly and did not switch to the left lane until the very last possible moment. Unfortunately the guy tailgating him had no idea I existed because the car that switched lanes was blocking his view of me. He slammed on the brakes and the horn simultaneously and screamed at me out the window when he forced his way past me without switching lanes (he was halfway in the left lane, no turn indicators used at any point). If this had been some idiot distracted on a cell phone I would be dead right now.
3) Taking the lane on a similar road to the aforementioned for similar reasons. Coming up to a red stoplight, a car squeezed its way past me on the right-hand-side, literally running over the curb at one point, and then slamming on his brakes the second he was in front of me. I have no idea what rational reason anyone on this planet had to do that, but hey, it happens.
4) Riding down a 2-lane street with a wide shoulder. I ride in the shoulder on this road. Car going my direction decides to make a left turn. As I go to pass him, a second car comes zooming up behind him and without braking, swerves right to go around him, and barely misses whacking my
front wheel.
I follow all traffic rules. I am brightly visible at all times. I ride FRAP whenever I feel it is safe to do so, and take the lane when it's safer to do that. I ride lower-traffic roads intentionally to avoid conflict, but this does not help. Cars do not respect cyclists in this city. Congratulations on living in a place where people do take cyclists seriously, but do not attempt to imply that we are doing things wrong just because there's driver/cyclist conflict. There's a whole country out there that operates differently from what you're used to.
11-01-11, 01:06 PM
#36
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I follow all traffic rules. I am brightly visible at all times. I ride FRAP whenever I feel it is safe to do so, and take the lane when it's safer to do that. I ride lower-traffic roads intentionally to avoid conflict, but this does not help. Cars do not respect cyclists in this city. Congratulations on living in a place where people do take cyclists seriously, but do not attempt to imply that we are doing things wrong just because there's driver/cyclist conflict. There's a whole country out there that operates differently from what you're used to.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
11-01-11, 01:10 PM
#37
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This seems to go to the point I made earlier about being exposed and feeling more vulnerable because of it. Ironic how one of the biggest joys of cycling can also be one of the major causes of stress when cycling.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
11-01-11, 01:22 PM
#38
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Lighten up, Francis...I don't think anyone is implying that you are doing anything wrong.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
And speaking of this, let's face it Chip, we have some issues.....
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11-01-11, 01:33 PM
#39
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You're using your personal experiences to equate the whole for other cyclists.. don't get me wrong if you look in this forum and you don't realize what a small % of overall it really is... it looks like we're all gambling our lives every ride... well we are just not with as bad of odds as they'd like you to believe. I am glad for you that you don't have to put up with asshats... but I do and believe me helmets and cameras aren't bad things at all. Examples, take the lane on a 15mph bridge doing 16 nearly get run down by motorists doing 40+ who want to ride right behind your rear wheel with their bumper... when they finally do brake that is. Guys who don't care if you have right of way and will swerve into the bike lane.. had that one happen a few times now because I went on my turn at stop signs.... I get that you think your right but it's kinda like the wallstreet protests.. yeah I'm part of the 99% too but they're not speaking my agenda or experiences and neither are you. (I apologize if that anology is too P&R).
11-01-11, 01:36 PM
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I do continue to bike to work, despite having a car freely available back at home. I am not hurting for money. I do enjoy the ride when it's not spent avoiding death. There is something that keeps me coming back.
That being said... my office is closing in a little less than a month, and making us all work from home from now on. I am actually looking forward to this greatly, because I am certain that if I continued to bicycle commute to work for another year, I would get burnt out of having to deal with this crap on a regular basis. Now I will be able to cycle when I want, where I want- on my own terms. There's quite a few nearly-empty country roads calling my name next year. Quite a few.
11-01-11, 01:39 PM
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Lighten up, Francis...I don't think anyone is implying that you are doing anything wrong.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
11-01-11, 02:00 PM
#42
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Isn't the A&S forum by it's very nature going to be a catchall for issues with drivers and bike safety? Hippiebrain, do you post in and read the Commuting Forum? In particular, the "How was your commute today?" thread. Do you find that as negative?
11-01-11, 02:02 PM
#43
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That being said... my office is closing in a little less than a month, and making us all work from home from now on. I am actually looking forward to this greatly, because I am certain that if I continued to bicycle commute to work for another year, I would get burnt out of having to deal with this crap on a regular basis. Now I will be able to cycle when I want, where I want- on my own terms. There's quite a few nearly-empty country roads calling my name next year. Quite a few.
you have now reached the stage of bicycling thatI achieved when I retired. You are in for a treat, but stay alert, because
even on those nearly empty country roads, Death rids a pale SUV.
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11-01-11, 02:08 PM
#44
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Yup, I've even posted there. Thing is, a lot of people new to cycling or considering cycling come to A&S first, and I am concerned about what their first impressions are when they read this forum. Let's face it, it they go here first, they may get scared and never make it to the commuting forum or the living car-free forum, both of which appear much more positive.
11-01-11, 03:01 PM
#45
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Lighten up, Francis...I don't think anyone is implying that you are doing anything wrong.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
FYI, I can't imagine Buffalo being any worse than Cleveland...and Cleveland doesn't even make the top ten of the least bike-friendly cities I have commuted in or through since the 70s. You want H&D, try just about any city in Florida!
Look, drivers, like people in general in this country, don't respect anyone other than themselves. especially anyone in their way, whether they be on a bike, in a car, pushing a shopping cart or walking down the street. Lack of respect for other users of the road is SOP in our country...you don't have to accept it or like it, just don't take it personally or that it's just because you ride a bike. Americans are equal opportunity h8ers.
Is it an issue of youth, or "this generation," or "the times" or what?
BTW I didn't leave her there stranded at the side of the road either... I actually gave her a ride home.
11-01-11, 03:11 PM
#46
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You know, I have to say that it is too bad we seem to be such "h8ters;" but I saw that very "me me" attitude just a few weeks ago... Woman was stranded in the lane and could not get her car to go... everyone is just driving around her... no one stopping. Then along I come... I happened to be hauling a load, so I was driving... I pull over, get out and tell her to get in her car and I push her off the road. Any of several of the cars with young men that passed could have done the same, but they apparently did not consider it.
Is it an issue of youth, or "this generation," or "the times" or what?
BTW I didn't leave her there stranded at the side of the road either... I actually gave her a ride home.
Is it an issue of youth, or "this generation," or "the times" or what?
BTW I didn't leave her there stranded at the side of the road either... I actually gave her a ride home.
11-01-11, 03:36 PM
#47
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But you could be right, in which case, maybe unterhausen's suggestion of retitling the forum to Safety and Advocacy might make it less prominent and not one of the first forums a newcomer to BF might see.
11-01-11, 04:00 PM
#48
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I live on the northern border of Amish country here....yes, drivers treat them just as badly.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
11-01-11, 04:23 PM
#49
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Thought-provoking post and responses. I also live in Long Beach and have also wondered what I'm doing wrong -- I experience no conflict or close calls in my cycling activities either. I had assumed that cyclists who encounter a lot of these situations are conflict-seeking drama queens.
After reading these responses, it's apparent to me that not every cycling environment is as accommodating as here. Duh. Makes sense, it just didn't occur to me.
One thing that has occurred to me -- on average, each motorist is engaged in a collision once every 7 years (according the auto collision repair industry). I think these are fairly random events stemming more from carelessness than from maliciousness. It occurs to me that when we ride in traffic, we expose ourselves to these random events. Given that we have the most to lose in a collision with a car, it is incumbent upon us to prevent or avoid those collisions (by whatever means is most effective - taking the lane, riding FRAP, etc.).
Another thing that occurs to me -- if I lived in an unsafe area where cycling among motorists felt like a constant battle, I'd find alternate means of transportation -- I wouldn't continue to complain and place myself at such high risk. So I guess that may be the OP's point -- if cycling in traffic is so bad and doesn't make you happy, why do it?
After reading these responses, it's apparent to me that not every cycling environment is as accommodating as here. Duh. Makes sense, it just didn't occur to me.
One thing that has occurred to me -- on average, each motorist is engaged in a collision once every 7 years (according the auto collision repair industry). I think these are fairly random events stemming more from carelessness than from maliciousness. It occurs to me that when we ride in traffic, we expose ourselves to these random events. Given that we have the most to lose in a collision with a car, it is incumbent upon us to prevent or avoid those collisions (by whatever means is most effective - taking the lane, riding FRAP, etc.).
Another thing that occurs to me -- if I lived in an unsafe area where cycling among motorists felt like a constant battle, I'd find alternate means of transportation -- I wouldn't continue to complain and place myself at such high risk. So I guess that may be the OP's point -- if cycling in traffic is so bad and doesn't make you happy, why do it?
11-01-11, 04:38 PM
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Thought-provoking post and responses. I also live in Long Beach and have also wondered what I'm doing wrong -- I experience no conflict or close calls in my cycling activities either. I had assumed that cyclists who encounter a lot of these situations are conflict-seeking drama queens.
After reading these responses, it's apparent to me that not every cycling environment is as accommodating as here. Duh. Makes sense, it just didn't occur to me.
One thing that has occurred to me -- on average, each motorist is engaged in a collision once every 7 years (according the auto collision repair industry). I think these are fairly random events stemming more from carelessness than from maliciousness. It occurs to me that when we ride in traffic, we expose ourselves to these random events. Given that we have the most to lose in a collision with a car, it is incumbent upon us to prevent or avoid those collisions (by whatever means is most effective - taking the lane, riding FRAP, etc.).
Another thing that occurs to me -- if I lived in an unsafe area where cycling among motorists felt like a constant battle, I'd find alternate means of transportation -- I wouldn't continue to complain and place myself at such high risk. So I guess that may be the OP's point -- if cycling in traffic is so bad and doesn't make you happy, why do it?
After reading these responses, it's apparent to me that not every cycling environment is as accommodating as here. Duh. Makes sense, it just didn't occur to me.
One thing that has occurred to me -- on average, each motorist is engaged in a collision once every 7 years (according the auto collision repair industry). I think these are fairly random events stemming more from carelessness than from maliciousness. It occurs to me that when we ride in traffic, we expose ourselves to these random events. Given that we have the most to lose in a collision with a car, it is incumbent upon us to prevent or avoid those collisions (by whatever means is most effective - taking the lane, riding FRAP, etc.).
Another thing that occurs to me -- if I lived in an unsafe area where cycling among motorists felt like a constant battle, I'd find alternate means of transportation -- I wouldn't continue to complain and place myself at such high risk. So I guess that may be the OP's point -- if cycling in traffic is so bad and doesn't make you happy, why do it?