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Old 12-07-04, 05:39 PM   #1
bentbaggerlen
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Research shows about 75 percent of bicyclists are at fault.....

I found this story though a Goggle search. It's located on the web page of KTRE-TV in Lufkin TX.
http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=2FH5TvwO
I have no idea how long it will be online so I did a cut and paste of the story. I would like to find out her source for the research that supports the last line of the story. I've sent a e-mail to the station asking for a source of the information, but has anyone else seen this research?

This is not a call to arms, we don't need to flood the station with E-mail and phone calls. I just want to find this research

By Ramonica R. Jones

A 25 year-old East Texas man is dead after being killed in a car wreck. The wreck happened Monday night on Highway 190, 1.7 miles east of FM 2500.

Polk County authorities say Chris Tucker rode his bike in front of a truck driven by Priscilla Thompson of Livingston.

You've probably been told to look both ways before crossing the street, but that's not always enough, especially for pedestrians.

"You need to wear some type of reflective material," DPS trooper Greg Sanches says. "Make sure you get way off the roadway and be looking, be observant, because you never know what can happen on the roadway."

Just because you're not in a car, doesn't mean you should count on drivers to watch out for you. It's your job to make sure they see you.

"Even if you have a crosswalk, you gotta remember cars are coming down that roadway," Trooper Sanches says. "You may have the right of way if you're in an area where there's a crosswalk, but still, you gotta be looking left right left and make sure that somebody is not about to run over you. Make sure you can get in a safe location before you are hit."

Bike riders are supposed to ride along with traffic, following the same rules that apply to cars and trucks. Pedestrians should walk toward traffic. That way, you can always see what's headed your way and avoid becoming the victim of a preventable tragedy.

Research shows about 75 percent of bicyclists are at fault in fatal accidents involving a car.
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Old 12-07-04, 05:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentbaggerlen

Research shows about 75 percent of bicyclists are at fault in fatal accidents involving a car.
Depends on who's doin' the researchin'. The law says motorists have to give the right-of-way to bicyclists. Bicyclists have to give the right-of-way to pedestrians. But, hey, who cares about the law?
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Old 12-07-04, 05:58 PM   #3
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barenakedbiker,
"Depends on who's doin' the researchin'" Thats what I want to find out.
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Old 12-07-04, 06:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentbaggerlen
barenakedbiker,
"Depends on who's doin' the researchin'" Thats what I want to find out.
Well, how many smackers do you want to put down for American Auto Association, National Race Car Lovers Association, or the Institute To Get Bicyclists Off The Road?

I can tell you the researchin' ain't done by anyone who travels on two wheels. But, I could be totally wrong. There actually has been research done on car-bike collisions.

Number One collision type laid to rest on EXPERIENCED bicycists: The left turning goomba, aka motorist, plowing into a bicyclist going straight, in the on-coming lane. Countermeasure: Educate the bicyclist to always look at the vehicles in the opposite left-turn lanes when approaching intersections with left turn lanes. Prepare for evasive manuvers.

The LEAST common collision type, the one most inexperienced bicycists are most afraid of: the rear-end collision. Countermeasure: use a helmet-mounted rear view mirror and position the bike in the middle of the lane to force the motorist to switch lanes before passing.
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Old 12-07-04, 07:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
The law says motorists have to give the right-of-way to bicyclists.
First I've heard of that! No more stopping at red lights for me!

I can belive the statistic considering that most fatal accidents probably involve kids and/or wrong way riders.
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Old 12-07-04, 07:27 PM   #6
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I've researched the accident stats for the City of Portland, from the local Transportation Department's crash data base, which is based on actual police accident reports. The police in Portland assigned fault to the motorist involved in a crash with a bicyclist 58% of the time, and fault to the bicyclist 42% of the time. That's for all reported crashes and four years of data, from 1998 through 2001.

In 2000, Charles Komanoff and Michael Smith did a study of NYC accident stats, and concluded that the NYPD wrongly assigned fault to bicyclists in many cases when the motorist involved was actually at fault. See: http://www.rightofway.org/research/cyclists.pdf

Lufkin,Texas is in the rural redneck northeastern part of the great state of Texas. I have no doubt members of the Highway Patrol there, despite state laws protecting bicyclists' right to use the roads, take a dim view of all bicyclists, and particularly of those cyclists attempting to assert their rights. Anyway, I'm reasonably confident that cops in cars tend to identify with other motorists and not with bicyclists. Judging from the quotes in the article attributed to Trooper Sanches, Trooper Sanches is not a bicycle advocate, he's a 'motor vehicles first and foremost' kind of a guy.

To get to the point, though: (1) the article should have provided a source for their statistics, and (2) their statistical claim only examines a very small subset of crashes involving a motorist and a bicyclist - those in which a bicyclist was fatally injured. In addition to not providing a source, what the article also doesn't explain is whether these are stats for Texas, the US or some other geographic entity.

Actually, there's also about zero information in that article that would allow a determination of who was at fault in the particular crash the article is discussing:

"Polk County authorities say Chris Tucker rode his bike in front of a truck driven by Priscilla Thompson of Livingston"

Huh??

Last edited by randya; 12-07-04 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 12-07-04, 08:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randya

Actually, there's also about zero information in that article that would allow a determination of who was at fault in the particular crash the article is discussing:

"Polk County authorities say Chris Tucker rode his bike in front of a truck driven by Priscilla Thompson of Livingston"

Huh??
Note the source of the article: a local TV station. They are only accountable to their advertisers, not the Fact Nazis, aka college professors who insists on proper footnotes.
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Old 12-07-04, 08:44 PM   #8
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"Research shows..." should be followed by references to that research, whenever the media is involved. If references to specific studies are not given, there is no way to verify it.

And if references to scientific studies are given, often there are other studies that came up with different results. If two or more separate studies by reputable sources show similar results, it strengthens the case.

No references? Weak case.
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Old 12-07-04, 08:57 PM   #9
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If its the word of the cyclist against the word of the motorist, it will always be the cyclists fault if the cyclist is dead.
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Old 12-07-04, 09:07 PM   #10
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What a sham! "Research shows...watching TV leads to obesity." That is something you will never hear them state ;0). "Research shows....driving your car may be hazardous to your health." another quote...they won't state. What a joke they don't even present where they got their supposed, "research." I guess they just did a google and picked what met their fancy. Here is a link to more info on the, "reporter" who did this, "facinating" story... http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2083598

Here is a snippet: Ramonica R. Jones comes to KTRE-TV with a print journalism background. She joined the East Texas News team in May 2004, following a brief stint as a reporter / photographer at KSAN-TV in San Angelo, Texas. Prior to making the move to television, Ramonica worked as an intern with the Austin American Statesman and as a writer for Houston Style Magazine and the Lufkin Daily News.

She sounds like a, "Green Horn" to me... Her first, "big" story ;0)

Here is a link to some stats that actually show the source of where their "Research" comes from....

http://www.massbike.org/info1/stats.htm

Here is a quote that I believe shows the percentage to be much lower:

"In his analysis of the Cross and Fisher data, Forester found that the cyclist was riding in the roadway in the direction of traffic in only 37% of all car-bike collisions—in the remaining cases, the majority, the cyclist was entering the roadway, riding against traffic, turning or swerving from the curb lane, or riding on the sidewalk. In general, bicyclists are more likely to be at fault (in the sense of disobeying the rules for drivers of vehicles) than motorists when the two collide. The figures in the 1996 Hunter et al. study reveal that the bicyclist was solely at fault in 54% of cases, the motorist solely in 30%, and both were at fault in 30% of car-bike collisions where culpability was determined."

Another example of, "cut and paste" TV Journalsim @ it's best ;0)

I wouldn't even waste any more time with this dribble. ;0)

Peace,

kb0tnv

Last edited by kb0tnv; 12-07-04 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 12-07-04, 09:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewP
If its the word of the cyclist against the word of the motorist, it will always be the cyclists fault if the cyclist is dead.
I was about to make that very point myself. "At fault" depends very much on the viewpoint of the beholder, and as Andrew said, it's much easier to apportion blame if one party to the "accident" has been killed -- it kinda negates the need to press charges. When I start seeing phrases like "about 75%" I know they've just plucked the figure from thin air.

I think all we can do is ask the questions "who says" and "so what" when we see stats like this. And if they fall at the first one (as this one did), just consign them to the bin.
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Old 12-07-04, 09:37 PM   #12
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Well, not being one to pass on something as meaty as an uncited statistic, I wrote the following to the News Director of KTRE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Brilliance
Dear Ms. Alexander,

I would like to ask a question about an article on your website dated December 7, 2004, entitled: Man Killed in Bicycle Crash.

At the end of the story, Ramonica Jones cites the following alarming statistic:

" Research shows about 75 percent of bicyclists are at fault in fatal accidents involving a car."

I would like to know where that information comes from, since there is no direct citation of any studies of any kind in the story. Any clarification of this statistic would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much for your time,
Vincent M. Ferrari
I'm not exactly expecting an answer, but who knows. If I get one, you guys will be the first to know.
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Old 12-07-04, 09:46 PM   #13
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The way I bike, I'd expect at least 75% of any accidents I get into to be my fault.
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Old 12-07-04, 10:01 PM   #14
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In a quarter million miles of bicycling have been hit 3 times.
One: by a 'newbie' 16 year old; he got the ticket for failing to yield right of way at a stop sign.
Second: by a drunk truck driver, hit from behind at 45 mph. He got ticket and license suspended for 3 months.
Third: by a 75 year old (bright sunny day at high noon) with glaucoma and a restricted drivers license who hit us from behind on our tandem at about 40 mph. He got ticket and loss of license.
This are personal statistics.
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Old 12-08-04, 11:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonatandem
In a quarter million miles of bicycling have been hit 3 times.
One: by a 'newbie' 16 year old; he got the ticket for failing to yield right of way at a stop sign.
Second: by a drunk truck driver, hit from behind at 45 mph. He got ticket and license suspended for 3 months.
Third: by a 75 year old (bright sunny day at high noon) with glaucoma and a restricted drivers license who hit us from behind on our tandem at about 40 mph. He got ticket and loss of license.
This are personal statistics.
Yeah, I too have similar statistics... 3 accidents and all three times the motorist got ticketed AND had to pay for my bike and any medical. (2 times, not much, third time I got some major hurt)

OK that's two of us... Now all the rest of the live cyclists out there... what are your stats.

Sounds like it is only dead cyclists are part of their "75% statistic... " just like that woman that ran over those teens in Florida seems to have a different story than the kids and the witness. Gee, funny thing that.
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Old 12-08-04, 11:21 AM   #16
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Got an email back from KTRE. The News Director told me that the reporter will get the link to the study and let me know. We shall see.
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Old 12-08-04, 12:11 PM   #17
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I just looked at the link to the news story from the original post. It appears the statistic is being attributed to Ken Kifer by way of a link to the Ken Kifer pages.

"According to www.kenkifer.com/bikepages, most bicyclists are at fault in fatal accidents involving a car."

This differs from the cut and paste that was originally posted here. The "about 75%" stat quoted by the reporter has been replaced by the above.

It's interesting to note that this reporter is attributing her accident statistics to a man who himself was killed by a motor vehicle, while riding his bike.
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Old 12-08-04, 12:32 PM   #18
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75% seems about right to me. Don't forget that most "bicyclist" are children.
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Old 12-08-04, 12:34 PM   #19
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I'd say "most" is a quite welcome change from "about 75%." I'm pretty happy that they've changed the language and cited a source now.
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Old 12-08-04, 12:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
Now all the rest of the live cyclists out there... what are your stats.
My actual physical contact with cars while bicycling:

Three dooring incidents, only one of which was potentially serious - I was knocked to the ground and sprained both my wrists, luckily there was no traffic coming.

One car pulled out from a side street into my path.

One low-speed sideswipe by a merging motorist in heavy traffic.

When: Four of these five incidents occurred over 20 years ago, one dooring occurred in the past year.
Where geographically: Three in suburban Long Island, NY; one in Buffalo, NY; and one in Portland, OR.
Police reports filed: zero.
Close calls over the years caused by motorists: too many to count, including another one this morning...
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Old 12-08-04, 12:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay677
It's interesting to note that this reporter is attributing her accident statistics to a man who himself was killed by a motor vehicle, while riding his bike.
And a drunk driver was convicted...

Bicyclist at fault 0, Motorist at fault 1

Anyway, that's just a link to the home page of the Ken Kifer website...not a link to any statistics therein...
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Old 12-08-04, 01:24 PM   #22
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Probably means "at fault of being in the way of a speeding/badly driven car".

Accidents my fault: 0
Near misses by speeders: lost count (one or more a day)
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Old 12-08-04, 01:27 PM   #23
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Accidents ever: 0
Accidents not with cars and caused by my own dumb a$$ falling or hittin' a rut: How much time you got
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Old 12-09-04, 08:45 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenzosi
Accidents ever: 0
Accidents not with cars and caused by my own dumb a$$ falling or hittin' a rut: How much time you got
^ ditto for me LOL

'Course, I ride off-road 90% of the time(to fabricate a statistic for this thread).
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Old 12-09-04, 10:19 AM   #25
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I see so amny more cyclists doing wrong things like riding the wrong direction weaving between parked cars no lights and wearing black at night and running lights. far mroe then I see riding the right way.
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