Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-24-11, 09:03 AM   #1
rydabent
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,856
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
I just dont understand

When it comes to cyclist and bicycles, the police and prosecutors seem to come to a screehing halt. Local happenings and so many posts on bike forums prove this is true. I just dont understant why this is true. There are incidents of a cyclist being run down on the shoulder, and even in a few cases on sidewalks. Yet the motorist get off with a slap on the wrist, if anything at all. This is true even if the motorist is drunk!! Bicycles can be stolen, and the police do nothing more than file paperwork. Sure many bikes that are stolen are cheap superstore bikes, but many can be really expensive high end bikes. Stealing a high end bike amounts to grand thief, yet little is done.

Are any members of this forum policemen, lawyers, or prosecutors, and can they explain why this is business as usual?
rydabent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 09:15 AM   #2
con
Older I get, faster I was
 
con's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: santa cruz
Bikes:
Posts: 654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Itís Thanksgiving, a day to give thanks; It is not called Complaingiving.That is the other 364 days of the year in this forum.
con is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 09:29 AM   #3
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,342
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
..... Sure many bikes that are stolen are cheap superstore bikes, but many can be really expensive high end bikes. Stealing a high end bike amounts to grand thief, yet little is done......


Bicycles are easier to hide, strip down, and are harder to identify than an automobile. Plus, the ridicule that our local law enforcement received, from local residents, on their setting up a bicycle sting operation, I can see why our local law enforcement is now reluctant to put forth any major effort into bicycle theft investigation.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 11:29 AM   #4
v0_boulder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was just talking about this we just don't receive enough respect. Police have more to do than worry about some one getting run over. We have to educate ourselves and others and advocate our position. Till we get noticed by police we won't get the justice we need.
v0_boulder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 11:45 AM   #5
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The police are two-faced when it comes to people and bikes. Police are quick to arrest/stun a cyclist. Yet, Police are disgustingly reluctant to help a cyclist.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 11:49 AM   #6
venturi95
Woof!
 
venturi95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NorCal
Bikes: Breezer Venturi, Lemond Ti, Santa Cruz Blur, Soma Saga, Miyata Colorado
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Prejudice exists. Some cops see riders as a-holes and scoff-laws, and they are assumed to be at fault even in the face of hard evidence. Cops sometimes lie on accident reports (I know this first hand) without repercussion. Thankfully, these types are the minority, and I think as time goes by more police realize that not all adults who ride are DUI riders or weirdos. I have no idea how judges come up with some of the sentences they do. As for stolen bikes, how do you suggest they use limited time and resources to find the purloined bikes? It's just about impossible.
venturi95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 12:11 PM   #7
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,224
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
As for stolen bikes, how do you suggest they use limited time and resources to find the purloined bikes? It's just about impossible.
Several ways. One is through sting operations with bait bikes as mentioned above - hope they'd get more community support than they did in dynodonn's town.

Another way is to have a computer program cross reference between Craigslist and other used bike sales sites vs. the police database of stolen bike reports. Flag any that look similar and have a clerk review those and send out an undercover cop to check out the most promising cases. But we just had a report on the local forums where someone found their own stolen bike listed on Craigslist and the police weren't interested in pursuing it.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-11, 12:24 PM   #8
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,342
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
.....But we just had a report on the local forums where someone found their own stolen bike listed on Craigslist and the police weren't interested in pursuing it.
In this situation, hopefully one could buy it back for penny on the dollars of what they originally paid for it, provided it was still in the same condition when it was stolen, and take more aggressive steps to keep the bike from getting stolen again.

Not a fan of personally confronting thieves, especially in my town.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-11, 12:26 PM   #9
herctrock
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes: Marin Hamilton 29er
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Automobile lobby > bicycle lobby
herctrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-11, 02:24 PM   #10
gcottay
Senior Member
 
gcottay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Green Valley AZ
Bikes: Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
Posts: 3,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some suggestions:
  • Your perceptions are biased by cases that receive notice because they are unusual. (Mine are.)
  • You pay less attention to the results of cases involving two mv drivers. (I do.)
  • Stolen bikes are much harder to find than stolen cars.
  • A stolen car report requires filling out paperwork and often stops there unless and until the car happens to be found.
  • The most serious criminal penalties require proof of intent. Other require proof of negligence.
  • Most police departments/prosecutors/courts are stretched so thin they only survive by doing case triage.
gcottay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-11, 09:08 PM   #11
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
I think it has a lot to do with tribalism. Currently, very few cops, DAs or judges are or know any cyclists, so in the us vs. them paradigm, we're "them". However, as the number of cyclists increases, that is changing.

We had a cop murdered during a traffic stop this year; the officer was on his way home to go for a bike ride when he decided to do one last stop. He had recently begun cycling for fitness. Prior to his death, our local police generally ignored it when cyclists were assaulted or even murdered by scofflaw motorists. The change was evident last week when a drunk 21-year-old ran over a university student who was riding in a bike lane. The drunk was arrested and initially charged with assault. the charge was changed to manslaughter upon the death of the cyclist. Five years ago there would have been no charges filed.
B. Carfree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-11, 09:32 PM   #12
frozen fork
Commuter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Bikes: Kona Blast Deluxe
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Car / truck drivers kill and maim people all of the time and they seem to only ever get slaps on the wrist. Even when they do so whilst driving intoxicated the punishment is limp wristed to say the least. It’s not that cyclists are lower class citizens. It’s more that society values mobility via motorised transport far more than people.
frozen fork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-11, 10:18 PM   #13
crawstuff
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern Redneckistan
Bikes: An inexpensive newer bike with stem shifters and stuff
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Try being friend(ly) to cops it may not help (it hasn't paid off yet for me) but, it gives them one more human face to think about when confronted with these situations.
crawstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 02:45 AM   #14
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
When it comes to cyclist and bicycles, the police and prosecutors seem to come to a screehing halt. Local happenings and so many posts on bike forums prove this is true. I just dont understant why this is true. There are incidents of a cyclist being run down on the shoulder, and even in a few cases on sidewalks. Yet the motorist get off with a slap on the wrist, if anything at all. This is true even if the motorist is drunk!! Bicycles can be stolen, and the police do nothing more than file paperwork. Sure many bikes that are stolen are cheap superstore bikes, but many can be really expensive high end bikes. Stealing a high end bike amounts to grand thief, yet little is done.

Are any members of this forum policemen, lawyers, or prosecutors, and can they explain why this is business as usual?
Don't forget that we've also have heard from at least one member here who either was hit by a motorist and as they're being loaded into the ambulance that a cop told them that they couldn't leave their bike on the side of the road. And that in the case that happened shortly after Trotwood v Selz when two cyclists from W. Va were arrested that their bikes were just left laying on the side of the road. And that luckily there was someone in the crowd of onlookers who recognized the teen and was willing to take custody of the bikes to protect them.

Why aren't bikes given the same consideration as cars? If a person is arrested during the commission of a crime, their car is usually impounded, or if they're in a car crash one of the LEOS call a tow truck to tow the car. But if it's a bike it's left on the side of the road, or the victim is told that they can't leave their bike at the scene of the crash.
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 02:52 AM   #15
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
Prejudice exists. Some cops see riders as a-holes and scoff-laws, and they are assumed to be at fault even in the face of hard evidence. Cops sometimes lie on accident reports (I know this first hand) without repercussion. Thankfully, these types are the minority, and I think as time goes by more police realize that not all adults who ride are DUI riders or weirdos. I have no idea how judges come up with some of the sentences they do. As for stolen bikes, how do you suggest they use limited time and resources to find the purloined bikes? It's just about impossible.
So then why can they find the time and resources to find a stolen car that's worth less then a moderate to high end bicycle?

If they can look for a car that is worth considerably less then a moderate to high end bicycle then they can look for a moderate to high end bicycle.

A friend of mine had not only his but his son's bike stolen. When he went to file a claim he was asked do you really want to do that and have your premium go up?
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 03:02 AM   #16
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
Some suggestions:
  • Your perceptions are biased by cases that receive notice because they are unusual. (Mine are.)
  • You pay less attention to the results of cases involving two mv drivers. (I do.)
  • Stolen bikes are much harder to find than stolen cars.
  • A stolen car report requires filling out paperwork and often stops there unless and until the car happens to be found.
  • The most serious criminal penalties require proof of intent. Other require proof of negligence.
  • Most police departments/prosecutors/courts are stretched so thin they only survive by doing case triage.
The irony though is that as has been stated that there are people with bikes that are worth as much if not more then a lot of the "clunkers" that are currently on the road. And the police don't seem to have much problem in finding either the time or resources to locate those cars. I believe that they have something called a "hot sheet" which lists the stolen automobiles. So why can't they do the same for bicycles?
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 06:48 AM   #17
GeorgeWerr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by con View Post
It’s Thanksgiving, a day to give thanks; It is not called Complaingiving.That is the other 364 days of the year in this forum.
I thank all the cops out there for not doing there JOB
GeorgeWerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 09:37 AM   #18
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,224
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
"But we just had a report on the local forums where someone found their own stolen bike listed on Craigslist and the police weren't interested in pursuing it."

In this situation, hopefully one could buy it back for penny on the dollars of what they originally paid for it, provided it was still in the same condition when it was stolen, and take more aggressive steps to keep the bike from getting stolen again.

Not a fan of personally confronting thieves, especially in my town.
But that does nothing to stop the problem of bike theft - in fact it just rewards the thief and encourages them to continue to steal. OTOH, if the police have someone pretend to be a buyer they could check the serial number and then arrest the seller if the bike is stolen. This would also give the police probable cause for a search. The seller has multiple bikes for sale - not unlikely that at least some of the others are also stolen.

Seems like a relatively small amount of police time in cases like this could have a significant impact on the profitability of bike theft. So it's discouraging that the police weren't interested in pursuing it.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 10:02 AM   #19
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,342
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
But that does nothing to stop the problem of bike theft - in fact it just rewards the thief and encourages them to continue to steal. OTOH, if the police have someone pretend to be a buyer they could check the serial number and then arrest the seller if the bike is stolen. This would also give the police probable cause for a search. The seller has multiple bikes for sale - not unlikely that at least some of the others are also stolen.

Seems like a relatively small amount of police time in cases like this could have a significant impact on the profitability of bike theft. So it's discouraging that the police weren't interested in pursuing it.
Your last comment is why I made my suggestion, if local law enforcement isn't behind you, other than a confrontation with the "possible" thief, what other options would you suggest?

I've listened to a friend who legally busted up a theft ring doing his own footwork, with the help of one local LEO, when our local law enforcement showed little signs of investigating his case.

After some considerable effort, my friend got 16 persons to serve sentences from 3 months to 5 years, but the real irony is that the same local law enforcement was quick to issue a concealed carry permit to my friend after my friend received numerous threats.

Last edited by dynodonn; 11-26-11 at 10:46 AM.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 10:42 AM   #20
rwp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes:
Posts: 400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So then why can they find the time and resources to find a stolen car that's worth less then a moderate to high end bicycle?

If they can look for a car that is worth considerably less then a moderate to high end bicycle then they can look for a moderate to high end bicycle.

A friend of mine had not only his but his son's bike stolen. When he went to file a claim he was asked do you really want to do that and have your premium go up?
Cops won't devote any more time to looking for a stolen car than for a stolen bike or anything else. Stolen cars are recovered more often because they are often abandoned after a joyride or after part stripping. These cars can be identified through VIN numbers and returned to their owners. Recovered bikes are more often auctioned off since the owner can't be found. The cops NEVER "look" for stolen cars.
rwp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 10:44 AM   #21
gcottay
Senior Member
 
gcottay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Green Valley AZ
Bikes: Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
Posts: 3,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
The irony though is that as has been stated that there are people with bikes that are worth as much if not more then a lot of the "clunkers" that are currently on the road. And the police don't seem to have much problem in finding either the time or resources to locate those cars. I believe that they have something called a "hot sheet" which lists the stolen automobiles. So why can't they do the same for bicycles?
Perhaps this is so because both plate and VIN numbers are a matter of easily accessible record for cars with our bikes being put in the same category as stolen electronics, etc.
gcottay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 12:33 PM   #22
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwp View Post
Cops won't devote any more time to looking for a stolen car than for a stolen bike or anything else. Stolen cars are recovered more often because they are often abandoned after a joyride or after part stripping. These cars can be identified through VIN numbers and returned to their owners. Recovered bikes are more often auctioned off since the owner can't be found. The cops NEVER "look" for stolen cars.
Then why do they have a "hot sheet" to see if a car is stolen?
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 12:39 PM   #23
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
Perhaps this is so because both plate and VIN numbers are a matter of easily accessible record for cars with our bikes being put in the same category as stolen electronics, etc.
I'm sorry, but that's just just an excuse for them to be "lazy" and not to do their job. As both bikes and electronics have S/N on them. And they're not that hard to find. Yes, with the S/N being on the bottom of the bottom bracket of most bikes, it requires that the bike be turned upside down.

Maybe it'd be better if the S/N on bikes were stamped on the head tube instead of the bottom bracket.
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 03:40 PM   #24
gcottay
Senior Member
 
gcottay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Green Valley AZ
Bikes: Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
Posts: 3,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
Perhaps this is so because both plate and VIN numbers are a matter of easily accessible record for cars with our bikes being put in the same category as stolen electronics, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I'm sorry, but that's just just an excuse for them to be "lazy" and not to do their job. As both bikes and electronics have S/N on them. And they're not that hard to find. Yes, with the S/N being on the bottom of the bottom bracket of most bikes, it requires that the bike be turned upside down.

Maybe it'd be better if the S/N on bikes were stamped on the head tube instead of the bottom bracket.
I guess you missed the both "easily accessible record" and the presence of a license plate for motor vehicles. That some things are unlike others does not by any rational standard imply slothfulness on the part of law enforcement.
gcottay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-11, 05:55 PM   #25
herctrock
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes: Marin Hamilton 29er
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What we need is a masked vigilante superhero to recover stolen bikes and deliver justice to motorized evildoers (bad drivers).
herctrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 PM.