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  1. #1
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    First Blackhawk, then N+2 ?

    Bike bans in two cities designated as Bicycle Friendly Communities - Albuquerque, N.M., and Charleston, S.C. Ironically, both come in the aftermath of tragic fatal crashes involving cyclists in those communities, and neither of the bans really does anything related to solving the causes of the crashes. In Albuquerque, "No Bicycling" signs appeared last week on Chappell Road - a popular connecting route for area cyclists - and in Charleston riders are threatened with enforcement of a ban on the James Island Connector, a critical link from downtown Charleston to the west.

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  2. #2
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    There are a lot of folks who would like to ban cycling from many, most, or all roads. We have a pretty regular campaign around here to ban us from Territorial Hwy, an historic roadway that started out as a horse and wagon road connecting OR to CA.

    Since the right to travel along the public right-of-way is a common-law right that predates the Constitution, it could get interesting if some of these bans start being challenged in court on those grounds. It could get even more interesting if the U.S. military is correct in their report from May of 2010 wherein they predicted an end to cheap oil by 2015. If that comes to pass, a great many people who are opposed to the use of bicycles may well find themselves in the saddle. I wonder if we will then see moves to ban motor vehicles from the roads?

  3. #3
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Apart from a ban in VA that was proposed for a specific road last year following an accident, if there are(or have been) any other ban petitions that have happened in the MD-DC-VA region, I haven't heard about them.

    It is surprising. I guess cyclists' are blessed in this region.

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    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    Or to be fair, cities could ban autos from an equal number of miles.

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    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Or to be fair, cities could ban autos from an equal number of miles.
    This gave me a sort of funny thought. What if someone at least switched from a gas-powered car(a bike would be better)to an electric-powered car, and there was a power outage. It made me think 'Good(switching to electric-powered car) but not good enough'.
    Last edited by Chris516; 01-25-12 at 10:55 AM.

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    Is everybody else as tired of the epidemic spread of Stupid as I am?

    NO EXCUSES, grown people should know better.

  7. #7
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    Is everybody else as tired of the epidemic spread of Stupid as I am?

    NO EXCUSES, grown people should know better.
    Pretty much, yes!
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  8. #8
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    Is everybody else as tired of the epidemic spread of Stupid as I am?

    NO EXCUSES, grown people should know better.
    Typical!!! Before I fly into Albuquerque again, I want to find out more about their ban, and the pomposity of it.

  9. #9
    Aluminum Convert jbman100's Avatar
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    And the ban has cost Blackhawk a deal of money. I know several cyclist myself included that will not go there because of the ban. Used to go there once a month.
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  10. #10
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    Apart from a ban in VA that was proposed for a specific road last year following an accident, if there are(or have been) any other ban petitions that have happened in the MD-DC-VA region, I haven't heard about them.

    It is surprising. I guess cyclists' are blessed in this region.
    The NPS has banned bicycles from two roads in the area. GW Pkwy south of Old Town and Clara Barton Pkwy in DC/Montgomery County.

    http://www.waba.org/blog/2011/08/nps...ing-community/

  11. #11
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    Is everybody else as tired of the epidemic spread of Stupid as I am?

    NO EXCUSES, grown people should know better.
    What do you believe is causing this spread of "Stupid," and how may it be stopped? (of course this question may change the whole course of this thread...

  12. #12
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    The NPS has banned bicycles from two roads in the area. GW Pkwy south of Old Town and Clara Barton Pkwy in DC/Montgomery County.

    http://www.waba.org/blog/2011/08/nps...ing-community/
    The ban on the GW Mem. Pkwy is the one I was referring to but hadn't mentioned it by name. Regardless, I didn't know about the ban on the Clara Barton Pkwy. The stupid thing about those bans is, they are too specific. There should be a respective statewide ban on roads with certain speed limits. Not specific heavily traveled roads. Just like, bikes not being allowed on 270, 370, 295, 395, 495, etc.

  13. #13
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbman100 View Post
    And the ban has cost Blackhawk a deal of money. I know several cyclist myself included that will not go there because of the ban. Used to go there once a month.
    I wouldn't be surprised if they ban pedestrians.

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    Senior Member mikeybikes's Avatar
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    At least Black Hawk doesn't have a LAB friendly award. Ft. Collins on the other hand, a platinum city, bans bikes from a few miles of the main road through the city.


    Also, btw, the Colorado supreme court has agreed to consider the arguments regarding the Black Hawk ban. Maybe one day cyclists will again be able to ride in Black Hawk.
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  15. #15
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeybikes View Post
    At least Black Hawk doesn't have a LAB friendly award. Ft. Collins on the other hand, a platinum city, bans bikes from a few miles of the main road through the city.
    Hmmm......

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeybikes View Post
    Also, btw, the Colorado supreme court has agreed to consider the arguments regarding the Black Hawk ban. Maybe one day cyclists will again be able to ride in Black Hawk.
    Let's hope so.

  16. #16
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeybikes View Post
    At least Black Hawk doesn't have a LAB friendly award. Ft. Collins on the other hand, a platinum city, bans bikes from a few miles of the main road through the city.


    Also, btw, the Colorado supreme court has agreed to consider the arguments regarding the Black Hawk ban. Maybe one day cyclists will again be able to ride in Black Hawk.
    A ban in of itself is not a death knell for cycling... I really have no issue with a ban on specific roads IF there is a suitable alternative route that gets you to the same destination... I feel the same should also apply to automobiles... they too can and should be banned from certain roads (and ARE in some places).

    The interstate freeway system is an example of cyclists being banned from certain roads... the ban is not universal, nor based on speed, it is posted at on ramps... some areas you can ride on the interstate, others you may not.

    Now in the case of Blackhawk or Albuquerque, N.M., and Charleston, S.C.... is there an alternative route? If not, then that should be protested... as access itself is being denied.

    Is anyone here on BF in any of those areas, or are we just armchair quarterbacking?

  17. #17
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    The NPS has banned bicycles from two roads in the area. GW Pkwy south of Old Town and Clara Barton Pkwy in DC/Montgomery County.

    http://www.waba.org/blog/2011/08/nps...ing-community/
    While I didn't know about the CB Pkwy ban, the Wikipedia page for the GW Mem. Pkwy, has pictures of both. The only thing I could think of was, why would people want to bike on those roads anyway. They are high speed roads with no shoulder or bike lane.

  18. #18
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    A ban in of itself is not a death knell for cycling... I really have no issue with a ban on specific roads IF there is a suitable alternative route that gets you to the same destination... I feel the same should also apply to automobiles... they too can and should be banned from certain roads (and ARE in some places).

    The interstate freeway system is an example of cyclists being banned from certain roads... the ban is not universal, nor based on speed, it is posted at on ramps... some areas you can ride on the interstate, others you may not.

    Now in the case of Blackhawk or Albuquerque, N.M., and Charleston, S.C.... is there an alternative route? If not, then that should be protested... as access itself is being denied.

    Is anyone here on BF in any of those areas, or are we just armchair quarterbacking?
    I go out to Santa Fe once or twice a year by flying into Albuquerque. When I go between Albuquerque n' Santa Fe, the road ban doesn't make much of a difference, since the state has a good trail system.

    When I lived in Duluth(MN) back in 2004, I once took a trip intending to go to a community not far south of MSP. In Duluth, I had left my apartment connecting with the Willard Munger State Trail a few miles away. The trail parallels I-35(goes from Duluth south to Houston, TX). I didn't go on I-35 regardless of the ban, because it was too dangerous. The same for the GW Pkwy and the CB Pkwy. They are too dangerous to bike on.

  19. #19
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbman100 View Post
    And the ban has cost Blackhawk a deal of money. I know several cyclist myself included that will not go there because of the ban. Used to go there once a month.
    Boo hoo on Blackhawk....'Stupid(Blackhawk) is, as stupid does'.

  20. #20
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    While I didn't know about the CB Pkwy ban, the Wikipedia page for the GW Mem. Pkwy, has pictures of both. The only thing I could think of was, why would people want to bike on those roads anyway. They are high speed roads with no shoulder or bike lane.
    well, chris, sometimes people have to use "high speed roads" while bicycling to get somewhere. or want to. Bicyclists shouldn't be banned from roads with a speed limit some riders -or municipalities- find unreasonable for bike traffic.

    sometimes, in suburban areas, 'high speed' roads without shoulder or bikelane are, unfortunately, the only expedient way to get places on a bicycle. they should be better engineered for bike traffic, but they shouldn't have bans enacted simply due to speed differential.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    While I didn't know about the CB Pkwy ban, the Wikipedia page for the GW Mem. Pkwy, has pictures of both. The only thing I could think of was, why would people want to bike on those roads anyway. They are high speed roads with no shoulder or bike lane.
    GW parkway is probably a nice road to ride on sometimes. The problem is all the people that live in the sprawl around D.C. that use it to commute. It really doesn't have much non-commuting traffic

  22. #22
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    well, chris, sometimes people have to use "high speed roads" while bicycling to get somewhere. or want to. Bicyclists shouldn't be banned from roads with a speed limit some riders -or municipalities- find unreasonable for bike traffic.

    sometimes, in suburban areas, 'high speed' roads without shoulder or bikelane are, unfortunately, the only expedient way to get places on a bicycle. they should be better engineered for bike traffic, but they shouldn't have bans enacted simply due to speed differential.
    Nice thinking Bek, but this IS in fact the case with much of our interstate highway system that even usually has 8+ foot wide shoulders that are far nicer to ride on than a 3 foot+ gutter pan bike lanes on 55MPH roads.

  23. #23
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    gee, gene. i've ridden plenty of miles of interstates where its legal to ride. its not the speed differential. and you do see i suggest high speed roads SHOULD be better planned for bike traffic?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  24. #24
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    GW parkway is probably a nice road to ride on sometimes. The problem is all the people that live in the sprawl around D.C. that use it to commute. It really doesn't have much non-commuting traffic
    It is a major rush-hour artery that, isn't much slower during non-rush hours.

  25. #25
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    well, Chris, sometimes people have to use "high speed roads" while bicycling to get somewhere. or want to. Bicyclists shouldn't be banned from roads with a speed limit some riders -or municipalities- find unreasonable for bike traffic.

    sometimes, in suburban areas, 'high speed' roads without shoulder or a bike lane are, unfortunately, the only expedient way to get places on a bicycle. they should be better engineered for bike traffic, but they shouldn't have bans enacted simply due to speed differential.
    In the case of GW Mem. Pkwy, it parallels the Mount Vernon (bike/ped) Trail. So there is an alternative that motorized vehicles are obviously banned from using.

    But yes, a lack of 'cycling infrastructure' does necessitate, the possibility of having to travel on 'high speed' roads.

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