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Old 12-16-04, 02:20 PM   #1
live311
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This forum is a real downer

I thought it was called "Advocacy and Safety." I didn't know people would use it exclusively to post tragic stories about hurt/dead cyclists and bash SUV drivers. Could someone please post something positive here? At least one happy thread for every thread about death would be nice

kthxbye
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Old 12-16-04, 02:31 PM   #2
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good idea and then lets put the hurt dead cyclists stories and SUV bashing in the "Jokes & Humour forum"

then we could continue and take all those pesky boring posts about singlespeed bikes and put them in the Road bike forum

and then..blah blah
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Old 12-16-04, 02:45 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by royalflash
good idea and then lets put the hurt dead cyclists stories and SUV bashing in the "Jokes & Humour forum"

then we could continue and take all those pesky boring posts about singlespeed bikes and put them in the Road bike forum

and then..blah blah
Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying! Finally, someone who understands me! Thank you!
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Old 12-16-04, 02:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live311
I thought it was called "Advocacy and Safety." I didn't know people would use it exclusively to post tragic stories about hurt/dead cyclists and bash SUV drivers. Could someone please post something positive here? At least one happy thread for every thread about death would be nice

kthxbye
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Old 12-16-04, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live311
I thought it was called "Advocacy and Safety." I didn't know people would use it exclusively to post tragic stories about hurt/dead cyclists and bash SUV drivers. Could someone please post something positive here? At least one happy thread for every thread about death would be nice

kthxbye
There is no other forum to place these sad events. There is this fascination about the macabre when it comes to cycling. I guess if this were a football forum, we would be talking about injuries and broken bones. Like it or not, we are in a sport/activity where life and death go hand in hand.
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Old 12-16-04, 04:28 PM   #6
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It's a reality of our sport. We're out there on the roads with automobiles and other people. It seems macabre and it's depressing to read all these stories about people getting hurt and even killed, but it promotes awareness of an unpleasant reality: people on bikes get hurt and we need to be careful to try and avoid that.
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Old 12-16-04, 04:31 PM   #7
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Report of accidents should only be posted if there is something that riders can learn from the event, apart from the fact that motor vehicles can be dangerous.
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Old 12-16-04, 04:43 PM   #8
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I think the accidents should be posted for:

a) We can discuss what went wrong.
b) And educate ourselves and others about them.
c) Remind us while bicycling is generally safe, there are risk involved.

Anyone who rides a bike knows that an accident is a real possibility over time. Maybe by learning a little bit from the discussions that occur when accidents are posted, perhaps lessons will be learned that will enable us to perhaps avoid one ourselves. For example, the one I posted about the I-10 accident. Gives people a chance to examine if riding on the Interstate is safe or not, especially since that accident happened at rush time and dusk.

Discussing such things reminds us of the dangers of unsafe riding. Perhaps even lurkers who are not bicyclist but drivers can learn lessons also from posting them.

Cheers,
BLake
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Old 12-16-04, 06:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
I think the accidents should be posted for:

a) We can discuss what went wrong.
b) And educate ourselves and others about them.
c) Remind us while bicycling is generally safe, there are risk involved.
Maybe enrolling in an Effective Cycling bike course would be a better first step instead of analysing cyclist accidents on information which in most cases is scant, secondhand and most likely inaccurate, particularly as to cause.

Realistically, we can all get tied up in knots about the individual tragedies and who or what is to blame, but the big picture says the number of deaths and injuries is actually quite small. Maybe we should post over the next week all the motorist deaths that we come across, just as a comparison.

The only thing the continued and prominent promotion of and morbid interest in cycling deaths achieves is to reinforce the notion in the majority of the community's mind that cycling is inherently unsafe and therefore is neither a recreational nor transport option.
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Old 12-16-04, 06:13 PM   #10
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No one is forcing you to read them.
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Old 12-16-04, 06:14 PM   #11
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i do find it odd that there seems to be some kind of fascination on this forum with bike tragedies...it's almost some kind of "us vs. them" victim psychology, like cyclists are some down-trodden group being attacked by the rest of the world. i don't get it. it's a sport, an activity, and stuff happens. but here you get the impression like cyclists are some kind of unfortunate minority that is the recipient of all the world's horrors and we all need to band together to protect ourselves from the rest of the world.

stuff happens, man. cyclists get hit. people drown. rock climbers fall. houses burn down. life is risky...

i'm not complaining about it, mind you...it's just an impression i get...maybe it's just a personal focus on comments from a few and not indicative of this forum as a whole...i dunno...
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Old 12-16-04, 06:43 PM   #12
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(1) I don't think most people posting to the safety and advocacy section of these forums view cycling primarily as sport or recreation; rather, I think they view cycling primarily as a form of transportation.

(2) John Forester may have some good ideas, but he isn't god, nor is he the last word on all things having to do with cycling safety.
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Old 12-16-04, 06:53 PM   #13
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Hey, in the last tragedy thread we found out the apparent weight of a deer, with and without the rubber strip.
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Old 12-16-04, 11:27 PM   #14
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What Randya said.
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Old 12-17-04, 01:39 AM   #15
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You sound like a real self-serving jerk. What do you want to hear about? How old are you? Do you have kids of your own? I doubt it. SUV drivers can be real jerks on the roads, along with drivers of small cars, drunk drivers, old drivers, teenagers. They are all a danger to bicyclists and pedestrians, and when you grow up and have kids or your own one day, maybe you'll understand and be a little more compassionate. I bet if you got run over by an SUV you'd be complaining about it too. You'd probably be the biggest whiner out of them all. Shut up and show some compassion.
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Old 12-17-04, 01:57 AM   #16
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I love your last line "shut up and show some compassion". Isn't that rather oxymoronic? Anyways all he was asking is for a few positive stories to counter the negative. He didn't say don't post about SUV drivers and deaths, just try to post some positive stories once and awhile. We DO tend to focus on the negative.

Heres a quote the original poster would probably recognize and resonate with:

"one thing I got to say before sales dive
stay positive and love your life"

-311.transistor.jupiter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey11
You sound like a real self-serving jerk. What do you want to hear about? How old are you? Do you have kids of your own? I doubt it. SUV drivers can be real jerks on the roads, along with drivers of small cars, drunk drivers, old drivers, teenagers. They are all a danger to bicyclists and pedestrians, and when you grow up and have kids or your own one day, maybe you'll understand and be a little more compassionate. I bet if you got run over by an SUV you'd be complaining about it too. You'd probably be the biggest whiner out of them all. Shut up and show some compassion.
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Old 12-17-04, 02:10 AM   #17
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You get the point.
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Old 12-17-04, 03:17 AM   #18
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well it's either tragedies or everyone starts bashing each other or both

and as for SUVs I guess you consiter a mini-van one, well I drive one
cause all the dang cars are too small for my family
you cant put 4 kids in a car these days

and like others said it aint just SUVs
it's the driver and it dont matter what they are driving
I am sorry to hear most of the stories that get posted expectly when it's a kid

but then the media isnt goin to give the cycilest a break anyway cause we are just
big kids on toys that havent grown up enough to buy a car
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Old 12-17-04, 06:11 AM   #19
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Dammit I was just about to start a new thread for posting pictures of road rash! I guess I'll start one for pictures of flowers alongside the road instead, cept it's December...what to do, what to do?

This forum is a real downer, oneupmanship runs rampant whether it's how bad a fall you had or how many axles the vehicle you went under had or how you dented the hood of a car with your ulock.

It'd be nicer with less of that sort of postings and more frequent postings from newcomers with q & a or people who do things in cycling advocacy to talk more about it and what can be done in a readers area from a not so activist perspective. Or any number of other things beyond accidents and the resulting carnage.
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Old 12-17-04, 06:25 AM   #20
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I agree with gpsblake that the discussion about what went wrong can help us aboid similar problems. As to John Forester, Randya is correct, he isn't god. But he's mostly right. Most of his critics focus on making cyclists feel safer. Forester focuses on making cyclists be safer. Generally speaking, effective cycling supporters love to debate bicycle safety. Generally speaking, critics of Effective Cycling refuse to debate (there are exceptions to that rule in this forum).

I love this Notice of Close-Mindedness on the Bicyclesafe website:
Note to "Effective Cycling" fans: If you're about to send me an email telling me how stupid the advice on this site is, please save yourself the trouble. Trust me, I've heard all the arguments before (ad nauseum) and I simply disagree. I never write to EC websites to complain that I don't like THEIR advice, so I really wish you rabid EC's would stop sending insulting mail to ME.

Last edited by Daily Commute; 12-17-04 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 12-17-04, 06:51 AM   #21
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You been there, too, eh?

You know, the sad part about all this is that there are elements on both sides that I can see and understand. There are occasions when one works and the other doesn't. And vice-versa. I delivered tonight the third session of a course I run , and I referred to Forester *and* Franklin *and* Allen. All express the same sorts of principles. Am I a disciple of one or the other or all? No, I am a disciple of my own experience which ironically, reflects pretty much what these three men put forward.
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Old 12-17-04, 08:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live311
I thought it was called "Advocacy and Safety." I didn't know people would use it exclusively to post tragic stories about hurt/dead cyclists and bash SUV drivers. Could someone please post something positive here? At least one happy thread for every thread about death would be nice

kthxbye
If you don't like the show, change the channel. Try Jokes and Humor.
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Old 12-17-04, 08:47 AM   #23
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Life sucks and then ya die.

All cheered up yet?

HTH
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Old 12-17-04, 10:51 AM   #24
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I feel the same way about this forum, lot's of whining, too negative. I do check in from time to time as there are some constructive posts.
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Old 12-17-04, 12:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live311
Could someone please post something positive here? At least one happy thread for every thread about death would be nice
Nobody is stopping you from starting positive threads (although I don't think this one qualifies.) Lead by example.
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