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Old 12-19-04, 09:10 AM   #1
holicow
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To the guy riding on Country Club road, W-S, yesterday

That was me yelling at you from my car as you rode through the red light at Country Club and PeaceHaven, here in Winston-Salem.

You know all those cars that passed you going up the hill to the light (while the road was 3 lanes, and easy to get around you)? Now they all have to go around you again, and now the road is only 2 lanes, after you rode between the lanes of stopped vehicles, inches from each, including mine.

I can't ride anymore after a crash this summer, but when I did, I always wondered why people would sometimes throw things at me, or play chicken and see how close they could get, or yell at me. I rode carefully and always stayed as far over as possible, never passed stopped cars (stayed in line), obeyed traffic lights, etc. Why were they mad at me?

YOU are why.

If I (who rides in spirit, if not in body) can get mad at a cyclist, enough to yell out my window, just imagine how some of the less considerate, ignorant people who drive will feel.

If you read this, whoever you are, wake up and start setting a better example. People like you ruin it for the rest of us.

Sincerely,

Mike
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Old 12-19-04, 09:54 AM   #2
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I've been known to yell "Red light!" and "Turn signal," at some of these morons out there when I'm driving.

I never wonder why drivers hate cyclists anymore. I know why.
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Old 12-19-04, 10:40 AM   #3
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In case you aren't sure if it was you, or not (maybe you weren't the only one). You had a plain long-sleeved red jersey, black tights, and it was about 2 pm.

Thanks
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Old 12-19-04, 10:49 AM   #4
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While this cyclist was certainly wrong to run the red light, I personally would not generalize the behavior of one or even most cyclist to all cyclists. If a motorist is frustrated by a cyclist who rides irresponsibly, and decides to take that frustration out on me, I will blame the motorist only and not the cyclist. The same goes for motorist. If one motorist is aggressive and reckless, I will not take out my frustration with the aggressive motorist on motorist who drive responsibly. Any motorist who decides to generalize on all cyclists because of one or most bicycle riders and further decides to drive dangerously around all cyclists because of this generalization has some problmes of his/her own unrelated to the irresponsible bike rider.
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Old 12-19-04, 01:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Simplebiker
While this cyclist was certainly wrong to run the red light, I personally would not generalize the behavior of one or even most cyclist to all cyclists.
That's all fine and dandy in the land of Perfect, but there are a lot of motorists out there that judge our whole group by the actions of a few.

Now I don't just go yelling stuff at random cyclists on the side of the road. If I see someone commiting an act of stupidity right in front of me, damnit, he's gonna hear about it. No, I'm not gonna swerve at him or something like that, but if I let him on his way without some verbal whiplash, he's going to think he did nothing wrong and continue to muck up the streets.
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Old 12-19-04, 01:28 PM   #6
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Don't yell, it's not nice. Mad because a cyclist cut lanes at a stop and ran the red? Don't be such a hothead.
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Old 12-19-04, 01:30 PM   #7
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It's one thing to honk at a cyclist to let him or her know you are not happy with the way they are riding. I sometimes do that myself.

I't quite another thing to start imagining that other people are to blame for your problems. Try to resist the urge!

Tom
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Old 12-19-04, 01:50 PM   #8
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One of the enjoyable aspects of cycling is cycling down lanes of stationary cars.

What is wrong with that!?

Honking or shouting at a cyclist is not very clever as it may cause a weaker cyclist to crash.
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Old 12-19-04, 02:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ukmtk
One of the enjoyable aspects of cycling is cycling down lanes of stationary cars.

What is wrong with that!?
Other than its completely illegal, nothing!
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Old 12-19-04, 02:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukmtk
One of the enjoyable aspects of cycling is cycling down lanes of stationary cars.

What is wrong with that!?
From time's up NYC:Fellow Cyclist Killed in Midtown (victim of an apparent dooring)
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Old 12-19-04, 02:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
Don't yell, it's not nice. Mad because a cyclist cut lanes at a stop and ran the red? Don't be such a hothead.
Let me guess, you're the same guy that replies in the "Another cyclist dead" threads and says that the cars are all to blame and bla bla bla.

The sad truth is that there are a lot of cyclists out there breaking laws and don't think much of it. As soon as they die or get hit, we say "Oh, that's terrible. Damn cagers!" Now I'm not saying that everyone that gets hit is breaking the law. If they are, they don't deserve my sympathy.
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Old 12-19-04, 03:20 PM   #12
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Sounds like somebody is upset because he had to slow down twice to pass a cyclist.

Admit it. It's really not about running a red light.
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Old 12-19-04, 03:59 PM   #13
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Arrogant cyclists make me as angry as arrogant motorists. Nah, make that more angry. At the intersection closest to my place of work we've had two incidents this year wherein some twit on a bike rode straight into the rear of a vehicle after having ignored a stop sign. Both of them earned a trip to the emergency room.

I've been cut off at the same intersection in my car by "cyclists" who could plainly see that I had stopped first and yet blithely sailed through (one or two of them have even raised their hands in a friendly gesture as thanks to me for aiding and abetting their careless behavior). I would have liked to have chased them down and explained at length to them the error of their ways; to continue the fantasy, they are always contrite and offer up their helmets to me to better facilitate my sharp raps to their skulls. As this is unlikely to happen, I instead merely point to the stop sign and hope that they're overcome by remorse. Thus far I've no evidence that this has ever occured.
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Old 12-19-04, 05:18 PM   #14
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Interesting responses. I am glad others at least understand that, like it or not, every cyclist is a representative of the group. In the real world, non-cyclists (in cars), form their opinion of our group by what they see and experience. Believe me, the bad is remembered more than the good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by supcom
Sounds like somebody is upset because he had to slow down twice to pass a cyclist.

Admit it. It's really not about running a red light.
As for this: I was turning on to the road ahead of him, from a parts store near the intersection, as he was coming up the hill...that's the first I saw of him. I saw him next about 2 inches from my window as he snaked between the lanes, then ran the red. I was in the right-turn lane, turning right of course. I never had to pass him, but he passed me.

And I don't mind at all slowing down to pass another cyclist. I'm the guy that would wave at every car that passed me safely. "There's that crazy waving bike guy, again. Just wave back and maybe he will stop."

So there.
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Old 12-19-04, 05:33 PM   #15
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Other than its completely illegal, nothing!
Luckily down here it isn't illegal, I'd never get anywhere otherwise. We are allowed to pass stationary and moving cars on the left (passenger side).

CHEERS.

Mark
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Old 12-19-04, 06:01 PM   #16
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... unless they are indicating to turn left.
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Old 12-19-04, 09:52 PM   #17
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Luckily down here it isn't illegal, I'd never get anywhere otherwise. We are allowed to pass stationary and moving cars on the left (passenger side).

CHEERS.

Mark
From some of the posts on this forum, it sounds like many would wait in a mile long line of cars at a light in rush hour traffic, rahter than ride by on the right side in a wide lane. I don't ride up between the lanes of cars, but I do ride up to the light on the right hand side, if it's clear. On most roads here, that means a nice, wide, striped bike lane.
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Old 12-20-04, 03:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holicow
Interesting responses. I am glad others at least understand that, like it or not, every cyclist is a representative of the group. In the real world, non-cyclists (in cars), form their opinion of our group by what they see and experience. Believe me, the bad is remembered more than the good.
Alright, I'll stop you there. A bit of research and you'll realise that motorists (and everyone else for that matter) form their opinions of others on the basis of their own prejudices moreso than anything else. Why is it that some can experience a situation like the one you describe, and judge the entire group, while others can see it for what it is (i.e. one lunatic)? It's because we always see what we want to see.

Here's a tip: Spend some time riding around some different areas in different parts of the country. You'll soon notice that the areas with the worst treatment of cyclists are the same ones with high levels of other forms of bigotry (such as racism or homophobia). I suspect it's the same bigots in all cases.

Also interesting to note that you seem more upset about "giving me a bad name" than any belief that running a red light is wrong. It might be time to ask who's the self-centred, arrogant one here.
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Old 12-20-04, 05:35 AM   #19
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The cyclist shouldn't have run the light, but one thing I hate is when cars pass me just before a red light. I often pace myself so I hit the light as it turns green. But when a car races past me and stops, I have two choices, stop behind it or pass it. I generally pass it.

Cars sometimes get in my way, too. Once, a line of cars passed me going up a hill. I was going 10-15 mph, they were going 25 mph. On the way down the other side, they stayed at 25 mph, I passed them going 30 mph.

Cars should follow the same rule cyclists do when passing--don't pass unless you can stay ahead. Cars must also realize that sometimes cyclists will cause them to slow down. Sometimes more than once.

Holicow, how long was your total delay caused by this cyclist? My guess is that you put more time into typing out your post than you spent delayed by the cyclist.
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Old 12-20-04, 09:47 AM   #20
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Holicow, how long was your total delay caused by this cyclist? My guess is that you put more time into typing out your post than you spent delayed by the cyclist.
Read my last post. I was not delayed at all by him, I never had to go around him. But others did, and some of them twice. I venture the second time was not as gracious as the first, especially that the road narrowed to 2 lanes after the light he blew throught.

I don't mind slowing for other cyclists. Why would I? I appreciated it when cars slowed for me, and enjoy doing the same for other riders. What bothers me is flaunting/breaking the rules. A lot of the population sees cyclists as narcissistic elitists who think rules don't apply to them, and what this guy did reinforces that perception. They (the neanderthals that are prone to this) take out their dislike on the next rider they see. There are a lot of those (neanderthals, that is) around here.

Some of the resonses here also reinforce that view, don't they?
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Old 12-20-04, 10:17 AM   #21
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Some of your cro-magnon is showing, holicow.

Cyclists ride on two lane roads ALL THE TIME. Cars pass bikes ALL THE TIME. And you were yelling because he passed between you in a right hand turn lane and the straight lanes of traffic, and ran a red light? I don't think self loving elitism is a motivating factor for a cyclist while disobaying traffic laws, it's forward momentum. You need to cool out. And you say you are (were) a cyclist? Don't be such a hothead.
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Old 12-20-04, 10:27 AM   #22
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As I said, the cyclist should not have run the red, but I will sometimes thread through traffic at a light if the traffic has passed me as I approached the light. I'm not saying this is the smartest thing in the world to do, but it's a little pay back for passing me rudely. In this case, the drivers should not have passed the cyclist if they were approaching a red light.
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Old 12-20-04, 12:08 PM   #23
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Good grief, I didn't expect to be chastised for wanting someone to follow traffic laws. Do any of you who disagree with me get heckled or brushed to the side when you ride? What is your response when it happens? Do you give the one-finger salute and get mad when it happens again? Do you expect everyone else to watch out for you and get upset when they don't?

It's also for his own good, too, and that's why the laws exist, to protect everyone.
And they are not subject to the discretion of an individual. That is a major intersection where he blew off the red, and the site of frequent car accidents. He could have easily become a statistic. Is it only bad if something bad happens? Give me a break.
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Old 12-20-04, 12:34 PM   #24
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Running a red at the interection you describe sounds nuts. That's one of the few things I wish cops were more aggressive about ticketing. Weaving through stopped traffic is generally dangerous. The key is to make sure you integrate yourself back into the line before it starts moving. If you can't do that, you should wait your turn.

And I only said weaving through traffic was excusable when you pass cars that should have waited their turn behind you. Cars shouldn't pass bikes only to slam on their brakes at a red light. I don't know if that's the case here.
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Old 12-20-04, 12:38 PM   #25
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But do the motorists that complain about cyclists jumping red lights religiously obey the speed limits!?

I don't think so.

When in a car I do obey the speed limits.
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