Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

I just don't get it about the mirrors.

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

I just don't get it about the mirrors.

Old 07-25-12, 03:37 PM
  #501  
Senior Member
 
bandit1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE
No. We can agree on my statement. We just need to try a little harder.
I agree with Spike. Sorry Bek.
bandit1990 is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 03:45 PM
  #502  
Senior Member
 
Pistard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Columbia county, NY
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I bet you most 50+ guys have mirrors, they do where I ride, I wont ride without one, most of the people I see cant hold a line when they look back...
Pistard is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 04:13 PM
  #503  
Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad
 
Rx Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Front Range
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pistard
I bet you most 50+ guys have mirrors, they do where I ride, I wont ride without one, most of the people I see cant hold a line when they look back...
it's a skill best not learned on a busy or car strewn avenue that's for sure. usually a turn of the head is followed by a turn of the handlebar. I often turn to look over both shoulders not for the view, but for the stretch. most glances are a head turn to 3 o'clock and a peripheral look. if i'm in the drops it's very easy to look under my armpit and get a good view, albeit an upside down one. I usually ignore what's going on behind me because of how often I see a car in the bike lane behind me, that ends up giving me plenty of room when it passes. it's better for me to not stress about what if . . .
you can argue efficiency if you want but we don't run on batteries and I won't run out of gas because I looked behind me.
Rx Rider is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 04:19 PM
  #504  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
"Better" or bettor? What sort of waffling are the quotes implying.

Many people manage just fine without mirrors. Some people are worse with mirrors.

Oddly, a tail-light is just there: it doesn't require any sort of technique.
How can someone be worse with a mirror... what are they doing, staring at it all the time?
genec is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 06:30 PM
  #505  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
OK, I just got back from a 28 mile ride out to Audubon, PA and back home on the local MUP.

Every bike I passed... all bikes going in my direction... the people with mirrors seemed to be completely clueless, and seemed to be completely surprised when I passed, even if I used my bell and shouted that I was passing on the left. The people without mirrors typically made eye contact with me several times during the 100 yards when I was approaching them and overtaking them, and never broke their line.

The burning question:

Do mirrors cause people to be (or become) clueless, or is it that clueless people gravitate toward using mirrors?
SPlKE is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 06:43 PM
  #506  
Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad
 
Rx Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Front Range
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE
The burning question:
Do mirrors cause people to be (or become) clueless, or is it that clueless people gravitate toward using mirrors?
I'd wager that folks that are brand new to cycling are being sold everything a bike store has to sell. that's how I ended up with my cool sparkly streamers and handlebar coffee cup holder.
Rx Rider is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 07:52 PM
  #507  
Senior Member
 
skye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by SPlKE
OK, I just got back from a 28 mile ride out to Audubon, PA and back home on the local MUP.

Every bike I passed... all bikes going in my direction... the people with mirrors seemed to be completely clueless, and seemed to be completely surprised when I passed, even if I used my bell and shouted that I was passing on the left. The people without mirrors typically made eye contact with me several times during the 100 yards when I was approaching them and overtaking them, and never broke their line.

The burning question:

Do mirrors cause people to be (or become) clueless, or is it that clueless people gravitate toward using mirrors?
I'm absolutely certain that your singular experience on one day during a short ride is absolutely and impeccably representative of the cycling population as a whole. About the same level of trollishness as that earlier thread on how all lycra-clad roadies are a danger to themselves and others.
skye is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 08:11 PM
  #508  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by skye
I'm absolutely certain that your singular experience on one day during a short ride is absolutely and impeccably representative of the cycling population as a whole. About the same level of trollishness as that earlier thread on how all lycra-clad roadies are a danger to themselves and others.
Actually, I've seen it on virtually every ride, for the past 51 years, ever since I got on two wheels in 1961.

In my experience, it's become as dependable as the laws of physics:

Unsteady, timid cyclists need mirrors. The corollary: mirrors reinforce timid and unsteady riding habits.


PS: Fact.
SPlKE is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 08:26 PM
  #509  
Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad
 
Rx Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Front Range
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
it may be because I'm silent but I startle quite a few mirror users. what surprises me is the old "if you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you" adage truckers say, while I'm approaching a lot of mirror users I can't see them in their mirror, what are they looking at?
I'd say more than half do see me fairly early though.

Last edited by Rx Rider; 07-25-12 at 09:19 PM. Reason: oops
Rx Rider is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 08:54 PM
  #510  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,950

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times in 1,031 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE
The burning question:

Do mirrors cause people to be (or become) clueless, or is it that clueless people gravitate toward using mirrors?
Or the burning question might be - What makes you think other cyclists need to make eye contact with you while you pass them? Any good reason to think that they were unaware of your presence?

Are you a mind reader? How did you determine that all the "clueless" cyclists were "surprised" by your presence? What were your clues?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 09:17 PM
  #511  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Or the burning question might be - What makes you think other cyclists need to make eye contact with you while you pass them? Any good reason to think that they were unaware of your presence?

Are you a mind reader? How did you determine that all the "clueless" cyclists were "surprised" by your presence? What were your clues?
The ones who don't make eye contact -- most of whom are unable to make eye contact without crashing -- swerve around and generally jump out of their skin when being passed. Being able to make eye contact with someone behind you while still being able to hold your line at speed is cycling 101. If you can't do that, then I guess you really do need mirrors, the more the better.

When it comes to other cyclists, I am a mind reader, or so it might appear to the inexperienced observer.

"Cluelessness" and "surprise" are easy to discern, provided the observer himself is not a wobbly, timid dilettante who is having enough trouble not riding off into a ditch at any moment.
SPlKE is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 09:24 PM
  #512  
Other Worldly Member
 
Jseis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The old Northwest Coast.
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times in 53 Posts
The great thing about this debate is that Darwin settles it. To the aggressive take the lane types. Try that with a logging truck, stock truck, or Class RV on a blind curve and 6" pavement right of the fog line. Eyes forward and back means a slight cock of the head and I can track approaching vehicles frequently and determine if they see me (Super Flash and lime yellow) before I enter the curve and no amount of head swiveling will ever accomplish that. Better Fred than dead.
__________________
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
Jseis is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 09:46 PM
  #513  
Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad
 
Rx Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Front Range
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wonder sometimes if Darwin would be bothered that his theories on evolution would be hijacked by people who clearly have no idea what those theories entail and would instead be a reference for people that think it's do or die. natural selection has nothing to do with my way or the high-way.
Rx Rider is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 09:52 PM
  #514  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Rx Rider
I wonder sometimes if Darwin would be bothered that his theories on evolution would be hijacked by people who clearly have no idea what those theories entail and would instead be a reference for people that think it's do or die. natural selection has nothing to do with my way or the high-way.
It does, sort of, if "my way" allows me to mate with more females, and "the highway" causes you to not mate with any females.
SPlKE is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 10:03 PM
  #515  
Other Worldly Member
 
Jseis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The old Northwest Coast.
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times in 53 Posts
Spoken like an evolutionary biologist! Darwin would be pleased. The Darwin award goes to those least likely to procreate. That's about as simple an explanation there is for natural selection. Hijacking Darwin? What a crock. I don't really give a rip if a rider uses (or not) a unique tool...a mirror. If you have a mirror and don't use it effectively, it's as good as not being there.
__________________
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
Jseis is offline  
Old 07-25-12, 11:10 PM
  #516  
Banned
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: U.S. of A.
Posts: 7,466
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1268 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 67 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE
OK, I just got back from a 28 mile ride out to Audubon, PA and back home on the local MUP.

Every bike I passed... all bikes going in my direction... the people with mirrors seemed to be completely clueless, and seemed to be completely surprised when I passed, even if I used my bell and shouted that I was passing on the left. The people without mirrors typically made eye contact with me several times during the 100 yards when I was approaching them and overtaking them, and never broke their line.

The burning question:

Do mirrors cause people to be (or become) clueless, or is it that clueless people gravitate toward using mirrors?
Encountering riders on a MUP that usually have their guard down is one thing, encounter cyclists operating with a mirror on a busy thoroughfare, and you'll generally get a different reaction.
dynodonn is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 04:34 AM
  #517  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,950

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times in 1,031 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE
It does, sort of, if "my way" allows me to mate with more females, and "the highway" causes you to not mate with any females.
I can imagine you spend an excessive amount of time staring at your female attracting self in the mirror, Stud.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 04:39 AM
  #518  
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
some people just don't get it about the mirrors

If you ride the MUP, you don't need the highway (or mirrors)!
Bekologist is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 04:44 AM
  #519  
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE

Unsteady, timid cyclists need mirrors. The corollary: mirrors reinforce timid and unsteady riding habits.


PS: Fact.
Experienced, high mileage road cyclists find mirrors a useful tool.

The corollary: mirrors are the sign of experience and high mileage riding habits.

PS: Fact.

Mirrors reinforce timid riding habits- huh? like the man is blindfolded or something!

Spike, spike, spike - Mirrors reinforce a more assertive road position and riding habits, generally speaking.

Last edited by Bekologist; 07-26-12 at 04:56 AM.
Bekologist is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 05:38 AM
  #520  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by dynodonn
Encountering riders on a MUP that usually have their guard down is one thing, encounter cyclists operating with a mirror on a busy thoroughfare, and you'll generally get a different reaction.
I commuted 9 miles each way into downtown phily (roxborough/manayunk to 8th and Arch) for several years, year round. I observed the same thing.
SPlKE is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 05:41 AM
  #521  
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
...a great illustration of the Cat 6 ranking system.
Bekologist is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 05:53 AM
  #522  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
Perhaps we could end this thread on a conciliatory note. I'll go first.

There are two kinds of cyclists:

1. Timid, unsteady cyclists who are unable look behind them without putting themselves and others in grave danger, for whom mirrors are not only a godsend, but should be a legal requirement as well.

2. Skilled cyclists.
SPlKE is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 05:57 AM
  #523  
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,221

Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 1,236 Times in 617 Posts
Originally Posted by SPlKE
Perhaps we could end this thread on a conciliatory note. I'll go first.

There are two kinds of cyclists:

1. Timid, unsteady cyclists who are unable look behind them without putting themselves and others in grave danger, for whom mirrors are not only a godsend, but should be a legal requirement as well.

2. Skilled cyclists.
https://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...heels/1245.jpg

https://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...edChris005.jpg
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"

10 Wheels is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 06:03 AM
  #524  
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
someone's probably got something scathing to say about those safety triangles as well.....
Bekologist is offline  
Old 07-26-12, 06:04 AM
  #525  
Senior Member
 
SPlKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Bekologist
someone's probably got something scathing to say about those safety triangles as well.....
Did you ever trip and fall onto the pointy end of one? Deadly.
SPlKE is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.