Chris516

I was riding in my relative's car, on the way to a dental appointment yesterday. I saw a cyclist on pretty good road bike, riding on the shoulder(UGH). As we were about to pass the cyclist, I told my relative to give the cyclist, three feet to pass the cyclist in Maryland(law passed in late 2010). They wondered why. I was incensed at their callous ignorance.

So are any of your relatives', as oblivious as mine are?

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, as I've said before I've encountered motorists who think that we need to always stay in the bike lane because the city installs them. Some of them are obviously clueless to the risks that can be present in a bike lane. Or on the extreme right hand edge of the road.

Also sadly, some of these motorists also wear a badge.

TheHen

I would expect that almost all motorists are ignorant of almost all traffic laws and their responsibilities.

zonatandem

Most drivers/cops/public doesn't know/care about it!
Another law that makes a cyclist feel good but is not enforced.
In our town in Michigan there was a law on the books prohibiting bicyclist from riding on the road and another law prohibiting bicycling on the sidewalk!

Chris516

That is a given. But I was referring to relatives' specifically. Because of their knowledge of you riding a bike.

While I meant relatives' specifically and didn't refer to bike lanes, your reply indirectly, made me think of something. I did a 'road test' in the dark tonight, on the effectiveness of my new(early birthday present) headlight(NiteRider 600)https://www.niterider.com/rechargeabl...-cordless-new/. I had it on the low setting and was amazed as to how bright it is. I also did medium and high settings, that made it even brighter.

Anyway, on my way back, a car was behind me with a bunch of rowdies, on a two-lane blacktop. I didn't budge from 'taking the lane'. As they passed me, they yelled, "GET OFF THE F'N ROAD!!!". I ignored them. But the fact they got PO'ed, means they saw me.

That is a given. But I was getting at family knowing you are a cyclist, yet being oblivious to the bike laws in the traffic code.

Chris516

I guess they want you to ride on top of cars....lol

Digital_Cowboy

So, uh, just where were ya suppose to ride? And which law got repealed?

mulveyr 

If Maryland is anything like NY, there are simply way, way, WAY too many laws for any reasonable person to keep track of. I certainly wouldn't hold a lack of knowledge about any particular one against a person. "Callous ignorance" is more than a little of an overreaction.

That being said, common sense would dictate that you give a cyclist several feet of room. But as they say about common sense...

Ndw76

I'm used to seeing people doing stupid things on bicycles here. I'm used to seeing people who for all intents and porposes look like they are trying to commit suicide. It's just annoying when these idiots want to leave their blood and guts on my car.

mjsocal

I agree. This is what I would call ethical driving. If you don't know all the legalities, be ethical and humane, and you'll realize that you need a safe distance as well as speed.

To the OP, I'm assuming your relative knows how serious you are about cycling and advocacy, to the point you're shocked?

Sangesf

I'm guessing those two laws are in different areas and not the same area...
But I don't know of any states that say, you can't ride on the road..
Also, if it's a state law about riding in the road, a local municipality, (normally) can't make a law in conflict with a state law, UNLESS the state law, SPECIFICALLY, states that a local town IS allowed to make a more strict law...

Can you give us some more details?

Edit: I just looked up the state law, it only says, IF there is a bike lane, you must use it. (If you wanted to ride in the road, you'd have to use the bike lane, instead).

If there is no bike lane (or bike path adjacent to the road), you absolutely MAY use the road. (Michigan's state law, that I've seen, doesn't state a local ordinance can ban usage of the road.., again, only if there is no bike lane).

We have that law in Florida, if there is a bike lane, you must use it.. If one is not available, you can ride AFRAP.

contango 

I agree, when the volume of legislation goes past a certain amount and laws are constantly being revised, introduced, repealed etc with little publicity there does come a point when one has to ask how anyone can be expected to keep on top of it all.

That said it does seem like little more than basic good manners to give any other vehicle, however many wheels it has, a little space when passing it.

Bekologist

If the shoulder is safe for use and does not conflict with the riders' destination, etc.... why WOULDN'T a rider choose to ride there?


Safe ample shoulders are quite frequently a pleasure to ride on. I'd bet the rider was doing just fine.

genec

Yes, and so are most drivers. My dad thought that the the only reason cyclists were able to use the roads is because drivers let them... that it was a courtesy to not hit cyclists. He was amazed that I could cycle tour halfway across the US.

For a couple of years I had CA laws of cyclists rights to the road posted outside my cube at work. Co-workers came by and expressed amazement at the fact that cyclists had such rights... they had no idea of the laws for cyclists on the road. I have regularly chatted folks up in situations where I am not known as a cyclist to see if they know the laws... public situations... such as waiting in lines or art shows, or public events... and I generally find that there is a lot of ignorance about cyclists rights to the road.

Not everyone however is unaware... the younger folks seem to have some notion that cyclists are legal users of the road... older folks... say 40 years old and older, tend to not be aware of such laws.

genec

Drivers however should have general knowledge about the laws... they should know that cyclists have the right to the road.

Bekologist

Cyclists should know the laws as well.....and learn how to choose a safe road and highway position relative to conditions, traffic, etc.....

I be the rider was doing just fine.

genec

Agreed... and I hate to admit it, but it appears that quite a few cyclists do not know the laws either.

TheHen

Although there is more to the law than the statutes, what fraction of motorists have ever bothered to read their state's vehicle code? It's not like it's a huge burden to take a few hours and read how to legally operate a deadly, multi-ton machine around human bodies. As others have said time and again on this forum, we desperately need to require potential motorists to pass, with a much higher than 70% correct-answer rate, a real knowledge test both to obtain and to retain a driver's license. Or, we can continue to accept the death and injury rate that is the result of allowing unqualified people to drive.

hotbike

Some motorists don't understand hand signals, so wtf do you do?
I for one carry a red flag in my handlebar basket. (A Coroplast tm

corrugated plastic handlebar basket).

I have 18 inch reflective triangles, or Slow Moving Vehicle signs on my bikes.


Here's a picture of the red flag, two road cones , and a reflective vest.


Here's a Flash Photo of the SMV Sign.


Here's a picture of a bike with a 12 volt rechargable lighting system. I converted to LED's recently, but the low amperage drain causes an unexpected problem: there is not enough current (due to the efficiency of the LED's) to trigger the Flasher. Hopefully, this problem will be resolved and I will go back to having blinking directional lights.
Also , this bike has amber Marker Lights.

I also have a rear view mirror. I follow the rules of Defensive Driving, in that I do not "take the lane" unless there are no cars behind me. I would rather stop and wait for a break in traffic. I also pull over if there is a Truck or a Bus behind me. Pickup Trucks need closer examination, they might have "Dualies" -Dual Rear Wheels, in which case they are as wide as a full size Truck. Watch out for Horse Trailers, they are wider than the Pickup Truck hauling them.

Lately the papers are printing lots of letters from irate motorists, who claim Cyclists are blocking the entire road. Unless the motorist can produce a video, I take their claims with a grain of salt.

I think the red flag is one of the best methods for obtaining
three feet of clearance, I hold the flag out to my left, and for some reason they all seem to be able to clear the end of the stick.

I have a question and I want some feed-back: What is the percieved difference between "Vehicular Cycling" and a "Human Powered Vehicle" ?
I would argue that the Human Powered Vehicle Looks more like a Vehicle, while Vehicular Cycling is just a psychological theory(or a legal theory).
I think the VC'ers should "put their money where their mouth is".

Justa note, I no longer race, but as the senior member of the bicycle club, I Patrol the Bike Routes. Sometimes I patrol witha digital camera, sometimes I patrol with Lopping Shears. You know, if I lop the low hanging tree branches, I can make ten feet more room on the now usable shoulder?

Show me some pictures, this thread needs more pictures.

dynodonn 

Locally, it seems to be the 60 and up motorists that seem to be the most ignorant of cycling laws, with the 40 to 60 crowd knowing about FRAP, BL requirements (not the exceptions), and little else.

genec

How about if they simply read all the Driver's handbook. That would be a start. Here in CA, cyclists are at least mentioned... although only on one page, and the sum total of the mention of bicycles is this:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm#bike


While it isn't much, at least it says "Have the same rights and responsibilities as vehicle and motorcycle drivers..."

I also like this part... "Must make left and right turns in the same way drivers do, using the same turn lanes."

But frankly, the rest is rather limited.

gmt13

In NC, whenever they enact a new traffic rule, they generally do it with some fanfare: PSA's, printed and tv news, etc. When they enacted the bill in Md, did they do this? In other words, did you feel comfortable that the word actually got out?

On the other hand, even when they enact and announce, some folks still never seem to know about it. NC has required, for at least five years, that drivers have their lights on when your wipers are active, yet a third of the drivers don't seem to know about it (or care).

About the passing laws - it seems to me that drivers who care will give you the distance regardless of a law. The ones that don't care, won't give you the distance even with a law. So is this just another feel good, for show sort of law?

-G

genec

If you consider that most of the bike laws went into state vehicle codes maybe in the late '60s / early '70s then this somewhat jives with the likelihood that when these older folks learned to drive, there were no bike laws on record.

And I recall that about 15 years ago even in CA, there was no mention of cyclists in the driver's handbook. Now I understand that there may even be a question or two on the test... depending on which test you happen to get.

contango 

Of course they should, and even in the absence of a three-foot law it's basic courtesy not to pass within inches of a cyclist's handlebars. Without knowing just how close the car described in the OP actually passed it's hard to know if they were giving the cyclist space even if less than a legally mandated 36 inches or passing so close they could give their paintwork a quick polish thanks to the cyclist's bar tape.

teachme

The problem is an educational one... Your relative was ignorant about the law. Ignorance is not shameful; it just means the ignorant have not been exposed to the light; so to speak. And the scary part is Driver Licensing is getting more lacadazicle in qualifying people to drive. On-line driver's ed, parent taught drivers ed, Its just damn easy for some idiot to get a drivers license!!!!