dynodonn 

Video taping close passes, aggressive driving hasn't been a waste of time for me, it has given me the info need to report/document problem motorists to local law enforcement, rather than just my stewing about the incident.

Again, due to our area's disproportionately high motor vehicle/bicyclist/ped collision rate, our local law enforcement takes aggressive/dangerous driving reports very seriously, especially when a considerable amount of their annual funding is tied to how well they are able to reduce the local collision rate.

dougmc

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm just telling you what the difference is, not explaining why or arguing that the system is "correct".

Parking tickets are generally given by meter maids -- they're not sworn police officers. They don't have the authority to give moving violation tickets, but they can give civil parking tickets. The fine is assessed to the registered owner of the vehicle rather than the person who actually parked it. Red light cameras work more like meter maids than police officers. The rules are radically different.

The cynical but probably correct answer is that there might be money to be made in red light cameras. Not so much in sending out bills to those who are caught driving poorly by random citizens with their video cameras.

Also note that the police department rarely has anything whatsoever to do with the red light cameras beyond being caught an awful lot running said red lights.

Digital_Cowboy

So says the great, wise and all knowing Bek.

Bekologist

thank you. if you're trying to be insulting, you need to take it down a notch, and take a look at the forum guidelines.

I do understand some basics about legal process.

a lot of the things considered 'reckless driving' by bicyclists won't get even a whit of attention down at the station.

the action has to be quite egregious for a DA to consider charges.

one of the posters reports frequent reports filed with the police.

I wonder how much success dynodonn has actually had from the frequent dispatches of close passes to the local police.

noisebeam

What do you want them to do?
Acknowledge that an unknown driver of a red vehicle with unknown plates was in incorrect lane (for unknown, but potentially legitimate reasons) and moved back over to their lane in time to avoid you?

dynodonn 

As for my garnering success in getting any tickets issued to the motorists that I reported, that would be none. As for my getting the same motorists documented, that would be 100 percent, but that's all I wanted to do in the first place.

dynodonn 

Actually, degnaw was able to get the license number with a very good head turn of the camera, the license number is the YouTube title.

lineinthewater

I will likely stop by the Police Dept. one of these days, and straight out ask them what type of incidents, and what type of proof, may warrant their attention. They have a fair amount of resources, and the town has made recent efforts to reduce pedestrian (and cycling) incidents.

I simply want to know, for the future, what situations they will take seriously - what is the threshold. And, as many have discussed, I'm sure the threshold is dramatically different based on your region, biases, and resources.

CB HI

Traffic infractions in CA and CO are criminal offenses. That includes red light camera infractions in CA. For those, the drivers face must be identifiable in the picture or the ticket gets tossed. Unless of course the heavy handed camera cop gets the owner of the car to rat out who was driving at the time.

dougmc

Texas too, and probably quite a few other states. (Some states have a level of offense called an "infraction" that's not quite criminal.)

... now, that doesn't include Texas.

Yes, that appears to be the case in California, Colorado and Arizona.

However, "In most jurisdictions the liability for red light violations is a civil offense, rather than a criminal citation, issued upon the vehicle owner—similar to a parking ticket".

Same source as above, "In many California police departments, when a positive identification cannot be made the registered owner of the vehicle will be mailed a notice of traffic violation instead of a real ticket. Also known as "snitch tickets," these notices are used to request identifying information about the driver of the vehicle during the alleged violation. Because these notices have not been filed at court, they carry no legal weight and the registered owner is under no obligation to respond."

Of course, it wouldn't be the first time that a police officer had told somebody that they had to do something when they really did not.

Not that any of this has any bearing on submitting a reckless driving video to the police ...

Richard Cranium

Yeah - and as usual my comments about whether a "driver" is identified in any submitted video is ignored..... just like complaints from cyclists.... hmmm ...

degnaw

Obviously they're not, the best case scenario is a low quality shot of their face.

lineinthewater

This is not entirely accurate. There have been a number of times where I've caught up to reckless drivers (i.e. traffic light) and would be able to get a clear shot of their face. I can think of many other examples too, such as people who have intentionally pulled out right in front of me (with their eyes locked on me) and forced me to skid out to a stop. Or how about the officer who right hooked me? Or is he going to say someone else was driving his car too? Or the duo that tried to intentionally push me off the road going 25mph - I'm pretty sure I would have got clear video of the pusher's face considering it was about a foot from my left shoulder!

invisiblehand

Vigilantism is largely inappropriate here. Typically a vigilante is someone who tries to punish people outside of the law but it appears to be that cyclists -- or whoever -- are riding with cameras to work with the law.

Documentation is important, IMO. And this applies to more than people inside cars.

Locally, people have used video as a tool to report issues with streets, facilities, and so on. Overall, it can be a useful tool and sometimes contribute to a powerful argument.

It would be nice to get a response or at least someone just flat out telling you that this is waaaaaaaaaaay down the priority list since there are no possible charges.

dynodonn 

I had a similar incident some time back, no spitting though, just my panniers got ransacked with the woman motorist looking for my personal ID, and the article you posted is why I did not physically try to stop her, plus I knew my ID was not in the panniers anyway.

mtbikerinpa

At this point I just have a forward facing handlebar mount unit, but the lack of PA forward plates somewhat negates using a rear for ID of plates. I have been making a score list since I commute the same stretch of road for considerable amounts of days and times. So far the cops have been partnering along the points I requested although it took a couple weeks to get their schedule rolled around. Now they wave and smile when I roll past the speed traps. Even if the extent of the police action was speeding tickets and an occasional personal greeting of the offender with a question it would still send a message. Tort and charges would be perhaps vengeful even if it would be justified to law. At least 2/3 of the near miss-ers that I have been able to talk to have not repeat offended. Even my little vivitar DVR 480 is mostly effective at scoring license plates. I wouldn't spend much more than $20 on a camera for it, but it works and its a good help for the memory.

Bekologist

the police are running speed traps as a result of your video evidence, and you've spoken to at least 3 close passers that no longer close pass bicyclists?

I'm amazed police are watching bicyclists' videos of close passes, and doing something about it.

mtbikerinpa

The police so far have not needed to see the video witness to accept citizen complaint/input. The local departments of the zones I go through have been fairly cooperative with constructive notes(like worst zones and times of day). They have told me prior to such input the success of trapping had been hit and miss at best. That to me sounds like a step in the positive.

Bekologist

Vigilantism is the wrong word, but my impression:

some, perhaps many riders that choose to outfit their bikes to record motorists traffic transgressions have an inflated sense of their ability to orchestrate improved compliance to traffic law and safe passing standards by motorists.

Those beliefs are picayune.

Camera evidence may be invaluable in providing a record of the event when a serious road rage incident erupts.

I see an undercurrent of overzealous frustrated do-goodism over immutable elements while riding in traffic like close passers.

There's going to have to be a sea change in the judicial process before police departments start watching citizen videos of other road users, and begin chasing after motorists passing closer than 4 feet when there HASN'T been a collision.

Recording every commute and picking out bad driving, then 'informing' the authorities smacks of quixotic visions of being a self-appointed legal observer.

Like people driving around calling 911 everytime someone passes them in the fast lane going over the legal limit, or calling 911 to report every dog walker with their dog off their leashes.

Its a nice fantasy, but there's far better things to be doing after your rides than reviewing every purported close pass to then report to the authorities.

lineinthewater

You are trying to paint everyone with the same broad brush, as if this is some sort of thread on crime-watch cyclists. I clearly spelled out that I simply want to know what level of reckless driving (videoed) would be required to get the police to act. Does there need to be contact? What would need to be in the video (plate, ID, etc)? Has anyone been successful with submitting a video of such an incident? (so far, it appears the answer is "No") BTW, I would never expect an officer to even consider pursuing a close passer, except in the most egregious situations (contact) or where they witnessed it.

dynodonn 

Personally, I haven't yet submitted a video to local law enforcement or even mentioned to them that I had one available to submit. In the event of a collision with a hit and run or if the incident devolves into a "I said, they said", then submitting a video on my part would be in order.

Just yesterday, I recorded our local fire chief pulling out in front of me in a fire department vehicle, he realized his judgement error, and I was able to make an evasive maneuver to avoid hitting him.

After my experiences of extremely close passes, this incident wasn't in the ball park in comparison, with my pedaling on and the video clip will end up getting an honorable mention for chronological purposes and that is be as far as I will take it.

Shimagnolo

NHTSA List of Aggressive Driving Programs by state: https://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/e...sive_index.htm

no motor?

After reading the replies, it sounds like there has been one successful response to evidence supplied to the cops, with the rest of the evidence being ignored. I wouldn't expect the cops to do anything about evidence like this until it's profitable for them to do so, as in their ability to confiscate property in the failed war on drugs. Until then, I think my best approach would be to find some way to make drivers think their actions are being recorded like at an intersection with a red light camera.

Deathly Hallows

Where I live, any person can report a dangerous driver to the police provided they have some way to identify the vehicle (i.e., license plates) and charges will be filed. The case then goes to court and the complainant would have to testify which becomes a case of one person's word against another's. I am unaware of any legislation regarding the admissability of video evidence provided by the complainant; however, video evidence presented by the Crown (the state) such as red light cameras are often successfully challenged by the defendent.

dynodonn 

Never underestimate the tenacity of a motorist to find a way to circumvent your recording efforts if they are forewarned. Stealth is my preferred method, and to keep the situation as candid as possible.