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Old 04-10-12, 05:33 PM   #76
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My condolences to the victim's family. I'm sure that the facts will come out during the trial, but the fact that the cyclist feels the need to blog about his actions may not have been his smartest move. I recently collided with a pedestrian as well, except in my case, he was crossing in the middle of the street and emerged from between two parked cars, about 5 feet in front of me. We both went down hard, but he was pretty solidly built and quite a bit younger than 71. Its been about a month since the accident, and I just started riding again this week. It definitely has made me a more cautious rider . . .
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Old 04-10-12, 05:53 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
The article in the very first post of this thread has some of the rider's post on that message board before it got pulled down. It was probably posted before he knew that somebody had died. It's pretty obvious to me he laid it down intentionally. From a legal standpoint it was pretty foolish of him to post about it on a public board since that will almost certainly be used against him in court.

"I was already way too committed to stop," the post states. "The light turned red as I was cruising through the middle of the intersection and then, almost instantly, the southern crosswalk on Market and Castro filled up with people coming from both directions. ... I couldn't see a line through the crowd and I couldn't stop, so I laid it down and just plowed through the crowded crosswalk in the least-populated place I could find."
According to THIS POST, here is the complete text of the March 29 post (since deleted), allegedly written by Chris Bucchere, the cyclist:

Wrecked

Dear Missionistas / Raiders of the Morning, Famiglia and Amigos,

I wrecked on the way home today from the bi-weekly Headlands Raid today. Short story: I’m fine. The pedestrian I clobbered? Not so much.

Around 8 a.m. I was descending Divisadero Street southbound and about to cross Market Street. The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop. The light turned red as I was cruising through the middle of the intersection and then, almost instantly, the southern crosswalk on Market and Castro filled up with people coming from both directions. The intersection very long and the width of Castro Street at that point is very short, so, in a nutshell, blammo.

The quote/unquote ‘scene of the crime’ was that intersection right by the landmark Castro Theatre – it leads from a really busy MUNI station to that little plaza where The Naked Guy always hangs out. It was commuter hour and it was crowded as all getup. I couldn’t see a line through the crowd and I couldn’t stop, so I laid it down and just plowed through the crowded crosswalk in the least-populated place I could find.

I don’t remember the next five minutes but when I came to, I was in a neck brace being loaded into an ambulance. I remember seeing a RIVER of blood on the asphalt, but it wasn’t mine. Apparently I hit a 71-year-old male pedestrian and he ended up in the ICU with pretty serious head injuries. I really hope he ends up OK.

They asked me a bunch of stupid easy questions that I couldn’t answer, so they kept me for a few hours for observation, gave me a tetanus shot and sent me on my way.

Anyway, other than a stiff neck, a sore jaw/TMJ, a few bruises and some raspberries, I’m totally fine. I got discharged from the hospital durning the lunch hour. The guy I hit was not as fortunate. I really hope he makes it.

The cops took my bike. Hopefully they’ll give it back.

In closing, I want to dedicate this story to my late helmet. She died in heroic fashion today as my head slammed into the tarmac. Like the Secret Service would do for a president, she took some serious pavement today, cracking through-and-through in five places and getting completely mauled by the ragged asphalt. May she die knowing that because she committed the ultimate sacrifice, her rider can live on and ride on. Can I get an amen?

Amen.

The moral of this little story is: WYFH

Hoping you’ll all keep the rubber side down,

Chris
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Old 04-10-12, 07:02 PM   #78
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That post is cringe inducing. I couldn't finish it.

Thanks for posting the maps/images, Scooper. You can see why he might have misjudged it-- that's a long intersection to push a yellow on, and a tempting place to keep one's momentum going. Sad.
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Old 04-10-12, 07:56 PM   #79
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People have interpreted his post as being callous, but maybe he was simply using humor in dealing with a clearly traumatic personal event. People that work in the emergency services / medical field say all sorts of things amongst each other that an outsider would consider disgustingly inconsiderate.
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Old 04-10-12, 08:32 PM   #80
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No matter how cringe-inducing the post is, and despite the fact that the cyclist showed extremely poor judgement the following remains:

1. If he entered on the yellow light then he was legally traversing the intersection.
2. At his high speed, he should have been able to clear the intersection before the pedestrians got a walk sign.

3. IF points #1 and #2 are true, THEN it follows that the pedestrians did not yet have a walk sign. (As an aside, I see this happen all the time so it sounds plausible to me).

4. Ultimately, being a good cyclist or driver means anticipating the mistakes of others. What this cyclist did was stupid beyond belief. However, if the pedestrians were truly not supposed to be in the intersection yet, then he is stupid and reckless, but not criminal. Pedestrians also have the responsibility to look for oncoming traffic -- especially traffic clearing a long intersection.


Maybe he was speeding. Maybe he ran the red. We really don't know yet, and as much as I am uncomfortable with the cyclist's actions, it may very well have been the pedestrians who blatantly flouted their signals without looking. It could be that both sides were legally in the wrong. IF points 1-4 hold, then the cyclist should be given a break (a reprimand about safe cycling practices for the future would be in order). Either way, I think the role of the pedestrians and their shared responsibility should not be ignored. This incident has (rightly so) elicited many angry feelings toward cyclists in general, but nothing productive has come of it in terms of greater pedestrian awareness of cyclists and the need to watch out for both motor and man-powered vehicles before stepping out on the street.

I'm sure many will disagree with me and I'd like to hear those opinions. I just I want to reiterate that I in no way condone the cyclist's behavior, I just want to look at the situation from all perspectives.
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Old 04-10-12, 08:58 PM   #81
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Today, I stood on the northwest corner of the intersection with a stopwatch. From the time the light turned red for Castro traffic until pedestrians stepped off the curb into the pedestrian crosswalk crossing Castro on the south side of the intersection, exactly seven seconds elapsed. I timed it three times, and it was always seven seconds from the cyclist's red light until pedestrians started crossing.

Unless the city has changed the timing since the accident (and that's entirely possible), there's just no way the light wasn't red before the cyclist entered the intersection.
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Old 04-10-12, 09:11 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Today, I stood on the northwest corner of the intersection with a stopwatch. From the time the light turned red for Castro traffic until pedestrians stepped off the curb into the pedestrian crosswalk crossing Castro on the south side of the intersection, exactly seven seconds elapsed. I timed it three times, and it was always seven seconds from the cyclist's red light until pedestrians started crossing.

Unless the city has changed the timing since the accident (and that's entirely possible), there's just no way the light wasn't red before the cyclist entered the intersection.
Just because pedestrians waited 7s (probably for the walk signal) when you timed it doesn't mean they didn't jump the gun on the day in question. I imagine it depends on the time of day and number of people. What I've also seen happen is a mob mentality: if a few people decide to enter the intersection early the crowd will follow.

I think what your timing proves is that IF the cyclist didn't run the red, he had more than enough time to traverse the intersection before pedestrians had their walk signal. Whether pedestrians actually waited for their signal on the particular day and time in question is not established.
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Old 04-10-12, 10:46 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by spunkyj View Post
No matter how cringe-inducing the post is, and despite the fact that the cyclist showed extremely poor judgement the following remains:

1. If he entered on the yellow light then he was legally traversing the intersection.
2. At his high speed, he should have been able to clear the intersection before the pedestrians got a walk sign.

3. IF points #1 and #2 are true, THEN it follows that the pedestrians did not yet have a walk sign. (As an aside, I see this happen all the time so it sounds plausible to me).

4. Ultimately, being a good cyclist or driver means anticipating the mistakes of others. What this cyclist did was stupid beyond belief. However, if the pedestrians were truly not supposed to be in the intersection yet, then he is stupid and reckless, but not criminal. Pedestrians also have the responsibility to look for oncoming traffic -- especially traffic clearing a long intersection.


Maybe he was speeding. Maybe he ran the red. We really don't know yet, and as much as I am uncomfortable with the cyclist's actions, it may very well have been the pedestrians who blatantly flouted their signals without looking. It could be that both sides were legally in the wrong. IF points 1-4 hold, then the cyclist should be given a break (a reprimand about safe cycling practices for the future would be in order). Either way, I think the role of the pedestrians and their shared responsibility should not be ignored. This incident has (rightly so) elicited many angry feelings toward cyclists in general, but nothing productive has come of it in terms of greater pedestrian awareness of cyclists and the need to watch out for both motor and man-powered vehicles before stepping out on the street.

I'm sure many will disagree with me and I'd like to hear those opinions. I just I want to reiterate that I in no way condone the cyclist's behavior, I just want to look at the situation from all perspectives.
I agree with all you said. In my experience, this is the kind of mistake many cyclists make when they are fatigued at the end of a training ride. Sometimes one just has to recognize that being tired can make anyone stupid and we all need to remember to make an effort to over-compensate.
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Old 04-10-12, 11:04 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
According to THIS POST, here is the complete text of the March 29 post (since deleted), allegedly written by Chris Bucchere, the cyclist:

Wrecked

Dear Missionistas / Raiders of the Morning, Famiglia and Amigos,

I wrecked on the way home today from the bi-weekly Headlands Raid today. Short story: I’m fine. The pedestrian I clobbered? Not so much.

Around 8 a.m. I was descending Divisadero Street southbound and about to cross Market Street. The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop. The light turned red as I was cruising through the middle of the intersection and then, almost instantly, the southern crosswalk on Market and Castro filled up with people coming from both directions. The intersection very long and the width of Castro Street at that point is very short, so, in a nutshell, blammo.

The quote/unquote ‘scene of the crime’ was that intersection right by the landmark Castro Theatre – it leads from a really busy MUNI station to that little plaza where The Naked Guy always hangs out. It was commuter hour and it was crowded as all getup. I couldn’t see a line through the crowd and I couldn’t stop, so I laid it down and just plowed through the crowded crosswalk in the least-populated place I could find.

I don’t remember the next five minutes but when I came to, I was in a neck brace being loaded into an ambulance. I remember seeing a RIVER of blood on the asphalt, but it wasn’t mine. Apparently I hit a 71-year-old male pedestrian and he ended up in the ICU with pretty serious head injuries. I really hope he ends up OK.

They asked me a bunch of stupid easy questions that I couldn’t answer, so they kept me for a few hours for observation, gave me a tetanus shot and sent me on my way.

Anyway, other than a stiff neck, a sore jaw/TMJ, a few bruises and some raspberries, I’m totally fine. I got discharged from the hospital durning the lunch hour. The guy I hit was not as fortunate. I really hope he makes it.

The cops took my bike. Hopefully they’ll give it back.

In closing, I want to dedicate this story to my late helmet. She died in heroic fashion today as my head slammed into the tarmac. Like the Secret Service would do for a president, she took some serious pavement today, cracking through-and-through in five places and getting completely mauled by the ragged asphalt. May she die knowing that because she committed the ultimate sacrifice, her rider can live on and ride on. Can I get an amen?

Amen.

The moral of this little story is: WYFH

Hoping you’ll all keep the rubber side down,

Chris
One thing I'd like to know (as others have asked) why did he "lay it down?" Wouldn't he have had more control of his bike by staying upright? Wouldn't he have been better able to avoid hitting any of the pedestrians by staying upright? Also WHY didn't he attempt to break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkyj View Post
No matter how cringe-inducing the post is, and despite the fact that the cyclist showed extremely poor judgement the following remains:

1. If he entered on the yellow light then he was legally traversing the intersection.
2. At his high speed, he should have been able to clear the intersection before the pedestrians got a walk sign.

3. IF points #1 and #2 are true, THEN it follows that the pedestrians did not yet have a walk sign. (As an aside, I see this happen all the time so it sounds plausible to me).

4. Ultimately, being a good cyclist or driver means anticipating the mistakes of others. What this cyclist did was stupid beyond belief. However, if the pedestrians were truly not supposed to be in the intersection yet, then he is stupid and reckless, but not criminal. Pedestrians also have the responsibility to look for oncoming traffic -- especially traffic clearing a long intersection.


Maybe he was speeding. Maybe he ran the red. We really don't know yet, and as much as I am uncomfortable with the cyclist's actions, it may very well have been the pedestrians who blatantly flouted their signals without looking. It could be that both sides were legally in the wrong. IF points 1-4 hold, then the cyclist should be given a break (a reprimand about safe cycling practices for the future would be in order). Either way, I think the role of the pedestrians and their shared responsibility should not be ignored. This incident has (rightly so) elicited many angry feelings toward cyclists in general, but nothing productive has come of it in terms of greater pedestrian awareness of cyclists and the need to watch out for both motor and man-powered vehicles before stepping out on the street.

I'm sure many will disagree with me and I'd like to hear those opinions. I just I want to reiterate that I in no way condone the cyclist's behavior, I just want to look at the situation from all perspectives.

I agree with you, EVERYONE who uses the road(s) has a responsibility to do so safely. If the light, be it the crosswalk light, the traffic light is red then stop.

IF the pedestrians jumped the gun then there should be blame enough to go all the way around. Several years ago as I was going down to the library I had to stop for a public bus that had stopped to discharge passengers. A gal got off of the bus and with her cell phone glued firmly to her ear starts to cross the street WITHOUT looking.

Had I not been looking/watching I would have hit her. Fortunately as I was paying attention to my surroundings I was able to swerve between her and the curb and avoid hitting her. Sadly, however I'm sure that had we collided she'd have blamed me.
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Old 04-10-12, 11:06 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Today, I stood on the northwest corner of the intersection with a stopwatch. From the time the light turned red for Castro traffic until pedestrians stepped off the curb into the pedestrian crosswalk crossing Castro on the south side of the intersection, exactly seven seconds elapsed. I timed it three times, and it was always seven seconds from the cyclist's red light until pedestrians started crossing.

Unless the city has changed the timing since the accident (and that's entirely possible), there's just no way the light wasn't red before the cyclist entered the intersection.
Given that the cyclist said that it was yellow when he entered the intersection did you time that as well? On that a good question is when on the yellow did he enter the intersection?
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Old 04-10-12, 11:07 PM   #86
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"The moral of this little story is: WYFH . . ."
no, the moral of the story is be aware of your surroundings.
as long as I'm hijacking threads, why is there a naked guy landmark?
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Old 04-10-12, 11:13 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by spunkyj View Post
Just because pedestrians waited 7s (probably for the walk signal) when you timed it doesn't mean they didn't jump the gun on the day in question. I imagine it depends on the time of day and number of people. What I've also seen happen is a mob mentality: if a few people decide to enter the intersection early the crowd will follow.

I think what your timing proves is that IF the cyclist didn't run the red, he had more than enough time to traverse the intersection before pedestrians had their walk signal. Whether pedestrians actually waited for their signal on the particular day and time in question is not established.
Agreed, when I'm riding around the downtown and other areas I've seen way too many pedestrians crossing against the light. I'm surprised that there aren't more motor vehicle vs. pedestrian crashes/fatalities. And sadly not all of them will be the fault of the motorist(s) who hit the pedestrian(s). In at least some of the cases it would be the pedestrian's fault who jumped the walk light.
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Old 04-10-12, 11:23 PM   #88
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"The moral of this little story is: WYFH . . ."
no, the moral of the story is be aware of your surroundings.
as long as I'm hijacking threads, why is there a naked guy landmark?
"It is not illegal to be naked in public in San Francisco, except in a state of arousal."

On sunny days, there are typically a half dozen nude men hanging out at Jane Warner Plaza near the intersection.

http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2...up-for-debate/
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Old 04-11-12, 12:20 AM   #89
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This doesn't look good.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BA8B1O1H44.DTL

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Francisco Chronicle
Video of fatal S.F. crash may contradict bicyclist

Phillip Matier,Andrew Ross, Chronicle Columnist
April 10, 2012

Video surveillance footage taken when a bicyclist ran into a 71-year-old pedestrian crossing San Francisco's Castro Street, killing the man, is raising questions about the biker's account of the crash.

The video shows Sutchi Hui of San Bruno and his wife stepping into the intersection at Castro and Market streets just as Chris Bucchere rides in from the north side, said a law enforcement source who has viewed the footage.

"The biker is going fast and looks like he is hunched down. He hits the victim dead-on. There is never a moment where he looks like he is trying to slow down," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity because police are still investigating the March 29 crash.
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Old 04-11-12, 01:00 AM   #90
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It does look the cyclist messed this one up bad. Too bad the City Council and news does not get as jacked up when a motorist kills a pedestrian or cyclist.
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Old 04-11-12, 07:21 AM   #91
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I'll sum up some of the posts I've read. Cyclists are to motorists as pedestrians are to cyclists.
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Old 04-11-12, 10:23 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
"It is not illegal to be naked in public in San Francisco, except in a state of arousal."

On sunny days, there are typically a half dozen nude men hanging out at Jane Warner Plaza near the intersection.

http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2...up-for-debate/
Not good for the cyclist. At minimum that would make him a liar and ruin any further credibility. It still doesn't establish whether he was rightfully in the intersection, though. His entering the intersection and the victim stepping out could have still corresponded to the light changing red.

But man, I dislike this guy more and more with every new piece of information...
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Old 04-11-12, 11:00 AM   #93
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Not good for the cyclist. At minimum that would make him a liar and ruin any further credibility. It still doesn't establish whether he was rightfully in the intersection, though. His entering the intersection and the victim stepping out could have still corresponded to the light changing red.

But man, I dislike this guy more and more with every new piece of information...
This is true.

The San Francisco Bicycle Coalition has a "Rules of the Road" section where they interpret California Vehicle Code Section 21954(b) as meaning "Pedestrians Always Have the Right of Way. In the crosswalk or not, bike riders and drivers are required to yield to pedestrians. (CVC 21954 (b)).

Here is the text of CVC 21954:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVC 21954
Pedestrians Outside Crosswalks
21954. (a) Every pedestrian upon a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway so near as to constitute an immediate hazard.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not relieve the driver of a vehicle from the duty to exercise due care for the safety of any pedestrian upon a roadway.

Amended Ch. 1015, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972.
In this case, when the couple stepped off of the curb at the crosswalk on the south side of the intersection and the cyclist was entering the north side of the intersection approximately 100 feet away at the same time, the pedestrians had no reason to believe the cyclist was "so near as to constitute an immediate hazard".

In any case, the pedestrians were in a "marked crosswalk".

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Last edited by Scooper; 04-11-12 at 11:36 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-11-12, 11:30 AM   #94
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horrible. Sounds like he was in a tuck. If I understand the geography, there is no benefit to keeping your speed up in that location.
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Old 04-11-12, 01:26 PM   #95
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another report in addition to repeating what was noted about the video, suggests the cyclist was racing against the clock, but is was not clear where that idea came from.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...e-been-racing/
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Old 04-11-12, 02:28 PM   #96
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is there any information on what type of bike the guy was riding. I am inferring from comments like "way too committed to stop" and "laid it down" that the bike was most likely a fixie and probably without brakes. If the bike did not have brakes, that could be another legal point against the cyclist.
Almost certainly not a fixie. You have to experience San Francisco to really appreciate how steep the hills are. In many places the sidewalks are stairs. Gearing that you could spin with at 35 mph would not be able to climb even a mild SF hill. You would end up pushing the bike probably 1/4 to 1/3 of every ride. I am sure there are probably some hard-core types that un-braked fixies in SF, but they are surely a rare breed.
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Old 04-11-12, 03:03 PM   #97
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Almost certainly not a fixie. You have to experience San Francisco to really appreciate how steep the hills are. In many places the sidewalks are stairs. Gearing that you could spin with at 35 mph would not be able to climb even a mild SF hill. You would end up pushing the bike probably 1/4 to 1/3 of every ride. I am sure there are probably some hard-core types that un-braked fixies in SF, but they are surely a rare breed.
I have been to SF a fair amount (live close in San Jose) and know the hills. But by all reports you can't swing a messenger bag if SF without hitting a fixie rider. Scooper, as a resident, undoubtedly has a more informed observation

Scoopers best guess was this was not a fixie based on the ride the cyclist was doing (posted after my post)
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Old 04-11-12, 06:23 PM   #98
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I'd like to see the video. It is entirely possible that the "hunched over" posture was due to the cyclist using the drops to increase his leverage on the brake levers.

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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
...In this case, when the couple stepped off of the curb at the crosswalk on the south side of the intersection and the cyclist was entering the north side of the intersection approximately 100 feet away at the same time, the pedestrians had no reason to believe the cyclist was "so near as to constitute an immediate hazard".

In any case, the pedestrians were in a "marked crosswalk".

If the cyclist entered the intersection prior to his light turning red (that may be a BIG if), does he not have the right-of-way to pass through the intersection? It is possible that the pedestrians were the ones at fault here.

It is amazing how much press has been generated by this horrific crash. I wonder if there will ever be such coverage of the all-too-common crashes involving motorists killing pedestrians and cyclists.
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Old 04-11-12, 07:12 PM   #99
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This is true.

The San Francisco Bicycle Coalition has a "Rules of the Road" section where they interpret California Vehicle Code Section 21954(b) as meaning "Pedestrians Always Have the Right of Way. In the crosswalk or not, bike riders and drivers are required to yield to pedestrians. (CVC 21954 (b)).

Here is the text of CVC 21954:



In this case, when the couple stepped off of the curb at the crosswalk on the south side of the intersection and the cyclist was entering the north side of the intersection approximately 100 feet away at the same time, the pedestrians had no reason to believe the cyclist was "so near as to constitute an immediate hazard".

In any case, the pedestrians were in a "marked crosswalk".
I'm not sure I agree with the cyclist not being an "immediate hazard"--I think the collision proves otherwise. But I do accept the point about pedestrians essentially always having the "right of way". I guess as cyclists all we can ask is that the law is applied consistently (as it would be for motor vehicles) and fair treatment applied.
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Old 04-11-12, 07:41 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by spunkyj View Post
I'm not sure I agree with the cyclist not being an "immediate hazard"--I think the collision proves otherwise. But I do accept the point about pedestrians essentially always having the "right of way". I guess as cyclists all we can ask is that the law is applied consistently (as it would be for motor vehicles) and fair treatment applied.
I've got to disagree.

If the description of the video is correct, and the cyclist and pedestrians entered the intersection at the same time, the pedestrians probably wouldn't have perceived the cyclist - 100 feet away and presumably not exceeding the speed limit - as an immediate hazard since presumably he was able to see them in the crosswalk and use that 100 feet to either brake to a stop before the crosswalk or at least slow down sufficiently to maneuver around them.

I'm trying hard not to judge this guy and to wait for the police investigation to be completed, but as these facts become public maintaining neutrality is getting more and more difficult.
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