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-   -   Student hit by SUV cited for riding on the sidewalk (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/811754-student-hit-suv-cited-riding-sidewalk.html)

mikeybikes 04-16-12 09:17 PM

Student hit by SUV cited for riding on the sidewalk
 
From: http://www.9news.com/news/article/26...g-on-sidewalk-

Quote:

Hoad's had a lot of visits from friends, but the biggest surprise visit came from a Denver Police officer who gave her a traffic citation.

...

Denver Police did not cite the driver of the SUV involved in the crash.
Interesting.

dynodonn 04-16-12 09:29 PM

Talk about adding insult to injury, aren't motorists supposed to proceed slowly,look both ways when crossing a sidewalk/driveway, and not act like it's a freeway on ramp. I'm surprised that the motorist was not cited for an unsafe crossing/turning movement.

Commodus 04-16-12 09:36 PM

I'm with the cops on this one.

Rx Rider 04-16-12 09:52 PM

busy day in Colorado, 11 year old girl hit twice on a bicycle crossing the street in a crosswalk.
11-year-old-seriously-hurt-in-bike-car-crash-

mtbikerinpa 04-16-12 10:03 PM

My sister got ticketed for that in Ohio, no colisions though fortunately.

WickedThump 04-16-12 11:27 PM

Most of the municipalities around Denver prohibit riding a bike on a sidewalk or crosswalk. One is supposed to get off and walk the bike in those areas.

Digital_Cowboy 04-17-12 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeybikes (Post 14106958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 14107004)
Talk about adding insult to injury, aren't motorists supposed to proceed slowly,look both ways when crossing a sidewalk/driveway, and not act like it's a freeway on ramp. I'm surprised that the motorist was not cited for an unsafe crossing/turning movement.

Why do I think that even IF Hoad had been out in the travel lane that she would have still been hit by the SUV, and that the driver of the SUV still wouldn't have been issued a ticket?

jakub.ner 04-17-12 04:33 AM

Good. Maybe in restrospect she can figure out for herself why it's illegal.

ItsJustMe 04-17-12 05:37 AM

No argument with the cops on that one. She must have not only ridden on the sidewalk but also blown straight into the intersection. You can't expect car drivers to look out for everything, and this is one of the big reasons why sidewalk riding is illegal.

mikeybikes 04-17-12 06:41 AM

While I agree, it is a bad idea to ride on the sidewalk and is illegal in the area, I still don't agree that it absolves the motorist of all responsibility. Motorists should still be responsible for making sure their path is clear when crossing sidewalks.

This is one of the few cases too where the motorist actually stuck around helped the cyclist. That had to have looked good for the motorist.

flipped4bikes 04-17-12 07:02 AM

In a weird way, it's the new retort to "Get on the sidewalk!".

twinquad 04-17-12 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 14107488)
Why do I think that even IF Hoad had been out in the travel lane that she would have still been hit by the SUV, and that the driver of the SUV still wouldn't have been issued a ticket?

It might be fun to indulge your request for psychoanalysis, but I'll restrain myself and simply observe that drivers are generally pretty attentive to traffic that is present where they expect it to be.

nelson249 04-17-12 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeybikes (Post 14107860)
While I agree, it is a bad idea to ride on the sidewalk and is illegal in the area, I still don't agree that it absolves the motorist of all responsibility. Motorists should still be responsible for making sure their path is clear when crossing sidewalks.

This is one of the few cases too where the motorist actually stuck around helped the cyclist. That had to have looked good for the motorist.

I agree. That being said I'd be curious to know how fast the cyclist was travelling on the sidewalk.

rydabent 04-17-12 08:05 AM

Well common sense says it is just plain stupid to give the cyclist a ticket. BTW the driver should have been given the ticket for unsafe entry into traffic!!!

Rx Rider 04-17-12 08:48 AM

the parking lot the SUV left from is slightly elevated and hidden from view, which makes the sidewalk hidden as well. the street is narrow and busy. those involved could have done better but the situation is not black and white.
sidewalks have long been launching pads for cars and conjested streets worry the less than average cyclist. put the two together and . . .
I'm a little bitter about the pickup driver that hit the kid in the crosswalk, this is black and white, you're suppose to look for people in that situation! schools preach crosswalk usage for a reason. but then I call my town Fort Dicks for a reason.

dynodonn 04-17-12 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rx Rider (Post 14108348)
the parking lot the SUV left from is slightly elevated and hidden from view, which makes the sidewalk hidden as well. the street is narrow and busy. those involved could have done better but the situation is not black and white.
sidewalks have long been launching pads for cars and conjested streets worry the less than average cyclist. put the two together and . . .
I'm a little bitter about the pickup driver that hit the kid in the crosswalk, this is black and white, you're suppose to look for people in that situation! schools preach crosswalk usage for a reason. but then I call my town Fort Dicks for a reason.

The officer issuing the cyclist the ticket seems to think so. :mad:

twinquad 04-17-12 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeybikes (Post 14107860)
This is one of the few cases too where the motorist actually stuck around helped the cyclist.

Is this actually rare? Can you provide some statistics?

mikeybikes 04-17-12 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinquad (Post 14108456)
Is this actually rare? Can you provide some statistics?

Probably not all that rare. Just seems like there are more hit and run stories in the news regarding cyclists. We probably, of course, only hear about them because of the hit and run.

ItsJustMe 04-17-12 12:53 PM

Without having witnessed the incident it's hard to say, but it's entirely possible that the motorist is pretty much completely without blame. IF a cyclist is proceeding at a normal bicycle speed of 10+ MPH on a sidewalk, she could move from 20 or 30 feet from the intersection area into the intersection between the time that the motorist does the final check on the sidewalk until they meet.

The motorist does need to be aware of pedestrians proceeding into the traffic area from the sidewalk, but generally looking to within a 10 foot square box at the intersection should be enough. The motorist is also charged with keeping track of possible pedestrians IN two separate crosswalks when making a turn, plus vehicular traffic and possible wrong-way riders. At some point you just have to draw the line and say that it's not reasonable to expect the motorist to keep track of some things. People traveling at more than double the expected speed for sidewalk traffic and proceeding into the traffic area without stopping is one such thing.

It's also possible that the view of the sidewalk is obstructed by buildings, signs or other things.

CB HI 04-17-12 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe (Post 14109505)
Without having witnessed the incident it's hard to say, but it's entirely possible that the motorist is pretty much completely without blame. IF a cyclist is proceeding at a normal bicycle speed of 10+ MPH on a sidewalk, she could move from 20 or 30 feet from the intersection area into the intersection between the time that the motorist does the final check on the sidewalk until they meet.

No intersection, DRIVEWAY. Drivers are REQUIRED to STOP and ensure it is safe before crossing a sidewalk from a driveway.

Quote:

She was biking on the sidewalk, heading west on Asbury Avenue toward University Boulevard, when she says an SUV leaving a parking lot crossed the sidewalk in a hurry.
Cop should have given the motorist a ticket as well.

Commodus 04-17-12 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 14110912)
No intersection, DRIVEWAY. Drivers are REQUIRED to STOP and ensure it is safe before crossing a sidewalk from a driveway.

Cop should have given the motorist a ticket as well.

I don't think it's reasonable to require a driver to look for something that isn't allowed to be there.

When I drove, I encountered tons of driveways in which it would have been thoroughly impossible to see a cyclist at an adequate distance, moving at normal speed, due to various obstructions. This is why cycling on sidewalks is illegal.

CB HI 04-17-12 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 14110994)
I don't think it's reasonable to require a driver to look for something that isn't allowed to be there.

When I drove, I encountered tons of driveways in which it would have been thoroughly impossible to see a cyclist at an adequate distance, moving at normal speed, due to various obstructions. This is why cycling on sidewalks is illegal.

But running at 10 mph is legal. If the motorist hit the cyclist as he "crossed the sidewalk in a hurry", he would have also hit a runner. The motorist broke the law just like the cyclist broke the law and they both deserved tickets.

The motorist would have likely run over an electric wheelchair as well. Do you think the motorist should watch for electric wheelchairs and be held acountable if they run over them?

Wake 04-17-12 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe (Post 14107694)
...You can't expect car drivers to look out for everything...

Yes, you can, and several European countries do just that. A car driver may be assumed responsible unless evidence is provided otherwise.

Let me pose an example: I am driving in your neighborhood where YOUR kids play. Do you still maintain that I can freely speed through YOUR neighborhood, and put YOUR KIDS at risk?

Rx Rider 04-17-12 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 14110994)
This is why cycling on sidewalks is illegal.

that's a big problem in Colorado every city has a different rule. in Pueblo I was yelled at by cops that said ride on the sidewalk. in Denver I was yelled at by cops because I rode on the sidewalk. in some cities it's ok to ride on the sidewalks but not "downtown", all two blocks of it. there should either be a general rule or at least signage to state the rule. the girl that got hit didn't know she couldn't ride there. mind you it's okay for the Denver cops on bikes to ride where ever they please.

Commodus 04-17-12 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 14111233)
But running at 10 mph is legal. If the motorist hit the cyclist as he "crossed the sidewalk in a hurry", he would have also hit a runner. The motorist broke the law just like the cyclist broke the law and they both deserved tickets.

The motorist would have likely run over an electric wheelchair as well. Do you think the motorist should watch for electric wheelchairs and be held acountable if they run over them?

Hmm well to be honest I sort of automatically consider 25-30 km/h to be 'normal' speed for a cyclist.

Given that it was a college girl riding on a sidewalk, you are far more likely to be correct in your speed estimation.

I think you're right, the driver should have been cited. The driver should have come to a complete stop, and crept out. That's exactly what I did when I drove, and would almost certainly have avoided this accident.


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