Mos6502

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1519881.html

"Speaking at an event at the Commonwealth Club of California earlier this year, San Francisco Mayor Ed Lee said his office was working in a very deliberate way with SFPD to increase enforcement of vehicular safety issues at a number of problem intersections."

Maybe that's it. Or perhaps they had more recent inspiration for a crack down on red light running cyclists...

phoebeisis

For some reason the article doesn't mention the recent bike pedestrian death-the death is behind this crackdown
Maybe I just missed it?

SactoDoug

Except what he did was both legal and safe. Legally, if any part of your vehicle is in the intersection when the light turns red, you are required to complete your trasition through the intersection according to California State law. A red light violation is when your vehicle enters the intersection after the light turns red.

From a safety point of view, when the light turns yellow you are supposed to stop only if you are able to safely stop before entering the intersection. Otherwise you are supposed to continue through the intersection. Being 3/4 of the way through the interseciton when it turns red tells me he was either already in the intersection or moving too fast to safely stop before entering the intersection.

Mos6502

It is mentioned without mentioning it.

"'The question is: how do we create a thoughtful enforcement approach based on data and not headlines,' Shahum told said, referring to a pair of fatal high-profile cyclist vs. pedestrian accidents that generated a whirlwind of media attention over the past year."

genec

I wonder how many peds are killed by motorists each year in SF.

Mos6502

According to somebody on this forum, 17. I don't know what the source was though.

unterhausen

if they started doing this where I lived, I would be calling 911 on every close pass or obnoxious use of the horn. Really putting the priorities in the wrong place.

unterhausen

the article doesn't talk about fatalities, but does say this:

kalliergo 

17 peds killed last year is correct -- 14 by private autos, two by Muni, one by a cyclist. Three cyclists were also killed by motor vehicles, as were eight occupants of vehicles. 27 total fatalities in motor vehicle crashes.

About three peds are struck by cars every day.

WalkSF keeps track of these things: https://walksf.org/in-the-news/. So does the SFPD, although they sometimes under-count (they missed four dead peds in their first report for 2011).

kalliergo 

A pedestrian was killed a few hours ago in San Francisco, by a turning gasoline tanker.

Take a look at the comments on SFGate, the website of the San Francisco Chronicle:

https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2012/05/17/BAGT1OJPAN.DTL&plckItemsPerPage=50&plckSort=TimeStampAscending&plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:7e8b0dc e-9426-4d77-9c09-d38e7f4292da

Episode 7,234 of "Let's Blame the Victim!"

Mos6502

And if he'd been hit by a cyclist all hell would break loose again.

dynodonn 

OK, now SFPD needs to start making all tanker truck drivers high on their ticketing campaign.

bluegoatwoods

When I lived in San Francisco (early-mid 1980s) I was a bicycle messenger. There was a subset of messengers who cultivated a 'gonzo' image; looked and acted wild, talked about enjoying running down pedestrians, etc. Every now and then one would hurt or at least frighten some little old lady and the police would then talk about 'cracking down on these wild messengers'.

Watching them, though, I noticed that they didn't bother the wild ones. Instead I'd see them pullover some girl who wore a helmet through the day as she worked her way through school. Stuff like that. This -plus a few other chicken-shot incidents- made me come to the opinion that the SFPD had a large number of cowardly bullies in their ranks.

I wonder if they've gotten any better?

kalliergo 

Well, SFPD is far from the worst big city force in this regard, but all forces have plenty of bullies -- they're attracted to the job.

For the most part, these cops have no interest in hassling cyclists. When orders come down from above telling them to "crack down," the girl working her way through school, or the guy who didn't clear the intersection fast enough for the cop's liking, is just a lot easier to stop and ticket than a full-fledged loony ninja. Even with modern technology and motorcycle officers, a determined fugitive cyclist is really hard to catch on city streets.

eja_ bottecchia

I always thought that SF was very bike friendly, especially considering the fact that geography, i.e., hills, make it harder for some to ride in SF.

phoebeisis

So 14/1 pedestrian deaths Cars vs bikes. REALLY THAT BAD!!!??? Per mile traveled this makes bikes look like oldster killing machines.
Tiny sample-I'm assuming nationally 14/1 isn't the ratio??
Anyone have national numbers car pedestrian deaths vs bicycle pedestrian deaths.
Guessing most bike pedestrian deaths are of oldsters- fragile,less agile slower-like the recent SF death.
Now serious injuries should be much more favorable for bikes-lotta car pedestrian injuries.

Anyone have national numbers?
Here are some recent NYNY numbers-it is a pedestrian biking city-waaaay more than average walking/riding.
"In New York City, four pedestrians were killed in bike-pedestrian accidents from 2001-2005. From 2006-2010, while cycling in the city doubled, three pedestrians were killed in such accidents.Found some numbers"
Also 130 pedestrian killed by MV in 2011-think this doesn't include bike riders

NYNY cars vs bike 130/1 or 151/1
Not sure if any of the 21 bike deaths were single vehicle-run into wall, parked cars, fell off bike-didnt say-might have been 2-3 maybe
This NYNY >100/1 kill ratio seems about right-SF 14/1 must be just a blip for last year

NYNY 21 bicycle riders killed 2011-perhaps the increased deaths are due to texting while driving?
NYNY 13 bicycle riders killed 2009

kalliergo 

No. There have been two cyclist-caused ped deaths in the past two calendar years, but nobody remembers (or has found, AFAIK) when the last one before that might have been, anywhere in the Bay Area. Just for rough comparison, about a hundred peds a year are killed in Bay Area crashes.

(I don't think, BTW, that miles of travel is a particularly useful statistic to use when comparing bikes, peds, motorists, etc. But that's for another thread.)

I hope someone can find and share those numbers, but I don't think anyone keeps track of them -- I've been looking for some time.

If the bike-caused-crash numbers are anything like the overall numbers, oldsters and children are at much higher risk of death as peds than other age groups.

Digital_Cowboy

Uh, why don't they apply the same logic to motor vehicle v cyclist or pedestrian crashes?

As we know there are more crashes involving motor vehicles of all sorts v cyclist/pedestrian then there are cyclist v cyclist or cyclist v pedestrian crashes. So why aren't they cracking down on motorists?

work4bike

San Fran seems like such a wonderful place to live (sarcasm).

Everytime I read an article from SF I look at the comments, comments in general (where ever you read them) are negative, but seems especially so in SF and it's not just the comments section, it's in the reporting and interviews on the street in video feeds... Not something I'd expect from a city that protects the rights of gold fish.

phoebeisis

I would guess people who live in SF like living there?
Decent weather-cops aren't too rough- crime not too bad-and isn't the economy not too bad there-relatively speaking?
Why wouldn't they like living there?

kalliergo 

John, for some reason, the comments sections of SFGate stories are dominated by really hateful anti-cycling and anti-pedestrian voices. They reflect cultural trends in our nation as a whole more than in San Francisco itself. I'm pretty sure that a majority of the posters don't live in the City.

That said, traffic conflicts in San Francisco are horrendous. That's pretty much inevitable when you put 800,000 people in 47 hilly square miles -- and allow many thousands more to commute in from the suburbs daily via private automobile.

Cars just don't work well in cities and they make them a dangerous, noisy mess for everyone. San Francisco is a poster child for that truth, which should be glaringly obvious, but most Americans live in a cultural trance that makes it invisible -- and inconceivable.

Leaving the traffic mess aside, we have one of the most awesome small cities on the planet, IMHO. Come see us. 16 million visitors a year might not be wrong.

phoebeisis

Heck NYNY folks apparently like living there(crummy climate, overcrowded, rough cops, rude fellow citizens),so why wouldn't SF folks like their city.
They both claim good food-could be described as walking cities- Big Economies-cultural centers.
However lots of folks choose to commute-usually an indication that it is expensive to live there-
In the USA many folks DON'T want to live close to their fellows. Heck the rich citizens in these "livable cities" buy large very expensive apts-with doormen and guards to keep the poor at bay.

They live in wealthy enclaves-Manhattan- with well paid thuggish cops to keep them safe.They then sneer at the suburbs.
If you are affluent cities are just fine- ask the not so affluent how much they like living close to their not affluent fellows.

Cars and suburbs aren't just a bill of goods-cars and cheap fuel(need both) allowed middle class folks to get the heck away from crowded cities.

We-USA- love cars
Everyone who can own a car-China- buys a car.Heck Manhattan they sneer at cars-and promptly rent them everyday-taxis.And the vaunted public transportation-REQUIRES A SEPARATE POLICE FORCE-nice.
People LOVE cars-they love mobility-freedom
The fuel price increase will probably end car culture to some extent.
Rant over- by most accounts SF is a nice city-nice to live in-decent food-decent climate-cops not bad-fellow citizens not too violent or intrusive- not as "west coast" as LA.

kalliergo 

Yup. But nobody loves them in cities.

They don't fit, you see, despite the fact that American cities routinely dedicate half of their land area to cars and associated uses. Imagine that.

There's really no question. It will. Only the timing is uncertain.

Pretty good rant.

work4bike

Thanks for not taking me too seriously, need more of that

I do plan to spend some of my money in that city one day. Lot of crazy things I hear coming out of SF, but hey, need some variety in life.

kalliergo 

They're all true, I promise.