no passing zones and passing traffic on empty two lane highways
Some observations from my ride today got me wondering about how other riders are treated by traffic when people are riding in a no passing zone and it's clear for the motorists to pass.
What's everyone's experience with traffic and solid double yellow lines? Anyone have much success preventing high speed traffic from passing in a no passing zone when the road is clear? |
Depends on the state..
Some states allow crossing a double yellow line when passing slower moving traffic. (believe it or not) HOWEVER, if it's posted as a "No passing zone" (or equivalent) you can't. |
In my state (CO) it is legal to pass cyclists in "no passing" zones.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
(Post 14275997)
...Anyone have much success preventing high speed traffic from passing in a no passing zone when the road is clear?
Anyway, I believe it is legal to drive to the left of a double-yellow in OR to pass a bike, or at least that bike-lawyer Thomas in PDX has published opinions to that effect. Now if only a few more of the cagers would just wait until it is clear to attempt to pass, life would be so much better. |
I don't think I'd recommend an attempt to stop them from passing. Even if it is illegal, that's not really your problem. Though I can imagine the cager trying to blame you.
All in all, though, it's best for them to make their pass and get on by us as quickly as possible. |
The sooner a car safely passes you the safer you will be. If you can do anything to make it easier for them the pass, without endangering yourself, so much the better.
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Originally Posted by bluegoatwoods
(Post 14276267)
I don't think I'd recommend an attempt to stop them from passing. Even if it is illegal, that's not really your problem. ...
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My guess is this is an attempted jab in the ribs of those cyclist who would prefer to see FRAP go away in favor of SMV laws (carry over from other thread in which almost no one agrees with Bek). In Florida and likely other states, under SMV law, when clear and safe it is legal to cross the double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle regardless of the lane position of the SMV. Certainly if done safely, the cops are not going to bother the passing motorist. I am sure it happens frequently in states with lots of horse drawn buggies.
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
(Post 14276246)
I'm not sure why I would want to prevent someone from passing me when the road is clear.
Anyway, I believe it is legal to drive to the left of a double-yellow in OR to pass a bike, or at least that bike-lawyer Thomas in PDX has published opinions to that effect. Now if only a few more of the cagers would just wait until it is clear to attempt to pass, life would be so much better. On one of the stretches of the roads that I ride on a regular basis, there are not only the double yellow lines, BUT those black and white "no passing zone" signs AND sharrows painted on the road about mid-lane. And I have been passed in that zone. It's a slight downhill grade and it isn't very hard for me to get within 5 or so MPH of the posted speed limit of 35MPH. And no I haven't been passed at that speed, but if I'm within 10MPH of the posted limit I have been passed. I'd also wager that this stretch of road is no wider than 20' from edge-to-edge. |
around here, they have been driving around putting double yellow lines everywhere. Fortunately, the new cyclist passing law makes it legal to pass if it's safe even if there are double yellow lines
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Originally Posted by bluegoatwoods
(Post 14276267)
I don't think I'd recommend an attempt to stop them from passing. Even if it is illegal, that's not really your problem. Though I can imagine the cager trying to blame you.
All in all, though, it's best for them to make their pass and get on by us as quickly as possible. Title 21 Subtitle 3 Section 307 § 21-307. No-passing zones (a) Establishment of zones; signs and markings. -- The State Highway Administration may determine those parts of any highway in its jurisdiction where overtaking and passing or driving on the left of the roadway would be especially dangerous and, by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway, may indicate the beginning and end of these zones. Where the signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant individual, every driver of a vehicle shall obey their directions. (b) Driving on left prohibited -- In general. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of the roadway within the no-passing zone. (c) Driving on left prohibited -- Left side of pavement striping designed to mark no-passing zones. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark the no-passing zone throughout its length. (d) Left turns. -- The driver of a vehicle may drive across the left side of the roadway in a no-passing zone while making a left turn, but only if it is safe to do so. The gibberish is saying that anyone can pass whenever and whereever they darn well want to. Because I have yet to see a 'No Passing Zone' sign anywhere in the county. I was on a two-lane blacktop earlier today. I was 'taking the lane', basically making the traffic behind me, cross over the double-yellow line to pass. While that may sound insane, by the motorist behind me having to cope with passing in front of oncoming traffic, means they will pass faster. Not only avoiding a collision with the oncoming traffic. But also, getting off my tail faster. |
I dont care what the cagers do while Im riding so long they dont hit me, force me off the road, throw stuff at me, or hinder my enjoyment in any other way.
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Originally Posted by CB HI
(Post 14276742)
.... In Florida and likely other states, under SMV law, when clear and safe it is legal to cross the double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle regardless of the lane position of the SMV. Certainly if done safely, the cops are not going to bother the passing motorist. I am sure it happens frequently in states with lots of horse drawn buggies.
********** Florida law doesn't allow passing in no passing zones. However, cyclists are frequently, even consistently passed across double yellows in Florida. This is the common, default motorist behavior everywhere despite the law - if the road is clear, motorists pass bicyclists in no passing zones. Every state prohibits passing in no passing zones. A few states allow it to pass bicyclists. |
Originally Posted by Chris516
(Post 14276984)
In Maryland, the Annotated Code says in:
Title 21 Subtitle 3 Section 307 § 21-307. No-passing zones (a) Establishment of zones; signs and markings. -- The State Highway Administration may determine those parts of any highway in its jurisdiction where overtaking and passing or driving on the left of the roadway would be especially dangerous and, by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway, may indicate the beginning and end of these zones. Where the signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant individual, every driver of a vehicle shall obey their directions. (b) Driving on left prohibited -- In general. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of the roadway within the no-passing zone. (c) Driving on left prohibited -- Left side of pavement striping designed to mark no-passing zones. -- Except as provided in subsection (d) of this section, where signs or markings defining a no-passing zone are placed as provided in subsection (a) of this section, a driver may not drive on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark the no-passing zone throughout its length. (d) Left turns. -- The driver of a vehicle may drive across the left side of the roadway in a no-passing zone while making a left turn, but only if it is safe to do so. The gibberish is saying that anyone can pass whenever and whereever they darn well want to. Because I have yet to see a 'No Passing Zone' sign anywhere in the county. I was on a two-lane blacktop earlier today. I was 'taking the lane', basically making the traffic behind me, cross over the double-yellow line to pass. While that may sound insane, by the motorist behind me having to cope with passing in front of oncoming traffic, means they will pass faster. Not only avoiding a collision with the oncoming traffic. But also, getting off my tail faster. its more commonly recognized sharing the road by riding safely right equates with smoother, faster passing. |
what does "safely right" mean in a substandard lane? Most rural roads have substandard lanes and there is no such thing as "safely right." They have been painting double yellows on rural roads because motorists are too willing to risk their lives and the lives of others when they can't see if a pass is safe. For some reason, we managed to dive on these same roads without double yellows for decades. In the same situation, it's safe to pass a cyclist much more often than it is another car. This whole double yellow conundrum is of recent vintage and predicated on the only road users being motorists. It really shouldn't concern us much if motorists pass us on a double yellow, I encourage it.
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
(Post 14277625)
what does "safely right" mean in a substandard lane? Most rural roads have substandard lanes and there is no such thing as "safely right." They have been painting double yellows on rural roads because motorists are too willing to risk their lives and the lives of others when they can't see if a pass is safe. For some reason, we managed to dive on these same roads without double yellows for decades. In the same situation, it's safe to pass a cyclist much more often than it is another car. This whole double yellow conundrum is of recent vintage and predicated on the only road users being motorists. It really shouldn't concern us much if motorists pass us on a double yellow, I encourage it.
bicyclists excepted from sharing 'substandard width lane' doesn't mean there's no position safely right, or that roads with narrow lanes can't and shouldn't be shared, unterhausen...... substandard width provisions are legal allowances for bicyclists to take and control narrow lanes if necessary for their safety. Bicyclist specific substandard width provisions codify a bicyclist is legally allowed to control a narrow lane if reasonably necessary for safety. "BIKES need not FRAP in a narrow lane" doesn't equate to a riding style where bicyclists unremittingly ride the center stripe on every rural highway, and I'm sure you recognize that, unterhausen. There's no encouragement needed about passing bicyclists on solid double yellows, it's the default behavior of motorists everywhere regardless of state laws allowing or prohibiting it. |
I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass? More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass. Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass. People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down. VCers always assume the best of drivers?? We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull? And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane?? How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won't even see you-and you'll be where they are "steering"-BAM! Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren't where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes. |
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
(Post 14277745)
I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass? More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass. Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass. People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down. VCers always assume the best of drivers?? We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull? And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane?? How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won't even see you-and you'll be where they are "steering"-BAM! Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren't where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes. |
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
(Post 14277745)
I've never understood why VCers think "taking a lane" will earn them a a wider pass?
We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull? |
Originally Posted by Bekologist
(Post 14277718)
bicyclists excepted from sharing ‘substandard width lane’ doesn’t mean there’s no position safely right, or that roads with narrow lanes can’t and shouldn’t be shared, unterhausen...... substandard width provisions are legal allowances for bicyclists to take and control narrow lanes if necessary for their safety. Bicyclist specific substandard width provisions codify a bicyclist is legally allowed to control a narrow lane if reasonably necessary for safety.
Originally Posted by Bekologist
(Post 14277718)
”BIKES need not FRAP in a narrow lane” doesn’t equate to a riding style where bicyclists unremittingly ride the center stripe on every rural highway, and I’m sure you recognize that, unterhausen.
Originally Posted by Bekologist
(Post 14277718)
There’s no encouragement needed about passing bicyclists on solid double yellows, it’s the default behavior of motorists everywhere regardless of state laws allowing or prohibiting it.
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis
(Post 14277745)
I’ve never understood why VCers think “taking a lane” will earn them a wider pass?
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
(Post 14277745)
Less room to the left means less room to give a wide pass?
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
(Post 14277745)
More likely the driver will gun it up and make a really close pass. Or wait-pissed-and make an intentionally close pass. People-many people-are bad drivers-and they are pissed off before you slow them down. VCers always assume the best of drivers??
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
(Post 14277745)
We really need to survey them to find out where they live-college towns-NYNY-SF- LA- places where bike riders have some pull? And now drivers text-barely watching the road-just holding their car in the middle of the lane?? How is that going to work out for VCers?? They-texters-won’t even see you-and you’ll be where they are “steering”-BAM! Sure texters can hit FRAPERS- but it is slightly less likely since we aren’t where they are vaguely aiming in between key strokes.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
(Post 14277533)
**********
Florida law doesn't allow passing in no passing zones. However, cyclists are frequently, even consistently passed across double yellows in Florida. 316.0875 No-passing zones.—(1) The Department of Transportation and local authorities are authorized to determine those portions of any highway under their respective jurisdiction where overtaking and passing or driving to the left of the roadway would be especially hazardous and may, by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway, indicate the beginning and end of such zones, and when such signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant person, every driver of a vehicle shall obey the directions thereof. (2) Where signs or markings are in place to define a no-passing zone as set forth in subsection (1), no driver shall at any time drive on the left side of the roadway with such no-passing zone or on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark such no-passing zone throughout its length. (3) This section does not apply when an obstruction exists making it necessary to drive to the left of the center of the highway, nor to the driver of a vehicle turning left into or from an alley, private road or driveway. (4) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318. History.—s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 1, ch. 76-31; s. 111, ch. 99-248. Note.—Former s. 316.086. |
I'm not convinced I see a reason for this thread. Maybe I should add a poll to see how many people like to bottle traffic up behind them on "empty two lane highways"
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
(Post 14276776)
Uh, because presumably there is (or was) some reason why the city, county or state has designated a particular area of a particular street as a no passing zone.
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Digital said -"Do you have any stats to prove your conclusion that texters are “steering” their cars or that they’re more not less likely to hit a VCer who is taking the lane as opposed to riding FRAP?"
Good point- -I have as much hard data as you do-ZERO ! John Forester- I get the point-take the lane and they won't make the usual close shave 3 abreast pass. You VCers are petrified of the 3 wide pass! The whole point of "Taking a Lane" is to prevent the 3 wide shave. So,just how deadly is the 3 wide pass ? Heck just 700 riders a year die-(300,000,000 people) -I wonder how many die because of the 3 wide pass?? How many injured? Anyone have any numbers? Guesses? Plausible lies? |
Originally Posted by Bekologist
(Post 14277551)
I'm not sure how forcing motorists to break the law and cope with oncoming traffic translates into getting off your tail faster.
its more commonly recognized sharing the road by riding safely right equates with smoother, faster passing. |
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