EAA

Conan the Barbarian? Willie the Pimp? Andre the Giant? I guess I don't really know what you mean.

smasha

Carmine The Snake (Persico)
Sam The Plumber (DeCavalcante)
Johnny The Fox (Torrio)
Tony The Ant (Spilotro)
Harry The Hunchback (Riccobene)
Ralph The Barber (Daniello)
Ignazio The Wolf (Lupo)
Joe The Ghost (Pangallo)
Joe The Barber (Barbara)
Stephen The Rifleman (Flemmi)
Richie The Boot (Boiardo)
Joseph The Builder (Andriacchi)
Joseph The Animal (Barboza)
Frank The Spoon (Cucchiara)
Joe the Grocer (Catania)
Gregory The Grim Reaper (Scarpa)
Ferdinand The Shadow (Boccia)
Matty The Horse (Ianniello)
Benny The Bug (Ross)

If you borrowed a car from any of those people, and the car went missing, you'd be next.

eja_ bottecchia

Cut off both feet and hands...for starters.

beebe

Go back and read the next line after the quote: "It's over, justice was served," said Dave Nelson, Ashley Nelson's husband, who witnessed the crash that left his then-fiance unconscious and gurgling blood. "Now we can move on."

I don't have to spend a month with a victim's family. The victim's family in question is happy with the decision. Again, I agree that there might be a stricter punishment that is worth inflicting now that I know that his license was already revoked, but this constant appeal of "you don't know what it's like to be a victim(or know a victim)" is a bunch of crap. How about instead of locking away perpetrators of crimes, we try to do the hard thing and try to find a constructive way of correcting their behavior and reintegrating them into society where they can be productive. If you'd rather put an old man behind bars for the rest of his life, you may as well just take him out behind the courthouse with a rifle and put him down instead of paying for him to not have a life.

TScott27

I know of some cases where drivers who drive without license who get to hurt people on the road get sentenced and got to get out again, and would just be the same reckless drivers they were. There must be a concrete penalty that will make reckless and unlicensed drivers more mindful of motorists and innocent pedestrians.

sudo bike

Look, whether or not this was "enough" isn't really the point. It is never enough. You can put that man in prison for the rest of his life, or line him up and shoot him, and it will never bring that person back to the way they were. In the worst case where they died as a result of their poor judgment, it won't bring them back period. As someone who has lost someone as a result of someone else's actions, I can tell you that ultimately, having the book thrown at them doesn't help satisfy you very much. Putting him in jail for the rest of his life doesn't really accomplish anything unless you can determine that he simply can't live in society without being a menace, which I don't think can be done from this incident. People make mistakes. Yes, even really big mistakes that cause others to lose their lives or mental capacities. But removing them from society indefinitely because of vengeance and not necessity is, IMO, a mistake. But I digress...

Don't be mistaken: This was a win for cyclists. Too many people get off scot-free by just shrugging and saying "I didn't see him" or "I thought I hit a deer". He didn't. 3 years and a lifetime driving ban is almost unheard of. Whether or not you think it's "enough", be happy that he got what he did for now; even the victim's family was satisfied with the decision.

"Hey man, do you mind if I borrow your car to take my Grandma to the doctor?"
"Sure, dude! If I can just photocopy your license, and if you could just sign here, here, and here..."

Joking aside though, I don't think this will really accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

The victims can sue to make themselves whole, financially. They will never be made whole in any other respect.

Rollfast

Insurance is about INVESTING to be able to pay on $50,000 LIABILITY etc for a monthly payment of maybe less than $100. Unlicensed driving is a crime and it costs a lot to pay when they didn't take a policy and a license This is irresponsibility at it's next to worse stage, behind impairment.

From what the title said, this person got a just sanction and will do time. This is excellent.

Rollfast

The 'the' is there because the 'greats' had one name

Derringer
Capone
Scarface
Bugsy (Siegel, Moran and Malone)
Bonnie and Clyde

Some have two names

Pretty Boy (Floyd)
Joe Bananas (Bonanno)

Rollfast

grow up please

himespau 

same person

Mos6502

A lot of sociopaths in this thread...

DPN

"offence that, in and of itself, is not violent."

How is being knocked unconscious and "gurgling blood" not violent?

I never can understand how some of you folks are excusing this POS. Maybe you participate in these activities yourself, and think that could be you. Alcoholics like this don't care about laws, and even if his car was sold, he will be driving within a week. How many "slap on the wrist" DWIs does it take?

Go to a MADD meeting some time and see the destruction that these people, those who CHOOSE to drink and drive, can wreak on an innocent family. I say a society gets what a society tolerates, and until we get the "hand wringers" out of the way this problem will not go away. We'll just continue to have innocents being murdered by these losers. Stand up and say "ENOUGH"!

DPN

Mos6502

Excused him right into prison for three years.

beebe

You have completely failed to grasp what others in this thread are saying. It's not about punishment or vengeance and anything like that. It's not as simple as increasing penalties if things aren't working. Putting people in jail does not and will not be an effective deterrent for some people no matter how much harsher you try to get the laws to be. If your dog is misbehaving, you don't just beat him harder to get him to behave. Once the guy is in jail, who cares anyways? The story is over and you and everyone else will have forgotten about him in a few years time. When he gets out, will anyone be there to ask him if jail has made him sorry for his actions? No. Additionally, as was pointed out by another poster, you can't punish an offender to bring back what the victim has lost, unless the only thing lost was money. Ask most victims of intentional homicide about punishments handed down onto the perpetrators, and few will want courts to enact vengeance for them.

The type of language you use is very us vs. them. It doesn't help. The people who are making these poor decisions are also human beings, not some faceless enemy that we can combat by hating them enough. The people you call "hand wringers" don't oppose your idea on punishing everyone to the maximum extent because they are wusses, it's because they believe that there truly is a better and more productive way.

"Go to a MADD meeting some time and see..." No, you go. Don't act like just because someone doesn't agree with you that it's because they are completely ignorant of the situation. In this case alone, the victim's family was happy with the judgement handed down. There have been other cases where victim's families have been unhappy with decisions that they felt were too harsh. You are not the only person in the world who is able to comprehend how much it sucks to have a loved one die young.

smasha

the crime being discussed and commented on was driving without a valid license, NOT hit and run. hit and run is an inherently violent offence, and should be treated at least as severely as assault. driving without a license, OTOH is not, in and of itself, a violent offence.

prathmann

Most victims of homicide aren't very talkative.

sudo bike

Sheesh, way to take bad faith to the extreme . We're all cyclists here, man. No need to assume the worst of people just because they disagree with you.

I've never driven unlicensed. But I did grow up poor in a city with very, very poor public transit that just about necessitated driving if you wanted to hold a job that wasn't a 9-5 (which most jobs for the poor don't seem to be). I knew good people who were in some bad situations. Because we can theorize about this all we want, but the choice between driving unregistered/uninsured/without a license, and ending up on the street is no choice at all. Not everyone wears black hats and white hats to tell the good guys and bad guys apart. The real world has a lot more gray than you think it does. We've made our collective beds by being so car-reliant... now we have to deal with the consequences and lie in it.

Ahhh, OK. Say no more. It all makes sense now.



It's never enough. Who decides what is?

unterhausen

I'd really be satisfied with any punishment that made the perpetrator and others around them realize that they need to drive their vehicles safely or not at all. Sending people to jail doesn't seem to do that, but not sending them to jail certainly doesn't do that. It's a real problem.

squirtdad

this is when I think things like public shaming could make a difference i.e wear a sign in your neighborhood/club/school stating I was convicted of X and caused the following harm, or having to wear a bright , ugly jumpsuit for a long period of time, when ever outside of your domocile. the bright jumpsuit could be color coded.... based on offence. and i am talking years.... not hours or days. Required the inividual to have brightly flags on their car if they get a license bake to make it easily identifiable.

In relation to pedestiran and bicyling injures, I think making the convicted party walk or bike could make change...but it feels wrong to sentence a person to ride a bike.

Maybe community service careing for people injured would make a difference?

I like to hope, but some people are just to self centered for anything to get to them.

beyond that

DPN

Perhaps you are right.

Maybe if this were a true "accident" then I could be more forgiving, but it wasn't an accident. To my way of thinking this individual CHOSE to consume alcohol and operate a motor vehicle. This free will choice could have ended the life of an innocent victim. Was this an accident? Do you guys think this was an accident? Maybe I need to change what I consider to be an accident, but I was taught that if you ask "why" 5 times you'll usually get to the truth...

I never feel that that locking up criminals like this may act as a deterrent for others, however, as long as THIS guy is locked up then HE won't be causing any more "non violent" "accidents". It's not about vengeance as much as prevention.

I know I am not the only person in the world who is able to comprehend how much it sucks to have a loved one die. I didn't mean to come across that way, and I'm sorry if I did. But I'd sure hate to think that some total stranger that can't manage their alcohol consumption might kill or maim someone I care about, only to hear a muttered "sorry man" and a slap on the wrist "reminder" that probably won't be served anyway. Victims deserve more than that.

There is an expression that leopards seldom change their spots, and this guy will probably be back on the road in less than 3 years.

So what is the solution? If putting people away for violating society's laws is not the solution, then what should be done? Just tolerate it? Ignore it? Please don't say training or education is the answer, since these don't seem to work...

Doohickie

I'll invent one of those right away. :\

himespau 

Make sure it zaps him in the nuts. Hard. Hard enough to sterilize.

Doohickie

She's quite the hazard magnet, amirite?

SkippyX

When I lived in Huntsville, TX, there was a local judge that believed in shaming. If a kid was caught shoplifting the judge would sentence them to some term of probation, and as a part of that probation they were required to spend some amount of time walking around in front of the store from which they tried to steal while wearing a sandwich board which said "I am a thief. I stole from this store."

Whenever I had my kids in tow and I saw someone wandering around in front of a store wearing that sign I never missed an opportunity to drag my kids over to the offender and say "See? Laying aside the fact that stealing is wrong, this is what happens to thieves. How'd you like to be doing what he/she is doing?"

Eventually someone sued the judge and she was forced to stop sentencing people to public shamings of that sort. Most of the people in town supported her opinion and were disappointed about the ruling. AFAIK, she continues to be one of the most popular judges in Walker County and has gotten to the point where no one challenges her when she runs for reelection.

EDIT: The judge only sentenced people to do that if they were caught stealing some kind of BS item - cosmetics, a CD, that sort of thing. No one caught stealing food because they were hungry ever was sentenced to that kind of shaming.

beebe

That was a typo. It was meant to read "families of victims" instead of "victims". Although, in a sense, they are also victims of the act.