EAA

We went out for a group ride this morning, more of a social medium speed ride, on some two lane, sort of rural/lake country roads. I'm a pretty experience rider, my wife much less so but not reckless or incompetent, just less experienced. We were riding, not very fast, maybe 100 ft at most behind the next riders in our group when we came up to a an older couple going the same way as us. My wife went to pass them, yelled "on your left" or something similar, and the other lady almost immediately turned left without signaling or really looking back in front of her, trying to cross the road to a bike path entrance on the opposite side. They both went down, the other lady fell on top of my wife. Luckily no major injuries or damage, my wife had some road rash, a cut finger, and felt "jolted". The other lady seemed and said she was ok. My wifes bike has a bent handlebar, bent pedal cage and a few other very minor scuffs, but still rideable, the other bike seemed undamaged. I was probably 10 feet behind my wife when this all happened. Everybody present was very helpful and kind after the accident, which I'm very thankful for.

My take on this is, if you want to assign "fault", the other rider obviously didn't look before turning though she had presumably just been passed by about 20 other bikes in our group and had a verbal warning, so I'd put it on her. I also think that if I were in my wifes position, I probably would have been able to avoid the collision, just due to more experience. I think she was a little "frozen" by the sudden unexpected turn.

So I have two questions for you all - firstly just your take on this whole situation, secondly and more importantly, how can I help my wife (and me too) learn to deal with stuff like this in the future in a better way.

10 Wheels

Yelling, On Your Left, will cause Most new riders to turn or move Left.

Last week, after riding 46,000 miles I ran into my friend when he braked for a pot hole.
I went down. He never gave a warning that he was braking.

Your turn will come.....

B. Carfree

Slow rider, bike path entrance on the left side...It sounds like a case of insufficient situational awareness. I'm not saying your wife should have known the other rider was going to change direction abruptly, just that it should have been something she considered.

EAA

I've heard that before too, in this case they were planning to turn anyhow so not sure that had any cause/effect relationship. What do you think is a better way of warning before passing?

This sounds ominous, couild you elaborate please?

EAA

I agree, though I think they were going really slow anyhow. I was a little ways behind her and I didn't see the path entrance before they turned either, even though we were also going quite slowly. In hindsight I probably focus more than I should on what my wife is doing sometimes, because she is less experienced and I want to help her stay safe, but it probably does harm my general awareness a little.

I also don't think it excuses turning left across the road without looking.

CB HI

I would place the fault on the experienced riders in the group for not making absolutely sure everyone in the group was clear on all signals to be used during the ride and for not making the route clear to all before starting.

The other lady likely thought your wife was telling her that she needed to move left to the bike path right away.

prathmann

?? I saw no indication that anyone in the group was unclear on either signals or the route. The person who suddenly turned left wasn't a member of that group - and she probably also knew where she was going, it just wasn't the same place as the OP's group.

Hard to avoid some collisions when others make sudden direction changes without warning. The only suggestion I'd have would be to allow plenty of room when passing people who aren't part of your group. The minimum 3' separation recommended when passing cyclists should probably apply in this situation as well and might have given the OP's wife enough time to brake and/or turn and avoid the collision.

Chris516

You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!

I was thinking the same thing as I read it.

E.S.

You're misunderstanding the OP. They were on their route and used an appropriate announcement. The turning rider did not look back or signal.

And... how is this the wife's fault?

Chris516

10 Wheels meant that, just as your wife was felled by an inexperienced cyclist, the same will happen to you some day. Not in the intentional vein, but that an inexperienced cyclist will cause you to crash. It is just a sad fact of cycling. It would be like a motorist not knowing street signs like what a 'yield' sign meant.

RoadTire 

I tend to slow down, yell "PASSING" on your left - and make sure they give every indication they know I'm coming: like moving to the right, looking behind, or other unmistakeable indicators. Maybe I should get a bell though and not yell anything about "left." Maybe just "PASSING."

CB HI

Even if the other woman was not part of the same group, using "on your left" is confusing to many cyclist and pedestrians and causes as many problems as it likely prevents.

Even if the other woman was not part of the same group, "on your left" from another cyclist at the point the bike path entrance is on the left side of the road could be interpreted as get to the bike path quickly, especially when 'yelled'.

10 Wheels

[QUOTE=EAA;14396350]I've heard that before too, in this case they were planning to turn anyhow so not sure that had any cause/effect relationship. What do you think is a better way of warning before passing?

New riders often turn to look at you. I just wait till they are going straight , then pass then at a wide distance.



This sounds ominous, could you elaborate please?[/QUOTE]

You will know when you are on the road looking up, thinking, darn That was so Quick.

E.S.

There is no universal perfectly clear passing signal. It is the duty of a rider to look back and signal if necessary before turning, and to hold a straight line and not go left just because the hear the word. Would they go left if a car was approaching on the left?

The OP said that he could not see the bike path. Again, fault of the old lady rider who didn't look back before turning.

Paul Barnard

When I overtake, I assume the burden of the safe pass. I strive for a minimal speed differential.

EAA

I may not have made it totally clear, but the other rider wasn't part of our group. We were a little behind the rest of our group, not too far though as some noticed the crash right away and came back to help. There wasn't any confusion about the route or signals in our group. The other rider didn't signal that she was turning, it certainly would have helped if she had but still I honestly don't fault her entirely for that - I don't signal every turn myself, I do try if there's traffic, and especially for a less experienced biker it's probably hard to maintain full control with one hand while trying to signal. I do fault her for not looking - if it had been a car instead of a bike she would likely have been seriously injured.

I didn't mention it in the original post but afterward the other lady said she never heard my wife yell before the crash. I did hear it, I don't know, maybe the other lady was hard of hearing? I don't know what the best way to solve that would be - air horn? Seems like overkill. If she has a hearing problem, all the more reason to take a careful look before turning.

B. Carfree

It wasn't clear to me how far out in the lane the person being passed was and how much space the passing cyclist gave her. Was the slower rider hugging the fog line and the passing rider barely into the center of the lane? I would think that it is better to give as much space as possible when passing, even going over the center line if there is no oncoming or overtaking cars. That would allow for that extra fraction of a second for everyone to react prior to colliding. Of course, I'm a bit cautious and generally won't pass on a two lane road if there is either oncoming or overtaking traffic. (I'll use any excuse to loaf.)

EAA

I agree with all of this. I think we allowed plenty of space, at least 3 feet probably more like 6. I think more experience would have helped my wife avoid the crash, but she needs to ride to get the experience - catch 22.

EAA

That makes sense, I'm going to try some other phrase. Or something else entirely - it seems like half the bikes, joggers, dog walkers etc I encounter can't hear anything because they have an Ipod or something in their ears. I really don't have many ideas as to how to deal with that problem.

EAA

[QUOTE=10 Wheels;14396497]First part - yeah, maybe it's best to wait till you are absolutely *SURE* the passee knows you are there and what you are doing. On the other hand, it might take an awful long time to go anywhere, some people are truly oblivious!

Second part - agreed, done that a couple times but luckily only no injury / damage single bike falls. I'm hoping to beat the odds from here on out.

EAA

In this case I don't think she heard us at all, or at least it didn't register as someone passing her. And I'm glad it wasn't a car, she could easily have been killed. In the second part, I should have said that I didn't see it, as opposed to couldn't see it. From my point of view/perception it looked like an access road for a utility - at a glance the sign looked like the signs the electric company uses. I don't think either of us had been down this road ever before, in a bike, car or anything.

EAA

Yes, I try to also, to the extent I can.

It seems to me that when passing, if there's enough space, it would be better to get going and get past as quick as safely possible rather than lingering out in traffic and near another rider with unknown intentions.

EAA

The other rider was more or less on the fog line. I thought we had enough room, but apparently I was wrong.

Kurt Erlenbach

The other rider is mostly at fault but the lesson is, as in almost all bike crashes, that you can control what you do but you can't control what others do. When I pass another cyclist or pedestrian, I assume they're going to do something goofy and give them as much warning and as wide a berth as possible. A few close calls or collisions and that message come through lud and clear.

gcottay

My take on the situation is the same as yours.

When speed differentials are high I think all warnings verbal, bell, air horn etc cannot be replied upon.

I am very cautious to the point of wearing a virtual chicken suit when passing a rider who is doing very slowly. On the road I provide probably ten feet of clearance. When that's not possible I tend to slow way down.

IMHO the best way for your wife to deal with this is to continue riding and enjoying herself.